# Tommy guns - round vs. stick magazine **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 3, 2012, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tommy-guns-round-vs-stick-magazine/633507 "2012-09-03T01:56:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tommy-guns-round-vs-stick-magazine/633507/21 "2012-11-22T16:48:38Z")
Ah, Churchill, always marching to the beat of a different drum magazine. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tommy-guns-round-vs-stick-magazine/633507/22 "2012-11-22T18:19:23Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Not a single lecture on “magazine” vs. “clip”? > > Shameful What’s the point? By now anybody who interchanges them is being willfully ignorant, and I have better things to do than teach a pig to sing. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tommy-guns-round-vs-stick-magazine/633507/23 "2012-11-22T22:36:31Z")
> [@cmdrpiffle](#): > > Sighting down Naha ridge, I squeezed off the last 2 of my eight rounds at the bunker and was rewarded with the satisfying ping of the empty clip ejecting from my rifle… …telling everybody in earshot where you are and that your rifle is empty. If they can still hear, since a .30-06 is LOUD. ETA: And if they aren’t dead. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tommy-guns-round-vs-stick-magazine/633507/24 "2012-11-22T22:57:01Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Not a single lecture on “magazine” vs. “clip”? > > Shameful Here ya go. 😃 [http://www.thegunzone.com/clips-mags.html](http://www.thegunzone.com/clips-mags.html) ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2012, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tommy-guns-round-vs-stick-magazine/633507/25 "2012-11-23T02:01:18Z")
I don’t get all the confusion between clips and magazines. A clip is what you put the bullets into the gun with, and the magazine is what you read in the lobby at the dentist’s office!😃 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2012, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tommy-guns-round-vs-stick-magazine/633507/26 "2012-11-23T03:45:48Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > I don’t get all the confusion between clips and magazines. A clip is what you put the bullets into the gun with, and the magazine is what you read in the lobby at the dentist’s office!😃 Well, there you go. It’s like the .45 9mm argument. Being hit by a 9 mm round will piss you off. Being hit by a .45 will blow off an extremity or kill you. What’s to argue about? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tommy-guns-round-vs-stick-magazine/633507/27 "2012-11-23T18:49:45Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Well, there you go. > It’s like the .45 9mm argument. > Being hit by a 9 mm round will piss you off. > Being hit by a .45 will blow off an extremity or kill you. > What’s to argue about? > 🙂 Well, to be fair, it’s also true if you switch those around. I don’t care WHAT I get shot with, I’m not gonna be happy about it! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tommy-guns-round-vs-stick-magazine/633507/28 "2012-11-23T22:33:21Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > Well, to be fair, it’s also true if you switch those around. I don’t care WHAT I get shot with, I’m not gonna be happy about it! 😃 True enough. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tommy-guns-round-vs-stick-magazine/633507/29 "2012-11-24T19:04:32Z")
Off topic, were soldiers of any period expected to hang onto their spent magazines and refill them, or were they just issued with more full magazines. I just can’t remember seeing in film any soldier do anything but grab one from a pocket to replace an empty one, save for the start of Lord of War. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tommy-guns-round-vs-stick-magazine/633507/30 "2012-11-24T19:07:20Z")
> [@Pushkin](#): > > Off topic, were soldiers of any period expected to hang onto their spent magazines and refill them, or were they just issued with more full magazines. > > I just can’t remember seeing in film any soldier do anything but grab one from a pocket to replace an empty one, save for the start of Lord of War. You always need to load new ones. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tommy-guns-round-vs-stick-magazine/633507/31 "2012-11-24T19:39:17Z")
> [@Pushkin](#): > > Off topic, were soldiers of any period expected to hang onto their spent magazines and refill them, or were they just issued with more full magazines. > > I just can’t remember seeing in film any soldier do anything but grab one from a pocket to replace an empty one, save for the start of Lord of War. Sure, but you wait until the shooting stops to pick them up. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tommy-guns-round-vs-stick-magazine/633507/32 "2012-11-24T20:29:54Z")
Issuing ammo in magazines would be expensive, wasteful and an added logistical burden. Typically ammo is issued [in boxes](http://primages.colemans.com/1341.gif) and the soldiers load their own magazines. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tommy-guns-round-vs-stick-magazine/633507/33 "2012-11-24T21:57:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Sure, but you wait until the shooting stops to pick them up. 1. Draw a full mag. 2. Hold it up against the mag in your weapon, so that you’re holding both in the same hand. 3. Thumb the catch. 4. Pull the empty mag out, move your wrist an inch to the left, push the full mag in. 5. Put the empty mag in your ammo pouch. It takes some practice, but after a while it becomes second nature. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tommy-guns-round-vs-stick-magazine/633507/34 "2012-11-25T01:51:42Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > 1. Draw a full mag. > > 2. Hold it up against the mag in your weapon, so that you’re holding both in the same hand. > > 3. Thumb the catch. > > 4. Pull the empty mag out, move your wrist an inch to the left, push the full mag in. > > 5. Put the empty mag in your ammo pouch. > > It takes some practice, but after a while it becomes second nature. Lee Marvin had two taped together in _The Dirty Dozen._ ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tommy-guns-round-vs-stick-magazine/633507/35 "2012-11-25T05:11:36Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > 1. Draw a full mag. > > 2. Hold it up against the mag in your weapon, so that you’re holding both in the same hand. > > 3. Thumb the catch. > > 4. Pull the empty mag out, move your wrist an inch to the left, push the full mag in. > > 5. Put the empty mag in your ammo pouch. > > It takes some practice, but after a while it becomes second nature. In the Air Force, they teach us to reach for our new mag as we hit the release, then pull the new mag up and put it directly into the mag well. The old mag pretty much just lands in the dirt and stays there until the fighting is done. Then again, my job is a support job, rather than a combat arms job, so maybe they teach the security forces guys something different. But yeah, usually you get the ammo either in a case or in smaller boxes. If they come in the little boxes, they might be bound together in ten round clips. Fit a speed loader onto the lip of the empty magazine, fit the clip into the speed loader, and push the rounds off the clip into the magazine. You can load a magazine relatively quickly this way. The few times I’ve dealt with the smaller boxes with the clipped ammo, they came packed in a cheap bandoleer, so perhaps the idea was for the soldier to sling the ammo clips across his chest in the bandoleer, and use them to reload his magazines during a fight. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tommy-guns-round-vs-stick-magazine/633507/36 "2012-11-25T05:20:29Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > In the Air Force, they teach us to reach for our new mag as we hit the release, then pull the new mag up and put it directly into the mag well. The old mag pretty much just lands in the dirt and stays there until the fighting is done. Then again, my job is a support job, rather than a combat arms job, so maybe they teach the security forces guys something different. The training given infantry focuses on offense, rather than defense; the assumption is that you won’t end the fight in the same place they started it. You can’t just leave stuff lying on the ground with the hope you’ll pick it up later. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tommy-guns-round-vs-stick-magazine/633507/37 "2012-11-25T08:03:22Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > The training given infantry focuses on offense, rather than defense; the assumption is that you won’t end the fight in the same place they started it. You can’t just leave stuff lying on the ground with the hope you’ll pick it up later. Makes sense. In our case, the general advice given is “Keep your head down, keep their heads down with supressive fire, and make sure that someone has called for the cavalry as soon as possible.” ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tommy-guns-round-vs-stick-magazine/633507/38 "2012-11-25T08:26:57Z")
> [@Enola\_Straight](#): > > I would think, with a straight magazine, a soldier would just store the full and empty clips in pockets or holsters on his chest or pants. > > A bigger, round drum is a bit harder to store on your person. Not sure about the US, but Commonwealth forces had special pouches for them that went with the Pattern 1937 webbing gear issued to troops - but since the pouches were basically like a satchel, there was a practical limit to how many that could be carried, especially once the weight was factored in. Three or four (including the one in the gun) would seem to be about it. One other aspect I don’t believe has been touched on beyond the Wiki quote: A stick mag is a lot easier to load than a drum mag. Reloading a Thompson SMG drum mag involved taking the front off, loading all the cartridges into it (in a particular sequence), replacing the front cover, then winding a clockwork mechanism on the front (to work the follower and spring necessary to keep feeding the rounds into the breech). Also - and this would have been just as important from the military’s perspective - stick magazines are a lot cheaper and easier to make than drum magazines. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tommy-guns-round-vs-stick-magazine/633507.md?page=1)