# tomndebb, allowing racist hate speech was a bullshit mod call **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [August 12, 2015, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632 "2015-08-12T06:18:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![ambushed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/81 "2015-08-12T20:44:44Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I am on record, having posted the point on more than one occasion, that I do not Moderate “hate speech.” > I find the various definitions vague, to begin with, and often shifting, (depending on whose ox is being gored). While I believe there might be something such as “hate speech,” … I have never found the various examples presented or several laws (outside the U.S.) enacted to be sufficiently consistent to determine which statements are hate speech and which are not. Come now, Tom! You’re easily one of the brightest people I’ve ever interacted with, but on this you’re essentially claiming that you’re too fuzzy-headed for any sensible discernment of hate speech vs non-hate speech at all? I’m not buying it. Sure, there will be ambiguous examples, those that are on the bubble, which should not be deleted or result in the poster being banned, but… > [@](#): > > “Marxists are an existential threat to our well being and way of life. Every single one of them should be lined up against the wall and shot” > > “…get out of Christian lands or die.” Or the other examples cited by [Construct itself?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18590761&postcount=8) Really? ---
**Author:** ![ambushed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/82 "2015-08-12T20:49:53Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > From the rules for posting on this MB: > > _Hate speech directed against any race, religion, ethnicity, nationality, or gender is a violation of our rules in any forum_ > > _Hate speech, insults, and purposely inflammatory remarks (i.e., trolling) will not be tolerated_ > > Shouldn’t you resign as a moderator if you refuse to moderate all the rules??? Or, I guess hate speech WILL be tolerated, and we should change the rules to reflect that. This. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/83 "2015-08-12T20:52:03Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Go read my post. I indicated that he was going to begin collecting Warnings for three offenses. Other Mods feel more confident regarding their ability to recognize hate speech and I figured he might pick up such a Warning from one of them. I never claimed I would Warn him for hate speech. Trolling and personal insults will get one Warned and banned regardless of hate speech accusations. So you recognize hate speech well enough to expect other mods to act on it, but not well enough that you can act on it. Can you explain how it is that the rule against hate speech is so vague as to prevent you from enforcing it, but the rule of “don’t be a jerk” is clear enough that you can enforce it? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![ambushed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/84 "2015-08-12T20:52:29Z")
So, if you refuse to moderate hate speech, why the hell isn’t this painfully obvious troll being banned because he’s a painfully obvious troll? 😕 Why the fuck doesn’t the name “Construct” just scream “TROLL!” at you?:smack: ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/85 "2015-08-12T21:00:23Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > I won’t speak for Tom but usually hate speech - should I choose to moderate it - would need to be directed at an individual poster or in some form be limiting the ability of posters to express themselves. Should a poster be problematic in other ways - as true racists tend to be - the chain will be shorter and I might act quicker. …I struggle to reconcile your position here with your position to [warn Kobal 2 for using the word nigger.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18424149#post18424149) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/86 "2015-08-12T21:29:07Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Seriously, dude, must you be on all the time? When it comes to racism? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/87 "2015-08-12T21:31:52Z")
> [@XT](#): > > The best way to fight these guys is a good old fashioned SDMB humiliation shark feeding frenzy. Since we’ve been explicitly forbidden from calling racists ‘racists’ in GD, that would be us anti-racists in a fight with one hand tied behind our backs, no? Since they can post any old racist shit they like as long, as it isn’t personal attack. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/88 "2015-08-12T21:39:50Z")
Sorry, serious comma slippage there… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/89 "2015-08-12T22:05:19Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Can you explain how it is that the rule against hate speech is so vague as to prevent you from enforcing it, but the rule of “don’t be a jerk” is clear enough that you can enforce it? Quote me handing out a Warning for being a jerk, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/90 "2015-08-12T22:13:42Z")
> [@ambushed](#): > > So, if you refuse to moderate hate speech, why the hell isn’t this painfully obvious troll being banned because he’s a painfully obvious troll? 😕 > > Why the fuck doesn’t the name “Construct” just scream “TROLL!” at you?:smack: What makes you think that Construct’s posting style (not name) does not scream TROLL? There are a lot of posters whom I regard as trolls. I generally do not ban on my personal feelings, but allow them to demonstrate their intention to specifically rile up posters rather than promoting unpopular positions in poorly worded posts before I push for banning. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/91 "2015-08-12T22:33:49Z")
> [@ambushed](#): > > “group”? Yikes! > > If you truly held that context was important, you would not have so blithely (and erroneously) conflated 19 _ **individual Muslims** _ with “all Muslims” (as you clearly implied). > > You’d get a pass if you made clear the “group” you were referring to was “al-Qaeda”, but you didn’t – just like Construct. FTR…there is a track record of individuals around the world…from NYC to London to Madrid to Paris to Tunisia to Egypt to Nigeria to Iraq to Yemen to India and Pakistan and Afghanistan to Indonesia to the Philipines that have targeted civilians and have one ideology in common. Not recognizing that there is a strain of Islam that preaches and actually commits terror is to ignore reality. Obviously, that doesnt mean that all or a majority of Muslims agree or support them. BTW…please remind me who is funding al-Queda? Who hides them? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/92 "2015-08-12T22:51:10Z")
BTW Ambushed…if I dont toe your line Im just as vile as someone else. Really? This isnt a black and white issue. If I were condemning lynchings I wouldnt condemn the individuals who perpetrated them; I condemn the culture that fostered and supported and protected them. The KKK didnt exist in a vacuum. Obviously the levels of guilt in these groups vary. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/93 "2015-08-12T22:55:52Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > BTW…please remind me who is funding al-Queda? Who hides them? Probably Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Construct](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@Construct](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Construct)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/94 "2015-08-12T23:01:00Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > If I were condemning lynchings I wouldnt condemn the individuals who perpetrated them… That’s a very strange attitude to hold. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/95 "2015-08-12T23:06:04Z")
> [@Construct](#): > > That’s a very strange attitude to hold. I misspoke. Of course I would condemn them. But I wouldnt only condemn them as ambushed suggests we should only blame the actual 19 al-queda terrorists. We must blame the culture that spawned them. There was a reason why we wanted Germany de-Nazified after WW2. ---
**Author:** ![Construct](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@Construct](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Construct)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/96 "2015-08-12T23:14:29Z")
That makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/97 "2015-08-12T23:52:06Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > DTs would personally attack people who held different views; Construct doesnt. We dont have to like ideas that are expressed here but we are here to express ideas. The silencing of ideas is worse than the expression of the worst idea. Like a SCOTUS judge wrote…‘The antidote to bad speech is more speech’. Bullshit. It’s an internet message board and a privately owned one at that. It’s not a meeting of philosophy professors. They can ban any topic they want. (Granted some of them are dumb, but this isn’t one of them) I’m guessing if I made a topic on how to construct a meth lab, that would get shut down real fast. On the other hand, they let a freaking pedophile post about his um, “inclinations” for months before he was finally banned (for other reasons), despite the fact that he was annoying and disgusting. So And not all speech is protected at that. Kiddy porn is illegal. So is making death threats against people. Now I think Construct is obviously putting us on. But “we should allow all ideas to be expressed” is bullshit. “They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.” ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/98 "2015-08-13T00:19:34Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > But “we should allow all ideas to be expressed” is bullshit. ^ This. In addition, it’s lazy and fundamentally bad moderation to refuse to moderate stuff like “Every single one of them should be lined up against the wall and shot” and other obvious hate-speech-isms. I’m with Mr. Dibble regarding the back-asswards mod-idea that using the term “racist” to describe someone who promotes murder/lynching/ethnic cleansing/racial inferiority is BAD and worthy of generating mod note or a warning, but that actually _advocating_ those positions is just fine and dandy. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/99 "2015-08-13T00:30:37Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Probably Trump. Nah. If it was Trump they would be TRUMP’S AL-QUEDA and be the biggest best most prestigious terrorist group ever. And he would probably gold plate them. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632/100 "2015-08-13T00:45:55Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Nah. If it was Trump they would be TRUMP’S AL-QUEDA and be the biggest best most prestigious terrorist group ever. And he would probably gold plate them. And they’d all have knockers the size of bazookas!! Or, maybe RPGs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-allowing-racist-hate-speech-was-a-bullshit-mod-call/727632.md?page=6)