# Tomndebb is one weaselly mother fucker… **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 12, 2007, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569 "2007-03-12T06:48:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/381 "2007-03-14T15:02:01Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] You answered a grand total of **two** non-Christain-bashing questions, four years ago. [/quote] He was also told four years ago to knock it off with the Polycarp stalking. By an _admin_. […shrug…] ---
**Author:** ![badchad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b77776/32.png) [@badchad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badchad)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/382 "2007-03-14T15:02:46Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] In point of fact: I used to be extremely hostile in my posts towards fundamentalists and other conservative evangelicals, due to what I perceived as their self-righteous attitude that they and only they were “real” Christians who were, of course, doing God’s will in ostracizing gays, rabbit-punching atheists with their Bibles, etc. ( **Badchad** pointed out the inconsistency in doing this while preaching a Christianity of acceptance and non-judgmentalism, and I’ve now modified my approach to, uh, “hate the sin but love the sinner” ;)) [/quote] I’m glad I could help you. > [@](#): > > However, in the course of that exchange he made it clear that what had motivated him was the fact that his parents were fundamentalists, and I was in effect attacking them personally. However what? My parents are very nice people, misguided though they are. > [@](#): > > That was obviously rhetorical, but my point should be clear: Challenges to what I believe based on content are fine by me; I’ll answer to the extent I’m able. What I find totally unacceptable in **Badchad** rhetoric is the insistence on ongoing snide remarks and rhetorical questions of the wife-beating sort (is there a name for that trope in rhetoric, by the way?). What challenges do you think I have made of the wife beating sort? > [@](#): > > But I understand his motivations, and actually care about what they’ve done to him. That’s condescending. When you say stuff like that, it really makes me want to be condescending back. If I recall, in our last exchange, you didn’t like that none too much at all. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/383 "2007-03-14T15:03:03Z")
[QUOTE=badchad] Also are you now willing to admit that there is no rule against suggesting two other posters start a new thread on a given topic? [/QUOTE] We’ve never been fond of “let’s you and him fight,” the popular board game indulged elsewhere. We reduce or downright eliminate it here whenever possible.[TubaDiva](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6806882&postcount=23) ---
**Author:** ![badchad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b77776/32.png) [@badchad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badchad)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/384 "2007-03-14T15:04:47Z")
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison] However, as a very very recently ex-liberal-Christian, I too am starting to believe liberal Christians may be a greater danger than fundamentalist ones. [/quote] Tell me more. > [@](#): > > Of course, that doesn’t explain badchad’s insistence on using only fundamentalist “scholarship” and so on, or excuse badchad’s stalkery… You can ask me about both if you want. ---
**Author:** ![badchad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b77776/32.png) [@badchad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badchad)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/385 "2007-03-14T15:12:38Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] **In 2003**. You answered a grand total of **two** non-Christain-bashing questions, four years ago. Prove your hypothetical onlooker exists. The fact that you didn’t recognize it for what it was doesn’t mean that it failed. It means you’re not as smart as you think you are. . . . And your talent is baton, your cause is kitten rescue and your gown is by Dior. There is NO evidence you are ANYTHING other than a meanspirited one-trick pony. To claim at this late date and in this context that you have other interests is risible. No one here gives a shit what interests you have IRL, because we don’t know you IRL; we only know you here. And HERE you are the worst example of a one-trick pony to come down the pike since Jack Dean Tyler. Fair? Sure. But the truth is that only one of us actually cares about the answers. Again, the point isn’t _if_ you have other interests or _what_ those interests are, but that there is absolutely no evidence HERE for them even existing. That pretty much gives a lie to your belated protestations that, hey, that isn’t all there is to you. That IS all there is to you. And FTR, I don’t think **badchad** is a troll. I think he’s a jerk. I have no idea why TPTB have not banned him, but those decisions are why they get paid the Big Bucks, right? It’s not really my intention to lobby to have him banned. I’m sure my opinion has been adequately conveyed, so I’ll leave the rest of you to the rest of this thread. [/QUOTE] Jodi, I have to think that you are not a very good lawyer. You arguing about things that really don’t matter and you aren’t very good at it. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/386 "2007-03-14T15:54:46Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > What I find totally unacceptable in Badchad rhetoric is the insistence on ongoing snide remarks and rhetorical questions of the wife-beating sort (is there a name for that trope in rhetoric, by the way?). I thought the technical name for it is _argumentum ad rectum_, but I could be mistaken. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/387 "2007-03-14T16:00:08Z")
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman] **tomndebb** , the last statement actually refers to the other thread about you. :smack: [/QUOTE] Actually, the way this thread is running, (and the way **badchad** ’s last attempt went), I’m not sure I’m allowed to include either of these, either. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/388 "2007-03-14T16:03:29Z")
[QUOTE=badchad] Tell me more. [/quote] I’m thinking of starting a GD thread about it, but in essence, I think the fundamentalists have as much power as they do because the liberal-to-moderates allow it. If there were no liberal or moderate Christians, the fundamentalists would just be another crazy cult nobody paid much attention to. > [@](#): > > You can ask me about both if you want. I don’t need to. In the case of Polycarp, you’ve articulated your motivations and explained your actions very clearly. Based on your own statements, I think targeting him was rude, gross and irrational, and no amount of further explanation on your part will change my mind. I also understand why you stick to fundamentalist sources; you believe that if you can show people what their holy book “really” says and stands for, they will realize they’ve been inventing a new religion and slapping some kind of historical validity on it, just like Gardener did with Wicca. I think it’s a bum tactic and you’d be better off showing people how the sources they wish to use to justify their revisions are not as historically accurate as the ones you rely on. I don’t even know if you can do that, but if you can, that’s what you should do. ---
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/389 "2007-03-14T16:37:15Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Actually, the way this thread is running, (and the way **badchad** ’s last attempt went), I’m not sure I’m allowed to include either of these, either. [/QUOTE] If losing two points is not the straw that broke the camel’s back for a **badchad** banning, then I don’t know what else could be. **Ensign Edison** , are you reading/have read Sam Harris’s End of Faith? ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/390 "2007-03-14T16:57:18Z")
No, FordPrefect, but I’ll look for it now, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/391 "2007-03-14T17:26:17Z")
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison] No, FordPrefect, but I’ll look for it now, thanks. [/QUOTE] I am reading it now (sporadically), and it is quite enjoyable. The reason I asked was, “I think the fundamentalists have as much power as they do because the liberal-to-moderates allow it.” is one of the points he makes in the book. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/392 "2007-03-14T18:40:26Z")
The book may be obsolete. The power that evangelicals (not necessarily fundamentalists) might have had, which I believe was facilitated in large part by a ratings conscious media (nutjobs make more interesting guests than moderates), [appears to be waning](http://www.economist.com/printedition/displayStory.cfm?story_id=8776546&fsrc=RSS). Even the GOP is [losing its hold](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/05/AR2006100501763.html) over them. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/393 "2007-03-14T18:49:42Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] The book may be obsolete. The power that evangelicals (not necessarily fundamentalists) might have had, which I believe was facilitated in large part by a ratings conscious media (nutjobs make more interesting guests than moderates), [appears to be waning](http://www.economist.com/printedition/displayStory.cfm?story_id=8776546&fsrc=RSS). Even the GOP is [losing its hold](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/05/AR2006100501763.html) over them. [/QUOTE] When same-sex couples can get married legally, we can talk about what’s obsolete. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/394 "2007-03-14T19:09:22Z")
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison] When same-sex couples can get married legally, we can talk about what’s obsolete. [/QUOTE] Laying the blame for that soley on fundamentalists is a mistake. Last year, the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force returned a contribution made by the Democratic Party because Howard Dean, as DNC chairman, has failed to support gay rights. I suspect that part of the reason why Dean is so shy about the issue is the overwhelming opposition to gay marriage by blacks, who of course represent a huge block of Democratic Party support. Appearances at black churches have always been a mainstay of Democratic presidential campaigns. And don’t forget that Bill Clinton had promised unequivocally to promote rights for gays, including gays in the military. The policy he actually inacted resulted in more gays discharged than ever before. Attacking fundamentalists on account of gays being unable to marry is like sitting around in filth and complaining that the neighbors need to clean up their house. ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/395 "2007-03-14T19:20:57Z")
Yea, blame the democrats instead. ---
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/396 "2007-03-14T19:23:12Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] The book may be obsolete. The power that evangelicals (not necessarily fundamentalists) might have had, which I believe was facilitated in large part by a ratings conscious media (nutjobs make more interesting guests than moderates) [/QUOTE] You should read the book, I don’t think that is the claim Harris makes. His argument that religious moderates (of all faiths) empower the fundamentalists by not being a bulwark against the extremism. He claims that the moderates can’t argue against the extremists using spiritual terms since they both believe in the same God. The fundamentalist views the moderate as weak and/or heretical. The moderate can’t argue from a Biblical (or Qu’ranic (sp?)) perspective because the fundamentalist will likely have a better grasp of the Bible, but will tend to a more literal interpretation. I am not saying Harris is right, and I am only 50 odd pages in, but he raises an interesting question(s) about tolerance of faith. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/397 "2007-03-14T19:24:22Z")
[QUOTE=Caridwen] Yea, blame the democrats instead. [/QUOTE] I think that’s a jump to the other extreme. There’s plenty enough blame to go around for everybody. Part of the reason that progress cannot be made on this issue is that people care more about blame than about progress. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/398 "2007-03-14T19:26:06Z")
[QUOTE=FordPrefect] He claims that the moderates can’t argue against the extremists using spiritual terms since they both believe in the same God. [/QUOTE] But that’s a false claim. I used spiritual terms to convince my sister, a fundamentalist Christian, that her opposition to gay marriage is morally wrong. She no longer opposes it. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/399 "2007-03-14T19:30:03Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Attacking fundamentalists on account of gays being unable to marry is like sitting around in filth and complaining that the neighbors need to clean up their house. [/QUOTE] That was part of my point, Lib, though if you’re implying that I’m not taking enough personal responsibility in getting my own equal rights, I cordially invite you to stuff it and set it on fire. If by “filth” you mean “the Democrats”, right. I’m not sitting in it, so the analogy doesn’t apply. Part of the problem is that almost the only people who openly say “I am against gay marriage” are fundamentalists, but they’re obviously far from the only people who feel that way. I believe some part of the vast majority of more moderate Christians are hiding in the shadow of the fundamentalists to avoid confrontations they should be making. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/400 "2007-03-14T19:31:21Z")
Why does badchad still have “member” under his name and not “banned”? 😕 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569.md?page=21)