# Tomndebb continuously singles me out in threads **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [April 14, 2009, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-continuously-singles-me-out-in-threads/493080 "2009-04-14T16:35:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-continuously-singles-me-out-in-threads/493080/1 "2009-04-14T16:35:02Z")
He asked me to bring it here so I will. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11037020&postcount=735](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11037020&postcount=735) His warning I do not have a problem with, I am just tired of being singled out when the back and forth is mutual between me and the person I insulted. Yes, I called **ElvisL1ves** ‘dirt stupid’ and yes I know it’s against the rules in GD. He first calls me a liar in post [355](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11022687&postcount=355) [QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] If that’s truly not the position you hold, you should not be arguing it. Very bad form. **Honesty-impaired** , even. But if you won’t profess any other, what else can the rest of us conclude? [/QUOTE] So I respond directly to this in post [360](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11022719&postcount=360) [QUOTE=mswas] I don’t show respect and understanding for only one side. Jayjay got it just fine. He understood my view perfectly. I think it’s an abstract social good. I am neither gay nor a Christian Evangelical. If I were on a Christian message board I’d be arguing the opposite position in order to educate people about the other side of the debate, like I am attempting to do here. In fact I’d be arguing more passionately because I am in support of gay marriage. I passionately support gay adoption because I am all for opening up the field of contenders for foster care and adoption based on the idea that a larger field of contenders will provide an opportunity to place the kids more effectively. I have seen some really atrocious hetero foster care in my life and don’t think that gay couples will do any worse. [/QUOTE] Miller got it in post [376](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11022856&postcount=376) So after **JayJay** tried to explain things to him, he calls me a liar again in post [416](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11025091&postcount=416) In post [432](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11025757&postcount=432) he tries to explain to me what underlies the ‘code’ of my posts. Now this goes on for page after page. He also calls me stupid in various forms. Now, I don’t care if he thinks I am a liar or stupid. I don’t even care about being called out for being uncivil by calling him ‘dirt stupid’. What I do care about is that **Tomndebb** singles me out time and again when I go to the mats with someone. I see him warn people in groups in other situations, but with me it’s always singling me out and not addressing the breaking of the rules by other posters. This has happened in dozens of threads at this point. So now, I simply have no respect at all for him as a moderator. I’ll do what he says, but I’d do it anyway, once I’ve called someone stupid I don’t need to do it over and over, so his warning is essentially superfluous. Whether this results in my banning from this forum, I could honestly care less, if people agree with him then that’s fine, I don’t and I am comfortable being the only person who sees it the way I do. Other people like **Bryan Ekers** also accused me of lying and nothing was said, he just didn’t go on about it for pages like **ElvisL1ves** did. So either **Tomndebb** holds me to a higher standard because he has such high hopes for me, in which case I should be flattered, or on some subconscious level he loathes me, it doesn’t matter, his moderation is always one-sided. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-continuously-singles-me-out-in-threads/493080/2 "2009-04-14T16:45:29Z")
Or, you’re a liar and don’t realize it. Personally I’ve never particularly noticed you, so I’m not endorsing that idea. But, it should probably be considered. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-continuously-singles-me-out-in-threads/493080/3 "2009-04-14T16:49:22Z")
How can someone be a liar and not realise it? Lying requires intent - a deliberate decision to present things in a way other than you believe them to be. Being wrong and not realising it would make it a misunderstanding, not a lie. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-continuously-singles-me-out-in-threads/493080/4 "2009-04-14T17:28:23Z")
So you called a member 'dirt stupid, although you knew it was against the rules of GD. And when a moderator calls you on it he’s ‘singling you out’. Ah, the injustice of it! ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-continuously-singles-me-out-in-threads/493080/5 "2009-04-14T17:38:29Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Or, you’re a liar and don’t realize it. > > Personally I’ve never particularly noticed you, so I’m not endorsing that idea. But, it should probably be considered. :rolleyes: I secretly oppose gay marriage but I tell everyone I support it. So in action I am supporting it but in a deep recess of my tortured soul I am really against it. Thank you Dr. Freud, your analysis is startling. But that’s all irrelevant, calling someone a liar is against the rules of GD, and that’s what this thread is about. Even if I am a liar, it’s still against the rules to call me one. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-continuously-singles-me-out-in-threads/493080/6 "2009-04-14T17:39:30Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > So you called a member 'dirt stupid, although you knew it was against the rules of GD. And when a moderator calls you on it he’s ‘singling you out’. > > Ah, the injustice of it! Yes, after being insulted page after page. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-continuously-singles-me-out-in-threads/493080/7 "2009-04-14T17:44:26Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > How can someone be a liar and not realise it? For instance, I was arguing with one poster. He looks at a quote that says something along the lines of, “Human released greenhouse gasses are clearly causing climate change.”, and declares it as saying nothing about global warming or CO2 because neither of those words is used. Whether he believed that himself or not, who can say, but I think that calling blatantly obvious mental blindness a “lie” is a close enough term for everyday use. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-continuously-singles-me-out-in-threads/493080/8 "2009-04-14T18:02:14Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > For instance, I was arguing with one poster. He looks at a quote that says something along the lines of, “Human released greenhouse gasses are clearly causing climate change.”, and declares it as saying nothing about global warming or CO2 because neither of those words is used. Whether he believed that himself or not, who can say, but I think that calling blatantly obvious mental blindness a “lie” is a close enough term for everyday use. The term you are looking for is ‘cognitive dissonance’. Something I am not laboring under. I have unabashedly examined my views on homosexuality and recognize where my biases come in, and have weighed it dispassionately and concluded that SSM is a good thing. That doesn’t mean that I wasn’t swayed by some of the counter-arguments, only that they were outweighed by the pro-arguments. The implication is that either I am totally for pro-SSM without reservation or I cannot possibly support SSM. I see two arguments that have merit and have made a decision about which world I would rather live in. That is hardly dishonest. It would be dishonest for me to be pro-SSM pretending that I don’t have sympathy for the counter-argument. Socially I am pretty far left. Regarding Foreign Policy I lean somewhat heavily toward the right. Fiscally I am rather in the middle. Even if I hated ‘faggots’ with every fiber of my being, I don’t think it is my place to keep them from living their lives as they like. But as I don’t hate homosexuals, and in fact am quite fond of several, I am not very worried about lying to myself. ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-continuously-singles-me-out-in-threads/493080/9 "2009-04-14T18:23:29Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Yes, after being insulted page after page. But “dirt stupid” is clear cut. You claim he called you a liar, but he didn’t. He said “ **If** that’s truly not the position you hold…” and “I think there’s reason for skepticism.” Neither of those statements are calling you a liar as you claim. Calling someone “dirt stupid” is calling someone dirt stupid and is clearly against the rules. If your insults were as vague as the person’s _insults_ you’re complaining about, maybe you wouldn’t have had to start this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-continuously-singles-me-out-in-threads/493080/10 "2009-04-14T18:28:42Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > For instance, I was arguing with one poster. He looks at a quote that says something along the lines of, “Human released greenhouse gasses are clearly causing climate change.”, and declares it as saying nothing about global warming or CO2 because neither of those words is used. Whether he believed that himself or not, who can say, but I think that calling blatantly obvious mental blindness a “lie” is a close enough term for everyday use. I suppose all I can really say is that I disagree. For me, lying must be a wilful act with the intent to deceive. Stupidity isn’t deceit; it’s the very opposite, in fact, because stupidity denotes a lack of knowledge while deceit requires it. Besides, I don’t know whether the conversation you mention was in GD like the one **mswas** quotes from, but at least in there we should try and hold ourselves to higher standards of accuracy. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-continuously-singles-me-out-in-threads/493080/11 "2009-04-14T18:29:43Z")
> [@Fantome](#): > > But “dirt stupid” is clear cut. You claim he called you a liar, but he didn’t. He said “ **If** that’s truly not the position you hold…” and “I think there’s reason for skepticism.” Neither of those statements are calling you a liar as you claim. Calling someone “dirt stupid” is calling someone dirt stupid and is clearly against the rules. If your insults were as vague as the person’s _insults_ you’re complaining about, maybe you wouldn’t have had to start this thread. Oh so what’s the appropriate euphemism that conveys that he’s ‘dirt stupid’ as clearly as he conveyed the thought that I was lying? My English teacher in HS wrote on my friend’s paper that it was, “not worthy of a thinking creature.”, would that one work? ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-continuously-singles-me-out-in-threads/493080/12 "2009-04-14T18:42:54Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Oh so what’s the appropriate euphemism that conveys that he’s ‘dirt stupid’ as clearly as he conveyed the thought that I was lying? My English teacher in HS wrote on my friend’s paper that it was, “not worthy of a thinking creature.”, would that one work? Sure, if you think that’s not a violation of the rules, go for it. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-continuously-singles-me-out-in-threads/493080/13 "2009-04-14T20:49:45Z")
As a non-GD participant (except as a lurker), I’m not sure if _implying_ someone is a liar is against GD rules. But if it is, then **ElvisL1ves** did indeed break the rules. In which case, he should have been chastized as well. Of course, two wrongs don’t make a right, though, **mswas**. While I understand that you may have been upset at **ElvisL1ves** ’s implied insults, the correct response should have been to report his/her posts, rather than do something you knew was in violation of the GD rules. Nevertheless, as I said, if \*\*ElvisL1ves \*\* did cross the line, I agree with your OP here: **tomndebb** should not have spoken only to you. It is certainly possible that he PMed **ElvisL1ves** privately, but if so, he should’ve done the same to you. Since he spoke to you in public, he should’ve done so with \*\*ElvisL1ves \*\*. Justice in the form of evenhanded moderation must not only be done, it must be _seen_ to be done. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-continuously-singles-me-out-in-threads/493080/14 "2009-04-15T01:08:08Z")
> [@choie](#): > > As a non-GD participant (except as a lurker), I’m not sure if _implying_ someone is a liar is against GD rules. But if it is, then **ElvisL1ves** did indeed break the rules. In which case, he should have been chastized as well. This is a good point. _Is_ it against GD rules to call someone a liar? What if (hypothetically. I haven’t read the links.) **mswas** _was_ lying, and someone called him on it? Would it still be against the rules? On the other side of the coin, is it against the board rules to post a lie? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-continuously-singles-me-out-in-threads/493080/15 "2009-04-15T01:43:47Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > This is a good point. _Is_ it against GD rules to call someone a liar? What if (hypothetically. I haven’t read the links.) **mswas** _was_ lying, and someone called him on it? Would it still be against the rules? > > On the other side of the coin, is it against the board rules to post a lie? It’s the top sticky in GD: “Don’t call someone a liar in GD.” I think one is expected to take such allegations to the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-continuously-singles-me-out-in-threads/493080/16 "2009-04-15T03:13:51Z")
**mswas** , you know how things work around here to realize that you aren’t being “singled out” by the moderator. It is pretty much a given that the moderator was directed to your post through someone having alerted the mods, using the Report Post button. The mod came, looked at your post, saw that you had indeed violated the rules, and dispatched the appropriate remedy. If what **ElvisL1ves** did was a rules violation, the way to have that dealt with is not to retaliate with your own blatant rules violation. Instead, click that little Report Post icon yourself, and report what you consider to be a rules violation. Then see what happens. If you don’t see something happen, then send a PM or an email to one of the moderators for GD, and ask why the post isn’t being dealt with. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-continuously-singles-me-out-in-threads/493080/17 "2009-04-15T03:15:14Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > He first calls me a liar in post [355](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11022687&postcount=355) And did you report this to the mods, or were you planning on holding your breath until someone came forth to avenge your honour? ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-continuously-singles-me-out-in-threads/493080/18 "2009-04-15T06:50:10Z")
From the Writ of MEBuckner: > [@](#): > > Questioning or disputing the accuracy of another poster’s statements–“I don’t think that’s right”, “That’s incorrect”, “You are mistaken”, or even “That’s not true”-- is what Great Debates is all about. However, questioning the intent of another poster in making an arguably false statement–e.g., “You are a liar”, “You are lying”, “That is a lie”, “That’s not true and you darned well know it isn’t true”–is crossing the line into attacking the other poster rather than attacking the other poster’s arguments, and will be considered a violation of the rules of the forum. It’s clear to me that your honesty wasn’t impugned – rather, **ElvisL1ves** sought to nettle you into owning your arguments. If you want to argue as Devil’s Advocate, you need to say so at the start, not after you start getting hammered – that looks a lot like weaseling, which is to say dishonest debate. AFAIK, that’s a perfectly legitimate call under GD rules. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-continuously-singles-me-out-in-threads/493080/19 "2009-04-15T12:50:01Z")
“Weaseling is what distinguishes human beings from animals. Well, except the weasel.” Calling someone a liar is a violation of GD rules. Frankly, it’s a violation of the rules of every forum except the Pit. Saying that someone has made a false statement is NOT against the rules. The difference is that it’s OK to attack the STATEMENT but not the PERSON. A statement can be false, misleading, erroneous, etc. A person is another poster who must be treated with at least a minimal courtesy and respect. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-continuously-singles-me-out-in-threads/493080/20 "2009-04-15T13:31:17Z")
He didn’t say **mswas** made a false statement, he said he was (possibly) being “honesty imparied” and that he was “skeptical” that **mswas** was being truthful. **mswas** was certainly in violation, brazenly so. But I do think **Elvisl1ves** also violated the rule\*. However, if his posts weren’t reported, I doubt **tomndebb** would have spotted it. - At least the spirit of it. Is that enough to merit a comment from the moderator? I think so, FWIW. Especially if said moderator is already in the thread commenting against another poster. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-continuously-singles-me-out-in-threads/493080.md?page=2)