# tomndebb, allowing racist hate speech was a bullshit mod call **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [August 12, 2015, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632 "2015-08-12T06:18:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/21 "2015-08-12T15:41:16Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Has this not always been the case? I don’t recall you starting any threads when Der Trihs was spewing his hate speech. Not only was **Der Trihs** not so “open” in the expression of his views, I would say that I can’t remember _any_ poster advocating _any_ extreme position who has been so “open” in comparison to this one. Whether that justifies mod action is, of course, the topic under debate. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/22 "2015-08-12T15:42:00Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Has this not always been the case? I don’t recall you starting any threads when Der Trihs was spewing his hate speech. DT was also twice the age of Construct and engaged in a ton of personal attacks. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/23 "2015-08-12T15:42:14Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Really?I shudder to think how you would treat those you actually _hated_. > [@MrDibble](#): > > This thread isn’t about Construct’s racism or lack thereof, it’s about tom’s rationale for not moderating said racism. Stop right now. MrDibble is correct. This is a question about moderation not about a poster. Any argument about (or from) the poster in question will be dealt with by warning for failure to follow mod direction. In case anyone is wondering, I don’t consider MrDibble to be junior modding since he was only clarifying the purpose of his thread. And he is correct. This is ATMB and not the place to argue with other posters about what they post. Take it to the Pit. Note: Not an ATMB mod but this was going to go downhill fast so I felt the need to put the brakes on. An ATMB mod may come on and modify my instructions as they see fit. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/24 "2015-08-12T15:43:42Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/25 "2015-08-12T15:49:33Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Ah, I thought it might have been about princess something or other in the weird and seemingly disappeared thread on ‘pinks’ and ‘blacks’ and 1848. I was very surprised to see tomdebb participating in that thread. I don’t mean that he shouldn’t act as a poster rather than a moderator. But if any thread called for moderation, that one did. The OP was either a troll or mentally off (more than the rest of us) and the thread was full of nonsensical hate speech. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/26 "2015-08-12T15:57:09Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > This thread isn’t about Construct’s racism or lack thereof, it’s about tom’s rationale for not moderating said racism. > > It reads to me as if the mods are saying (now that **Jonathan** **Chance** ’s also weighed in), as long as you’re not directing your hate speech at a specific poster, then you’re golden. So stuff like “the low intelligence and incompetence of non-Jewish non-European peoples” is just fine. > > Speaking as a non-Jewish non-European poster, that’s bullshit. > > I wonder how that would fly if **Construct** had said “the thievery and greed of Jewish peoples”… Just stop it. You’re being pointless. I’ll repeat: hate speech is difficult to define and can easily cross the line into supression of ideas. That’s antithetical to the very nature of the SDMB. Were we to supress that what’s to keep us from suppressing other unpopular opinions? I’d prefer to err on the side of allowing such and counting on the TM to treat such ideas with the respect they deserve. In general, we do a good job of policing such. I’m sorry you don’t feel that way. Don’t be shy about reporting posts, though. Again, speaking for myself only, many things can go into whether a post gets moderated. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/27 "2015-08-12T15:57:54Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I choose not to use it, because I stopped thinking that, just because I have the blankie over my head, the boogieman has disappeared, around the time I turned 3. I think your risk is roughly equal both from the boogieman and from some anonymous poster on the Internet. Regards, Shodan PS - no backsies, I’m rubber, you’re glue, and don’t step on the black tiles - they’re lava. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/28 "2015-08-12T16:02:42Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Has this not always been the case? I don’t recall you starting any threads when Der Trihs was spewing his hate speech. No, because I didn’t consider most of what he posted to be hate speech, and when it came close, like his posts about women, I did call it out although I never needed to start a thread about it specifically, there were always so many. On the other hand, this isn’t my first post ever about the modding of racism, nor the first thread like it I’ve participated in, so no, it’s not my understanding that it’s ‘always been the case’ that any old hate speech is OK so long as it’s not personal. The understanding I’d garnered from the mods was that some things, like scientific racism, weren’t considered hate speech (by them). This goes beyond that, so I was asking if they’d changed their minds again. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/29 "2015-08-12T16:04:55Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Just stop it. You’re being pointless. That’s not a yes or a no. And was that ‘stop it’ a mod instruction, because otherwise no, I’d actually like an answer to that question from a mod. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/30 "2015-08-12T16:10:39Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > No, because I didn’t consider most of what he posted to be hate speech, and when it came close, like his posts about women, I did call it out although I never needed to start a thread about it specifically, there were always so many. > > On the other hand, this isn’t my first post ever about the modding of racism, nor the first thread like it I’ve participated in, so no, it’s not my understanding that it’s ‘always been the case’ that any old hate speech is OK so long as it’s not personal. The understanding I’d garnered from the mods was that some things, like scientific racism, weren’t considered hate speech (by them). This goes beyond that, so I was asking if they’d changed their minds again. DTs would personally attack people who held different views; Construct doesnt. We dont have to like ideas that are expressed here but we are here to express ideas. The silencing of ideas is worse than the expression of the worst idea. Like a SCOTUS judge wrote…‘The antidote to bad speech is more speech’. ---
**Author:** ![Doyle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doyle/32/439_2.png) [@Doyle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doyle)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/31 "2015-08-12T16:13:19Z")
Mr. Dibble, your self awareness is dizzying. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18561333&postcount=44](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18561333&postcount=44) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/32 "2015-08-12T16:14:21Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Its disturbing that the OP would want someone banned for their ideas. Ideas are why this board exists. That kind of conflicts with this, though: > [@SDMB registration agreement as of 12/21/2014](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-registration-agreement-as-of-12-21-2014/620957/1): > > Hate speech, insults, and purposely inflammatory remarks (i.e., trolling) will not be tolerated. Do not post threats or state or imply that any individual or group is deserving of harm. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/33 "2015-08-12T16:16:13Z")
> [@Doyle](#): > > Mr. Dibble, your self awareness is dizzying. > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18561333&postcount=44](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18561333&postcount=44) Errm, **Construct** isn’t offering any ridiculous pseudoscientific rationale along those lines. I never said I’d laugh at racism. Just pseudoscience. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/34 "2015-08-12T16:17:32Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > That kind of conflicts with this, though: If all three of those rules were strictly enforced the SDMB herd would be thinned considerably. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/35 "2015-08-12T16:19:09Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > I was very surprised to see tomdebb participating in that thread. I don’t mean that he shouldn’t act as a poster rather than a moderator. But if any thread called for moderation, that one did. The OP was either a troll or mentally off (more than the rest of us) and the thread was full of nonsensical hate speech. I think that Tom was giving the OP enough rope to hang him or herself with. I was rather surprised by how quickly it got shut down, but then the OP went off the deep end rather rapidly into some truly disgusting racial slurs (this leaves aside his or her statements about 'pink’s used for ‘shoe leathercattle’…I really love how leather and cattle are contracted into one word there :p). The thing is, I’d rather see the mods allow things like that, at least for a while, instead of just shutting them down. You can’t fight ignorance if you simply shut down crazy people immediately, since it looks like you are afraid to engage and are shutting them down for that reason. I think hate speech is the same thing…it NEEDS to be fought against, lights blazing and with as much factual as well as scornful arguments back at it as we can do while still keeping things civil (well…relatively civil wrt GD anyway). You can’t fight hate speech or bug shit crazy crap like princess-whatever by knee jerk shutting it down, nor drop the mod hammer on it out of reflex. Instead, I think that the mods did a good job in that thread, shutting it down when it started to really go off the deep end as the OP spun out of control and started spraying a bit too much foam on everyone. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/36 "2015-08-12T16:19:29Z")
> [@Doyle](#): > > Mr. Dibble, your self awareness is dizzying. > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18561333&postcount=44](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18561333&postcount=44) OK, what? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/37 "2015-08-12T16:20:41Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > DTs would personally attack people who held different views; And was modded as appropriate…up to a suspension. > [@](#): > > Construct doesnt. We dont have to like ideas that are expressed here but we are here to express ideas. I don’t equate racism with “ideas I don’t like” - that’s stuff like Capitalism or pro-lifers or climate change denialism. And you don’t see me asking that those people get modded for just having ideas I don’t like. Hate speech is a different beast altogether. > [@](#): > > The silencing of ideas is worse than the expression of the worst idea. Like a SCOTUS judge wrote…‘The antidote to bad speech is more speech’. I disagree. Free speech should never be absolute, and some expressions of ideas are poisonous and should be modded, not debated. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/38 "2015-08-12T16:26:03Z")
> [@Construct](#): > > Oh boy, two different threads about me? > > For what it’s worth, and I doubt anyone will believe me, I really don’t hate anyone. Some groups I dislike, and others I think we’d be better off without, but I don’t hate people collectively and especially not as individuals. It’d be nice if leftists and moderates acknowledge that it’s possible to critique protected groups without hating them. See folks? He doesn’t hate them, he just dislikes them, and wishes they didn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/39 "2015-08-12T16:26:42Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Hate speech is a different beast altogether.I disagree. Free speech should never be absolute, and some expressions of ideas are poisonous and should be modded, not debated. Who gets to decide what speech is poisonous? Who should be given the power to decide who should be silenced? Edit to add In the larger sense… ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/40 "2015-08-12T16:29:26Z")
[QUOTE=MrDibble] I disagree. Free speech should never be absolute, and some expressions of ideas are poisonous and should be modded, not debated. [/QUOTE] This is one of those fundamental disagreements between us. While I agree that the mods have a role, and one they do well, I don’t think their role is or should be to stifle speech, even hate speech. You can’t combat hate speech by categorically stifling it, since it’s impossible to stifle. It can only be combated by combating it…and you can’t combat it if the jerking knee automatically locks the threads and bans the posters out of hand. No, free speech isn’t absolute, and there are limits…but you are trying to put to strict a limit on things, IMHO…and by doing so I believe you are actually doing the opposite of fighting hate speech, you are in fact encouraging it through such actions, to thrive in the dark corners and spread it’s poison. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632.md?page=3)