# tomndebb is a genocide denier **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 26, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-a-genocide-denier/696561 "2014-08-26T16:07:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-a-genocide-denier/696561/1 "2014-08-26T16:07:27Z")
. Dear **The Second Stone** , I don’t start Pit threads. Hell, I don’t often start threads of any sort. But hey, I figure I’ll hook you up with a place to complain without all the passive-aggressive bullshit. I’m a helper! I’d avoided the most recent of the Israel/Palestine threads, and MENA threads in general. But I happened on [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=732087) you started in ATMB, in which you asked: > [@Genocide deniers should be put on ignore](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genocide-deniers-should-be-put-on-ignore/696512/1): > > Mods, I think that genocide deniers should be put on my ignore list. That isn’t a problem except when one of them is a moderator. I would like to put a moderator whom I consider a genocide denier on my ignore list. Can it be arranged? Like an ad in the bolour supplement, that really bought my eye. A handy link from **BPC** took me over to [this gem of a GD thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=731294), which is a discussion about the ethics and morality of Israeli policy toward Palestinians in general and Gazans in particular. Now, I get your perspective. I really do. You think that Israel is an aggressor, an occupier, an oppressor. I don’t entirely disagree. You also think that Israel is directly comparable, in action and morality, to Nazi Germany: > [@Man returns Holocaust medal](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-returns-holocaust-medal/695760/8): > > The rounding up of Jews and keeping them in Ghettos like in Warsaw and periodically committing murders against all of them when some of them fight back is the exact same crime being committed by Israel against the Gazans. You also have decided that Israel is [“bottling up families in the Gaza ghetto and then periodically slaughtering them”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17649965&postcount=20) and [“a fascist nation implementing fascist policies”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17651218&postcount=27). Ok, I get that. Again, I don’t \*entirely \*disagree. Heck, you say that [“collective punishment is a crime against humanity,”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17665030&postcount=150) and I largely agree with that. But then you start in on genocide. Israel is committing it. And, apparently, anyone who does not actively condemn its actions _supports_ that genocide. Excuse me, check that: that anyone who disagrees with you is a _“genocide denier.”_ Leaving aside that terminology, which to my eyes is clearly intended to parallel “Holocaust denier” (and is not even remotely the same in any sense), you made some specific claims about Israeli actions against Palestinian civilians that you believe support your belief in Palestinian genocide. You very specifically cited a piece from Chris Hedges [writing in Salon](http://open.salon.com/blog/markinjapan/2014/08/05/why_israel_lies) as providing examples of [“what Israeli soldiers do for fun.”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17650015&postcount=22) You proceed to talk about Israel, as a nation, [“machine gunning young boys, bombing schools and hospitals…bait[ing] and murder[ing] young boys, bomb[ing] civilians and schools.”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17663980&postcount=130) You talk about “baiting and machine gunning little boys” a [couple](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17665139&postcount=154) [more](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17666245&postcount=193) times. You’re really hammering on it, and understandably; it’s a hell of a rhetorical image. But…is it true? Is it verifiable? So **tomndeb** decides to call you on it: > [@Man returns Holocaust medal](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-returns-holocaust-medal/695760/197): > > > [@Man returns Holocaust medal](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-returns-holocaust-medal/695760/27): > > > > It is not legal to bait little boys with taunts and then machine gun them. That is happening. > > No, it is not. In response, you again cite the Hedges piece. He replies with some points about Mr. Hedges’ reliability as a journalist and witness. And that’s when, IMever-soHO, you lost your shit. **tom~** is now, to your mind, a “genocide denier.” Which brings us back around to your ATMB thread. You’d like to put this scurrilous genocide denier on ignore. He’s awful and a denier and probably a Nazi to boot. But, understandably, you’d prefer not to name names in an ATMB thread. To make my point perfectly clear: **That is some seriously next-level passive-aggressive bullshit.** I don’t give all that many fucks about your posts _in re_ Israel or Gaza or fascism or genocide. I think you have some good points, and some utterly asinine ones. I think you’re a fucking idiot for saying that **tom~** is a denier of, supporter of, and apologist for genocide. But what actually irritates me–enough to write this inane, borderline-unreadable abortion of a Pit thread–is your being such a _ **goddamn passive-aggressive baby about it.** _ So here ya fucking go. Your very own thread. Calling **tomndeb** out by name as a genocide denier. I did it for you so you don’t have to. Tell him all about it. Really lay into him. Don’t say I never did anything for ya. (But please remember: this is not a thread for complaining about moderation. I’d hate to see warnings or a banhammer come down, so leave that “biased mods” stuff out of it. Don’t start on how **tom~**'s being a horrible, horrible _moderator_. This is just a safe place for you to talk about **tom~**'s being a horrible, horrible _person_.) . ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-a-genocide-denier/696561/2 "2014-08-26T16:20:11Z")
Well now. That’s a misleading thread title. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-a-genocide-denier/696561/3 "2014-08-26T16:28:29Z")
Maybe you could get a mod to change the spelling in the thread title? ---
**Author:** ![2gigch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/2gigch1/32/3313_2.png) [@2gigch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2gigch1)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-a-genocide-denier/696561/4 "2014-08-26T16:36:15Z")
Nah, in relation to the locked ATMB thread this title works, and I like the well crafted OP. Well done! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-a-genocide-denier/696561/5 "2014-08-26T16:44:46Z")
[Certainly seems](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=564868) like **The Second Stone** has had [a thing](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=520365) against **tomndebb** for [quite a while](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=500491). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-a-genocide-denier/696561/6 "2014-08-26T16:58:57Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Maybe you could get a mod to change the spelling in the thread title? That’s exactly like what the Nazis did! ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-a-genocide-denier/696561/7 "2014-08-26T17:01:09Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > [Certainly seems](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=564868) like **The Second Stone** has had [a thing](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=520365) against **tomndebb** for [quite a while](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=500491). That last link includes the following comment from **tomndebb** : > [@](#): > > As a Mod, I am interested in order, not justice. That proves it! Mods _are_ Nazis!!! :eek::smack::dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-a-genocide-denier/696561/8 "2014-08-26T17:04:57Z")
> [@andros](#): > > . > > To make my point perfectly clear: **That is some seriously next-level passive-aggressive bullshit.** I don’t give all that many fucks about your posts _in re_ Israel or Gaza or fascism or genocide. I think you have some good points, and some utterly asinine ones. I think you’re a fucking idiot for saying that **tom~** is a denier of, supporter of, and apologist for genocide. But what actually irritates me–enough to write this inane, borderline-unreadable abortion of a Pit thread–is your being such a _ **goddamn passive-aggressive baby about it.** _ I love this. This is such a perfect SDMB point of view. And I agree wholeheartedly. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-a-genocide-denier/696561/9 "2014-08-26T17:05:34Z")
Thank you, OP. I agree with the thread title. Here is the thread referred to: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17672719#post17672719](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17672719#post17672719) In order to make the case for Tomndebb being a genocide denier people will need to read how he belittles each report of an atrocity against Palestinian children. I’ve summed that up here: > [@](#): > > Quote: > Originally Posted by tomndebb View Post > I have refused to accept a specific claim by one person that a specific type of action occurred multiple times without a single other person ever reporting it. > As noted, others have reported it. You don’t accept the claim of Mr. Hedges and never did, and never considered doing so. Your posting makes that really clear. Thousands of Palestinians have died in Gaza during the past decades. > > [http://www.democracynow.org/2014/7/1...beach\_new\_york](http://www.democracynow.org/2014/7/1...beach_new_york) > Not a similar enough atrocity for you to credit Hedges from [DemocracyNow.org](http://DemocracyNow.org). > Quote: > JUAN GONZÁLEZ: A five-hour humanitarian truce has just ended in Gaza. The break was requested by the United Nations to allow residents of the Gaza Strip to gather supplies and repair damage following 10 days of attacks by Israel. The death toll in Gaza has reached at least 227, mostly civilians. One Israeli has died since the attack began. There are reports today of a new ceasefire agreement between Israel and Gaza, but details remain unclear. > > AMY GOODMAN: On Wednesday, an Israeli gunboat shelled a beach, killing four boys who were playing there. The boys were all between the ages of nine and 11 and from the same extended family. Seven other adults and children were wounded in the strike. The scene was witnessed by a number of international journalists, including France 24 correspondent Gallagher Fenwick. > > GALLAGHER FENWICK: We witnessed the incident. The first strike occurred, and we went out onto our balcony. You have to understand that this happened right in front of the hotels on the Gaza beachfront where most of the international media are staying, so there were very many witnesses of this incident. As I mentioned, there was a first very loud strike that hit a structure that is right on the Gaza port. So, many people looking out onto there. And after that first strike happened, we saw four very young children running away from the point of impact on a completely empty beach, so very clearly visible from a distance. And that’s why—that’s when, excuse me, there was a second strike that obviously hit the other children, so leaving four children dead on that beach—a very shocking incident given that, again, these children were clearly simply playing around and were very, very clearly visible from a distance. > Here you disdains amnesty international: > [http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/trigg...ank-2014-02-27](http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/trigg...ank-2014-02-27) > > Quote: > In all cases examined by Amnesty International, Palestinians killed by Israeli soldiers did not appear to be posing a direct and immediate threat to life. In some, there is evidence that they were victims of wilful killings, which would amount to war crimes. > > “The report presents a body of evidence that shows a harrowing pattern of unlawful killings and unwarranted injuries of Palestinian civilians by Israeli forces in the West Bank,” said Philip Luther, Middle East and North Africa Director at Amnesty International. > > “The frequency and persistence of arbitrary and abusive force against peaceful protesters in the West Bank by Israeli soldiers and police officers – and the impunity enjoyed by perpetrators – suggests that it is carried out as a matter of policy.” > > Deaths and injuries > > Amnesty International has documented the killings of 22 Palestinian civilians in the West Bank last year, at least 14 of which were in the context of protests. Most were young adults under the age of 25. At least four were children. > Here is a video of a young man being murdered as he walks along at about 46 to 50 seconds and another at 1:25 to 1:30 seconds walking in the opposite direction, no weapon in hand [http://mondoweiss.net/2014/05/palest](http://mondoweiss.net/2014/05/palest)…-soldiers.html These two boys were murdered walking along with their hands at their sides. Perhaps you can tell us why they were executed without trial with troops right there. An eyewitness does. > > [Did Israeli troops deliberately provoke boy, only to shoot him in the back? | The Independent | The Independent](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...k-8454650.html) > The Independent publishes a news story identical to that of Hedges. You conclude from this that Hedges cannot be credited. > Quote: > Samir’s family and other villagers said the IDF regularly uses loudhailers to taunt children at the Budrus Secondary School, which overlooks the area where Samir was killed. > [http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/...2571EA00536864](http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/...2571EA00536864) UNISPAL > > Quote: > The six incidents were: > On May 30, around 1 a.m., Israeli artillery fired on paramedics in the northern town of Bait Lahiya as they were collecting casualties. One paramedic was injured. Video footage of this incident recorded the sound and detonation of an incoming shell that wounded the paramedic. The footage did not include any audio or video indication of ongoing fighting between Israeli forces and these or other armed Palestinians. > On July 12, ambulance paramedics came under Israeli gunfire as they collected casualties in al-Qarrara, southern Gaza Strip, in the early afternoon. > On July 19, around 1 a.m. Israeli forces opened fire at the location where a paramedic had just stepped down from an ambulance to collect a casualty in Maghazi Refugee Camp. > In a second incident on the morning of July 19, a drone-fired missile landed close to and gravely wounded a driver who was part of a convoy of three ambulances in Maghazi Refugee Camp that was collecting injured persons from an Israeli strike a short while earlier. The bomb also wounded another paramedic less seriously. > On July 20, shortly after noontime, a shell that was apparently launched from a ship hit an ambulance en route to collect a casualty on the Sea Road south of Gaza City. > In a second incident on July 20, in the evening, a drone-fired missile struck a building near two clearly marked ambulances on the southern edge of Maghazi Refugee Camp, wounding to a driver and paramedic. > > - See more at: [http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/....SShB1dph.dpuf](http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/....SShB1dph.dpuf) > [404 | ZeroHedge](http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...geting-civilia) > links to an Israeli soldier admitting civilian targeting [http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014.../idfs-a06.html](http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014.../idfs-a06.html) > Quote: > As the bloodbath continued in Gaza last week, a member of the Israel Defense Forces (IDF), Eran Efrati, exposed on social media classified information concerning the tactics and targets of the devastating attacks on the Palestinian people who are trapped in the war zone. He explicitly stated that his superiors encouraged IDF soldiers to take revenge on Palestinian civilians for their fallen comrades. > > Efrati, a company sergeant, posted to his Facebook page on Tuesday, July 29 that Palestinian civilians killed during the Shuja’iyya massacre of July 20 were deliberately targeted in order to “punish” the population for the killing of seven Israeli soldiers serving in the Golani Brigade by sniper fire. > > “The official command that was handed down to the soldiers in Shujaiyya was to capture Palestinian homes as outposts,” Efrati wrote. “From these posts, the soldiers drew an imaginary red line, and amongst themselves decided to shoot to death anyone who crosses it. Anyone crossing the line was defined as a threat to their outposts, and was thus deemed a legitimate target.” > Eran Efrati is now, of course, libeled for his revealing this information about the deliberate targeting of civilians for shooting in retaliation.[http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-s...lf-abhorrence/](http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-s...lf-abhorrence/) that is really accusing him of being anti-Semitic and self-hating and psychotic. Attacking credibility just as you and others have done to Dr. Meyer and Mr. Hedges in this thread. > > This soldier has posted this on his Facebook page (not linked) and was then arrested for doing so. [http://globalvoicesonline.org/2014/0...zas-shujaiyya/](http://globalvoicesonline.org/2014/0...zas-shujaiyya/) > > Here is a talk by Efrati [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93hqlmrZKd8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93hqlmrZKd8) his grandmother was an Auschwitz survivor and he credits her with his speaking out and comparing what he saw with the Nazis. > So everyone else in the world is mistaken, lying, crazy, self-hating and it is okay to shoot four children playing on the beach, to taunt children near the wire and shoot them and otherwise. > > You call me mono-maniacal and other names and whatever else comes to your mind. I am honored to earn whatever form of denigration or disrespect that comes from you. > > I accuse you of deliberately and intentionally being willfully blind to evidence of genocide. Minimizing reports of crimes against humanity, raising spurious distinctions, smearing the names of witnesses to murders and generally dismissing the unnamed witnesses to murders. Of minimizing the genocide of the Palestinian people. Of being an advocate to ignoring the evidence of genocide. > Last edited by The Second Stone; Yesterday at 10:55 PM… > Reply With Quote Now, I’m also going to agree that my responses to the genocide denier Tomndebb in that thread are passive-aggressive. One is not allowed to directly insult in other forums, and I got an official warning for calling a consistently racist poster a racist in that thread. In that thread Tomndebb initially got my attention in his posting capacity by claiming that Chris Hedges, Pulitizer Prize sharing writer, did not see what he reported. I had read Hedges report a few days before and reported without linking to them that baiting and machine gunning young boys by some IDF troops was something he had seen and he reported that others had seen it too. At the time, I repeated Hedges accusation with no attribution. Tomndebb asserted definitively that such things did not happen. I, of course, knew of the report and then found it again and linked to it again. Tomndebb then dismissed the report passively aggressively suggesting it wasn’t credible because if there were other incidents, others would have reported. I then linked to a number of similar incidents, which Tomndebb, like a young lawyer cub for the Nazis, pointed out, tried to point out the differences in each incident, complaining that they were not exactly the same. This is pettifogging and intellectually dishonest. In the service of smoothing over the murders of children. Since then I found an Israeli soldier, linked to above, who has confirmed these stories. Others in the thread have linked to a smearing of his character in an Israeli newspaper. Smearing of the character of witnesses is 100 percent standard when people complain about the murder of Palestinians. Now, we have all these bodies of Palestinians turning up, and for some reason we have focused on the bodies of the children, and reports of the Israelis Defense Forces shooting at them, including now from a man who was in the IDF, and still it isn’t enough witnesses to credit any one of the reports. That is why I call Tomndebb a genocide denier. Which is no different than a Holocaust denier, which is a kind of Nazi scum. To the extent that I tried to directly avoid doing that outside this forum, that was because I was trying to follow the rules. To the extent that I was directly insulting outside this forum, I confess to failing to follow the rules of said forum and apologize for directly insulting. Also, it should be noted that Group A are Nazis, and you are a Nazi is not allowed outside the Pit. To the extend I did that, I apologize. I was certainly called a Nazi that way in the thread. Holocaust denial is despicable and the people who do it should not be engaged in debate and should in general be shunned. Left Hand of Dorkness was doing the same thing in the thread. I’ve put him on ignore. None of the other people on the side of Israel in that thread, including the racist poster, dismissed the dead bodies and slandered the witnesses the way Tomndebb and LHOD did. I would put Tomndebb on my ignore list if it were allowed, but as Tomndebb is a moderator, that is not a setting currently allowed on the board. According to Giraffe, the settings for the software do allow a poster to ignore the moderators, but as they are the moderators, that makes no sense as we need to be reigned in when we call people too directly on their racism in the wrong forum. I propose instead that Tomndebb be stripped of moderator status and banned for being a defender of the Gaza genocide that dismisses the evidence by slandering each witness, the thread above is the evidence. Genocide deniers should be shunned and ignored. This will probably require a review of what the various world agencies define as genocide and then apply them to situation and look closely at the pettifogging Tomndebb has committed. Oh, and to the people who want me banned or otherwise warned for this post, I’d like to get this in first: I dislike racism and racists and disapprove of genocide in general, and the genocide that the US is funding and Israel is conducting in Gaza against the Palestinian people and has been for five decades. The thousands and thousands of deaths, destroyed homes, punitive collective punishments bombings and shellings, constant libels and other actions support the claim of genocide. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-a-genocide-denier/696561/10 "2014-08-26T17:07:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > [Certainly seems](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=564868) like **The Second Stone** has had [a thing](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=520365) against **tomndebb** for [quite a while](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=500491). Yes, I have, and it is reciprocated. Go to the links and you will see why I think so. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-a-genocide-denier/696561/11 "2014-08-26T17:12:28Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Maybe you could get a mod to change the spelling in the thread title? Well, fuck me running. And I did it throughout the OP, too. Reported to request fixing. My humblest apologies, **tom~** , and even more to **~debb**. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-a-genocide-denier/696561/12 "2014-08-26T17:25:16Z")
I’m glad that we finally have a thread in which we can discuss the Israel/Palestine conflict out in the open, so we can get it resolved. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-a-genocide-denier/696561/13 "2014-08-26T17:25:28Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > That last link includes the following comment from **tomndebb** :That proves it! Mods _are_ Nazis!!! :eek::smack::dubious: I thought the jackboots made that obvious. Just as obvious is the fact that **The Second Stone** is a few tacos short of a combination plate. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-a-genocide-denier/696561/14 "2014-08-26T17:27:07Z")
Andros: Thank you for starting the thread. Really. In this world, we are entitled to our opinions, and grown ups are not entitled to dismiss facts. The facts are, we have thousands of dead bodies, its been going on half a century, it isn’t about to change, except go through stages of getting worse from time to time, and these people are treated as sub-human, their eye-witness reports of how the murders have happened are dismissed as lies by people who have no contrary evidence while we have the bodies with bullets right there. And we have the pettifoggers who come in and libel and slander each eyewitness, accept any criticism against each eyewitness as dispositive that nothing wrong happened while we at least figuratively have the body with the bullets not quite cold. In the last set of links, I included video of two boys/young men, walking with their hands at their sides while they are assassinated by rifle fire. That isn’t warfare, that is murder. I’ve linked to a video of a 48 apartment 12 story building blown to pieces and toppled by rockets to supposedly get to a command center in one apartment. This is different from the WTC 9/11 attacks only in that it was an apartment building for residential uses. It is a crime to destroy whole buildings that may be occupied. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-a-genocide-denier/696561/15 "2014-08-26T17:32:06Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I’m glad that we finally have a thread in which we can discuss the Israel/Palestine conflict out in the open, so we can get it resolved. All we need now is a gun control thread, and we’ll be all set! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-a-genocide-denier/696561/16 "2014-08-26T17:34:07Z")
If Israel is a genocider, they have to be the worstest genocider, everrrrrrrrr. What with the Palestinian population growth rates being one of the highest in the world. How do you say “You got some 'splainin” to do" in Hebrew? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-a-genocide-denier/696561/17 "2014-08-26T17:40:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Jackmannii J > That last link includes the following comment from tomndebb: > > > [@](#): > > > > As a Mod, I am interested in order, not justice. > > That proves it! Mods are Nazis!!! No, it doesn’t prove the mods or even Tomndebb are Nazis. Assuming it is a correct quote, it is strong evidence that Tomndebb, as a Moderator is not interested in justice. I’d argue that is Tomndebb’s style as a poster too. Justice is a basic concern of people trying to be human. Order without justice is dehumanizing. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-a-genocide-denier/696561/18 "2014-08-26T17:41:49Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I’m glad that we finally have a thread in which we can discuss the Israel/Palestine conflict out in the open, so we can get it resolved. Is that not a worthy topic to discuss, or should we ignore it and keep funding the killing? ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-a-genocide-denier/696561/19 "2014-08-26T17:43:38Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > All we need now is a gun control thread, and we’ll be all set! We could also use one on workplace griping. That would be good. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-a-genocide-denier/696561/20 "2014-08-26T17:52:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If Israel is a genocider, they have to be the worstest genocider, everrrrrrrrr. What with the Palestinian population growth rates being one of the highest in the world. How do you say “You got some 'splainin” to do" in Hebrew? Interesting question. Extreme stress increases birth rates, particularly during wartime. [http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2770960?uid=2&uid=4&sid=21104625437573](http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2770960?uid=2&uid=4&sid=21104625437573) > **[War and the Birth Rate—A Brief Historical Summary](https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1625481/)** Here are world statistics of birthrates, Gaza is only listed once: > **[List of countries by total fertility rate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_fertility_rate)** > > This is a list of all sovereign states and dependencies by total fertility rate (TFR): the expected number of children born per woman in her child-bearing years. > The first lists show the most recent year where there is published total fertility rate (TFR) data ranked by sovereign states and dependencies, and are ordered by organization type – intergovernmental, governmental, or non-governmental organization that searched, organized, and published the data. > Country ranking by most recent years... [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-a-genocide-denier/696561.md?page=2)