# tomndebb, allowing racist hate speech was a bullshit mod call **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [August 12, 2015, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632 "2015-08-12T06:18:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/181 "2015-08-15T16:20:04Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Why should _I_ be the one who has to get in the back of the bus? Thought this thread has little humor in it. This made me cackle. Thanks! You cry “Racist hate speech”. People disagree and feel it more prudent to err on the side of free speech, and you’re back in the Jim Crow south? YEESH! ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/182 "2015-08-15T16:20:23Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > So are you going to be modding the statement that an entire group of people (of which I am a member) should be lined up against a wall and shot, then? Shot with what, military rifles or Super Soakers filled with pee? He continued that it was the same thing Marxists have historically done and would do again if given the chance. Have your Marxist friends historically shot blanks at people or shot them full of live ammo? If the only reason we all “know” his statement was unambiguously referring to murder is because that is EXACTLY what your co-ideologists have done in USSR, China, Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Cuba, et al, then it’s pretty clear he was referring to self-defense, which is not hate speech. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/183 "2015-08-15T16:45:24Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/184 "2015-08-15T16:52:52Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > If the only reason we all “know” his statement was unambiguously referring to murder is because that is EXACTLY what your co-ideologists have done in USSR, China, Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Cuba, et al, then it’s pretty clear he was referring to self-defense, which is not hate speech. Let’s clear this up then. Mods, is it kosher to preach the shooting of Marxists? Bonus points if you give an opinion as to it being: a) “hate speech” b) “self-defence” (as hilariously outlined by **Grotonian** ) c) “ **OpalCat** ” (Never knew her, but I do like the meme) ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/185 "2015-08-15T17:32:27Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Let’s clear this up then. Mods, is it kosher to preach the shooting of Marxists? > > Bonus points if you give an opinion as to it being: > a) “hate speech” > b) “self-defence” (as hilariously outlined by **Grotonian** ) > c) “ **OpalCat** ” (Never knew her, but I do like the meme) How about ISIS? They’re a group. Can I advocate shooting them before they behead me, or is that a hilariously ludicrous mockery of self-defense? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/186 "2015-08-15T18:31:17Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > 1. I then posted an awesome Thurber fable mocking people who scream that others should be ostracized for their speech. That’s an astonishing misread of the Thurber piece. You’re claiming that it’s about ostracizing other people because of their speech, in story in which the character who is ostracized, _never speaks_. Thurber’s story has nothing to do with respecting speech: it’s about the dangers of gossip and mob justice. You’ve actually managed to extract a moral from this fable that more wrong than the one that’s actually written into it. Thurber, no doubt, would be thrilled. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/187 "2015-08-15T18:53:51Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Fair enough, with that in mind, would you agree that Construct openly and explicitly calling for the Ethnic cleansing of Muslims was hate speech since it rather clearly states Muslims are “deserving harm”. . of course not… you know well this only applies to certain groupes and among them is not the muslims. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/188 "2015-08-15T19:12:29Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > That’s an astonishing misread of the Thurber piece. You’re claiming that it’s about ostracizing other people because of their speech, in story in which the character who is ostracized, _never speaks_. Thurber’s story has nothing to do with respecting speech: it’s about the dangers of gossip and mob justice. You’ve actually managed to extract a moral from this fable that more wrong than the one that’s actually written into it. Thurber, no doubt, would be thrilled. “[Nuh uh!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18603354&postcount=164)” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/189 "2015-08-15T19:36:57Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > How about ISIS? They’re a group. Can I advocate shooting them before they behead me, or is that a hilariously ludicrous mockery of self-defense? What I’m saying is that not even during the highest and drunkest times of “Red Scare” McCarthyism would the shooting of Communist party members be deemed as some sort of “preemptive self-defence.” The thought process to get to that result is simply humorous. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/190 "2015-08-15T19:37:49Z")
ETA: Eh, never mind - I should know better. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/191 "2015-08-15T19:46:22Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > That’s an astonishing misread of the Thurber piece. You’re claiming that it’s about ostracizing other people because of their speech, in story in which the character who is ostracized, _never speaks_. Thurber’s story has nothing to do with respecting speech: it’s about the dangers of gossip and mob justice. You’ve actually managed to extract a moral from this fable that more wrong than the one that’s actually written into it. Thurber, no doubt, would be thrilled. It doesn’t matter that he never speaks; hateful speech is attributed to him and he’s ostracized for it. It doesn’t matter if **Construct** said nothing hateful about Muhammad; hateful speech is attributed to him and people are clamoring for him to be ostracized. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/192 "2015-08-15T20:00:42Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > Shot with what, military rifles or Super Soakers filled with pee? He continued that it was the same thing Marxists have historically done and would do again if given the chance. > > Have your Marxist friends historically shot blanks at people or shot them full of live ammo? If the only reason we all “know” his statement was unambiguously referring to murder is because that is EXACTLY what your co-ideologists have done in USSR, China, Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Cuba, et al, then it’s pretty clear he was referring to self-defense, which is not hate speech. By that token I can call for all white people to be killed - after all, it’d be historic self defence :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/193 "2015-08-15T20:10:10Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > By that token I can call for all white people to be killed - after all, it’d be historic self defence :rolleyes: Exactly!!! Now you’re finally getting it! See how nice and easy that works? Then other people are free to discuss it or ignore you, but no one has to call for your banning. Black separatists don’t call for the deaths of whites, as far as I know, but they often advocate something tantamount to “ethnic cleansing” in the segregation of racial groups. Let 'em talk, you might learn something. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/194 "2015-08-15T22:08:09Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > It doesn’t matter that he never speaks; hateful speech is attributed to him and he’s ostracized for it. Couple of problems you’ve got there, chief among them that none of the things he’s accused are hateful speech. He’s accused of atheism, lack of patriotism, collusion with a foreign power, and sabotage. Those last two are straight up felonies. They’re things that are legitimately illegal. The moral of the fable is not that he was persecuted for doing something he should have been allowed to do, the moral is that he was persecuted for doing something he did not do at all. To the extent that the fable touches on free speech at all, it is in a fairly cynical way, given that it is the townfolk’s exercise of their own right to free speech that leads to an innocent gander being hounded from his home. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/195 "2015-08-15T22:29:52Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > So are you going to be modding the statement that an entire group of people (of which I am a member) should be lined up against a wall and shot, then? Are you planning to post such a thing? ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/196 "2015-08-15T23:26:34Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Are you planning to post such a thing? Such a thing has already been done. > [@Coontown on Reddit](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/coontown-on-reddit/725264/130): > > Marxists are an existential threat to our well being and way of life. Every single one of them should be lined up against the wall and shot, because that’s exactly what they’d do to us if they got into power. Might makes right, and we should crush our enemies before they do the same. > [@Construct: Are you for real?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/construct-are-you-for-real/727501/119): > > > [@Construct: Are you for real?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/construct-are-you-for-real/727501/116): > > > > What about us Marxists? > > Marxists have empirically shown that when they gain power, they have a tendency to kill their enemies. This has been proven in in the Soviet Union, in China, and in Cambodia. As someone who is certainly not a friend of Marxism, I have a vested interest in ensuring that Marxists don’t succeed. And I’d be better off it they were shot, because they’d do exactly the same to me. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/197 "2015-08-15T23:30:06Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Such a thing has already been done. I did not claim it had not. The question was in regards to future actions and I was curious whether he was looking to discover the ramifications of his own future behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/198 "2015-08-15T23:35:44Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I did not claim it had not. The question was in regards to future actions and I was curious whether he was looking to discover the ramifications of his own future behavior. I don’t understand. If it didn’t receive a note or a warning when Construct said it, why should Mr. Dibble be concerned if he were to say something similar? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2015, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/199 "2015-08-16T00:30:55Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I did not claim it had not. The question was in regards to future actions and I was curious whether he was looking to discover the ramifications of his own future behavior. Are you kidding? His question is obviously about YOUR future actions, not his, and about YOUR future actions regarding a post that you failed to moderate earlier. In the past. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2015, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/200 "2015-08-16T00:42:40Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Are you kidding? His question is obviously about YOUR future actions, not his, and about YOUR future actions regarding a post that you failed to moderate earlier. In the past. And I am clearly not going to make pronouncements about specific actions I may take in the future. And while I understand how the discussion moved to examining my particular response to a past action, I find it interesting that so many posters are concerned about my future actions when at least two other Mods have had the opportunity to address the posts under discussion, yet no one appears to care about their responses or lack. I have already noted the specific text in the Registration agreement that provides enough clarity to actually identify board prohibited hate speech. Since my objection to Modding hate speech was based on its vague nature, (based on the widely disparate nature of posts reported as hate speech), my future Modding on the topic is clear to anyone genuinely interested in that subject. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632.md?page=11)