# Tomndebb is one weaselly mother fucker… **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 12, 2007, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569 "2007-03-12T06:48:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/481 "2007-03-15T11:48:13Z")
[QUOTE=badchad] I think it was **Meatros** who announced he converted to atheism a short while after I first started my debate with **Polycarp** and **Meatros** had earlier been one of **Poly’s** and liberal Christianities defenders. I don’t know if he would have admitted I was a factor, but the timing was about right. [/QUOTE] That would be a negative. I believe I deconverted a few months after you arrived - but the exact time frame is up for debate I suppose. My deconversion didn’t really have anything to do with you - at least not overtly. I’d say you were no more a factor then any other atheist I might have encountered. Actually I might go so far as to say that you were actually less of a factor, since from what I remember your attacks were primarily aimed at Polycarp and - at least at the time - seemed mean spirited. Because of that I remember skimming most of your posts, if not outright ignoring them. In all fairness, it has been quite a while so I might have interacted more with you in this regard - but if so I don’t recall. What I do recall as being the main instigator to my migration from faith was running across a website that linked the bible with Astrology. I’ve since found that the information is highly questionable at best - but at the time it shook me, simply because I had never even considered something that radical. After that site I had to find out more, so I researched early Christian histories and philosophy and my faith departed. I posted on IIDB about it [here](http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=62276) and [here.](http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=63419) In summary, you didn’t lead me to deconvert Badchad. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/482 "2007-03-15T11:53:15Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] This is interesting, because not only did **Meatros** deconvert, he also _disappeared_. Are you interested in taking the credit for that also? [/QUOTE] Hi Mangetout - it’s been quite a while! Just to clear things up - I didnt deconvert because of Badchad and nor did I ‘disappear’ because of him. My disappearance was brought about because of ever escalating work pressures. As you recall I used to moderate the messageboard DarwinTalk, but because of work pressures I had to take time off from it and eventually I told the admin that I could no longer function in my duties. By the time I got a handle on my new pressures, I found out that my membership here had expired. I still don’t have a lot of time to post - so usually I just post on myspace, since the discussions there aren’t as intense and time consuming (sometimes they are, but usually not). In any event, I found out through the grape vine that Badchad was taking credit for my deconversion so I wanted to set the record straight. I found that the ‘rejoining’ process wasn’t nearly as difficult as I imagined. For whatever reason I assumed that because my membership had lapsed that I was deleted from the mainframe. I’m glad that’s not the case. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/483 "2007-03-15T12:15:17Z")
Hey, it’s good to see you back! ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/484 "2007-03-15T12:22:49Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] Is it diminishing your enjoyment of the board? 😃 [/QUOTE] Hehe Loved it. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/485 "2007-03-15T12:34:26Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Hardly an argument; simply an observation. You have spent numerous posts pretending that because **Monty** referred to your stupidity, he was calling you a fool and that this was in direct violation of a specific statement by Jesus. **Monty** cryptically pointed out your error and you were too lazy to note that he had refuted your baseless claim. (The misspelling, of course, was unfortunate, but any search of Google using _rakah_ and _fool_ would bring back the correct spelling.) Working backward, stupidity is not identical to being a fool, so your claim that if he referred to your stupidity he was calling you a fool is simply an attempt on your part to dishonestly conflate two words just to let you attempt to make a rhetorical point. Then, there is the problem that the verse does not say “if you call your brother **a** fool . . .” but “if you call your brother _rhaka_. . .” In other words, the threatened punishment is not for simply saying that a person is idiotic, it is for expressly naming that person “Fool” (further indicated by the author of Matthew’s transliteration of the Aramiac word, rather than simply writing it in Greek). Since your position is that the text must be taken literally, unless **Monty** explicitly calls you “Rhaka” (or even “Empty-headed” or “Fool”) you have lied when you accused him of having violated the admonition of Jesus. [/QUOTE] FTR I just noticed **BC** asking **DtC** about preferred Bible translations and study helps in another thread. I remember having a discussion with him months back about his use of the KJV which is widely recognized as a less accurate translation. Even though I wouldn’t expect him to just admit his mistake evidently he has learned something from being on the boards and having this kind of thing pointed out to him repeatedly. When he gets his newly ordered Bible he’ll read it while playing the Johnny Cash version of “I’m just an ole chunk of coal now Lord but I’m gonna be a diamond someday” I get all misty just thinking about it. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/486 "2007-03-15T14:10:13Z")
Actually, while I hesitate to say I’ve been “driven away”, I have pretty much stopped participating in threads about religion since **badchad** started posting regularly. You see, I’m from a similar tradition to **Polycarp** ’s and I attend a quite liberal Episcopal church. I got tired of being attacked based on a tradition I haven’t actually encountered in real life (the closest I’ve come is a church led by a defrocked Baptist minister) and which isn’t something any of my friends, relatives or acquaintances practices as far as I know. The stance from which **badchad** has attacked my beliefs is, quite literally, foreign to me. My own religious beliefs also say that responding to insults in kind is wrong (I admit to having slipped a few times there). Therefore, if I choose to continue to participate in threads on Christianity, I find I’m accused of having beliefs I do not and cannot hold. Since the temptation to respond to some of the more vicious attacks in kind is rather too great for comfort, I’ve chosen not to participate any more. I’ve learned a lot from discussions on religion on this board and I am grateful to those I’ve learned from. Unfortunately, I find the current climate is no longer conducive to learning, at least not for me. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/487 "2007-03-15T14:19:54Z")
[QUOTE=badchad] I realize my arguments have few weaknesses and as such you have to modify them to respond [/QUOTE] Wow. You’re not just a tool, you actually need psychiatric help. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/488 "2007-03-15T14:26:24Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] Wow. You’re not just a tool, you actually need psychiatric help. [/QUOTE] One good thing about such a polarizing force in the community is that people with vastly different viewpoints in some regards, like you and me, can come together over something else. If Badchad were on my side defending my beliefs and attacking yours, I would be mortified with embarrassment. What’s so great about the Dope is that people like me have learned that his bullshit in no way reflects on atheists or atheism in general. In fact, I’m not even sure he is an atheist because you first have to believe in God in order to hate Him that much. ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/489 "2007-03-15T14:36:41Z")
I’m not sure you can cure this level of megalomania. **badchad** ’s world is a perfectly contained construct in which arguing with him automatically makes you wrong, ergo asking him to change is wrong, therefore proving to him that he is already right. Sprinkle liberally with semantics, disingenuousness and outright dishonesty. Lather, rinse, repeat. Hell, after 10 pages, he probably doesn’t even think he’s getting his ass handed to him. By **Liberal** , especially. It’s liking watching a mongoose handle a cobra. Wait, not a cobra, the other thing. A potato. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/490 "2007-03-15T14:41:02Z")
Good to see you back, **Meatros**. ---
**Author:** ![badchad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b77776/32.png) [@badchad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badchad)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/491 "2007-03-15T14:55:51Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] But I thought you _weren’t_ a Christian. Is it diminishing your enjoyment of the board? 😃 [/QUOTE] Not really. I’m just trying to figure out if you are admitting to trolling [the real kind] or just as stupid as you sound. ---
**Author:** ![badchad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b77776/32.png) [@badchad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badchad)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/492 "2007-03-15T15:39:43Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] **Monty** cryptically pointed out your error and you were too lazy to note that he had refuted your baseless claim. (The misspelling, of course, was unfortunate, but any search of Google using _rakah_ and _fool_ would bring back the correct spelling.) [/quote] Well that’s fine. And as **DtC** pointed out that word means “senseless” which to me sounds like another synonym for foolish or stupid. Trying out that new website **DtC** directed me too I see that is the case: > **[Bible Search and Study Tools - Blue Letter Bible](https://www.blueletterbible.org/)** > > Read and study God's Word with Bible study software that has in-depth resources such as commentaries, Greek and Hebrew word tools, concordances, and more. Also looking up “fool” I got “moros” this, just as **DtC** referred to, though it seems the authors there seem more certain that fool, in fact means fool. > **[Bible Search and Study Tools - Blue Letter Bible](https://www.blueletterbible.org/)** > > Read and study God's Word with Bible study software that has in-depth resources such as commentaries, Greek and Hebrew word tools, concordances, and more. > [@](#): > > Working backward, stupidity is not identical to being a fool, so your claim that if he referred to your stupidity he was calling you a fool is simply an attempt on your part to dishonestly conflate two words just to let you attempt to make a rhetorical point. Are you really going to argue that being stupid and being a fool are different? Or are you just arguing tenses. Cause at [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com) I get: Stupidity: 1. the state, quality, or fact of being stupid. 2. a stupid act, notion, speech, etc. Looking up stupid I get: 1. lacking ordinary quickness and keenness of mind; dull. 2. characterized by or proceeding from mental dullness; foolish; senseless: a stupid question. 3. tediously dull, esp. due to lack of meaning or sense; inane; pointless: a stupid party. 4. annoying or irritating; troublesome: Turn off that stupid radio. 5. in a state of stupor; stupefied: stupid from fatigue. 6. Slang. excellent; terrific. –noun 7. Informal. a stupid person. Notice in the definition above we both have “foolish” the word used for “moros” linked to in the blue letter bible, and also “senseless” which both the blue letter bible and **DtC** said means rakah (one of the words in question). > [@](#): > > Then, there is the problem that the verse does not say “if you call your brother **a** fool . . .” but “if you call your brother _rhaka_. . .” In other words, the threatened punishment is not for simply saying that a person is idiotic, it is for expressly naming that person “Fool” (further indicated by the author of Matthew’s transliteration of the Aramiac word, rather than simply writing it in Greek). Here’s the verse as already posted by **DtC** … _“But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, **Raca** [Gr. sp. rhaka] shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, **Thou fool** , shall be in danger of hell fire.”_ …torture it as you will, just don’t think your fooling me, and if Jesus weren’t dead as Dillinger, I don’t think you would fool him either. > [@](#): > > Since your position is that the text must be taken literally, unless **Monty** explicitly calls you “Rhaka” (or even “Empty-headed” or “Fool”) you have lied when you accused him of having violated the admonition of Jesus. I don’t take the bible that literally, and never have I indicated as much, and I bet you don’t either. When it says “though shalt not steal” you wouldn’t suggest that it’s ok to embezzle or pilfer. Or would you? Clever word games though **tom**. With that kind of talk it’s no wonder you liberal Christians can live by any rules you want to. I would expect nothing less from such a weaselly mother fucker. ---
**Author:** ![badchad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b77776/32.png) [@badchad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badchad)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/493 "2007-03-15T15:54:37Z")
[QUOTE=Meatros] That would be a negative. I believe I deconverted a few months after you arrived - but the exact time frame is up for debate I suppose. My deconversion didn’t really have anything to do with you - at least not overtly. I’d say you were no more a factor then any other atheist I might have encountered. [/quote] I’m glad to have been a factor, if not an overt one. As I said, I’m not sure you would give me any credit, since I recall you didn’t like me none too much. And yes, I realize our claims about my influence are of the unfalsifiable sort, so I’ll just say the timing was very coincidental, and so was our subject matter, as I don’t recall anyone else putting the screws to your type of faith at that time. > [@](#): > > Actually I might go so far as to say that you were actually less of a factor, since from what I remember your attacks were primarily aimed at Polycarp and - at least at the time - seemed mean spirited. Because of that I remember skimming most of your posts, if not outright ignoring them. No, we did have numerous discourses. I think I remember them pretty well. I think you took offence to having the gall to say faith was a bad thing. I bet that sounds funny to you now. > [@](#): > > In all fairness, it has been quite a while so I might have interacted more with you in this regard - but if so I don’t recall. Yeah, you did. > [@](#): > > What I do recall as being the main instigator to my migration from faith was running across a website that linked the bible with Astrology. I’ve since found that the information is highly questionable at best - but at the time it shook me, simply because I had never even considered something that radical. After that site I had to find out more, so I researched early Christian histories and philosophy and my faith departed. I posted on IIDB about it [here](http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=62276) and [here.](http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=63419) > > In summary, you didn’t lead me to deconvert Badchad. You know I’d be inclined to take you at your word, however when I read the second link you post above, I don’t see you talking much about astrology but rather a list of objections which look very familiar to the ones I was making to you in our discussion and right beside you (in the same thread) as I was talking to **Polycarp** and others. I’d encourage anyone to go back and read that stuff, as I really think that was some of my best work. Glad to see you back, and lets chalk up $14.95 to the SDMB, for me. You will admit I was the primary influenced there, right? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/494 "2007-03-15T15:56:15Z")
[QUOTE=badchad] Not really. I’m just trying to figure out if you are admitting to trolling [the real kind] or just as stupid as you sound. [/QUOTE] How can **Brian** be admitting to trolling when you claim _you_ haven’t admitted to trolling? ---
**Author:** ![badchad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b77776/32.png) [@badchad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badchad)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/495 "2007-03-15T15:57:17Z")
[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher] How can **Brian** be admitting to trolling when you claim _you_ haven’t admitted to trolling? [/QUOTE] My arguments are sincere. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/496 "2007-03-15T16:02:15Z")
[QUOTE=badchad] I would expect nothing less from such a weaselly mother fucker. [/QUOTE] Takes one to know one. You can only make your point by: 1. Noting that “rhaka” and “moros” are two different words in Greek that are _not_ synonymous, having two different definitions; 2. Translating them into English; 3. Deciding that translated into English they _may_ be synonymous; and therefore 4. Concluding that when translated back into Greek they must be synonymous. . . . . Even though you yourself admit that in Greek they _aren’t_ synonymous. IOW, there is a failure in translation. There are not different words in English that fully convey the meaning of _rhaka_ (especially as used as an insult) and the meaning of “moros,” and so the same English word is used. So what’s the phrase for someone who acknowledges that the source material was written in a different language, using non-synonymous words, but insists that the source material be interpreted in translation, using synonymous words? Ah, yes: weaselly motherfucker. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/497 "2007-03-15T16:02:47Z")
[QUOTE=badchad] My arguments are sincere. [/QUOTE] Once can be sincere, or _claim_ to be sincere, and still be a troll. Perhaps you missed those Stormfront invasions? ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/498 "2007-03-15T16:07:30Z")
[QUOTE=badchad] Glad to see you back, and lets chalk up $14.95 to the SDMB, for me. You will admit I was the primary influenced there, right? [/QUOTE] Well, sure he will! You can totally see the admission of your influence, right where he said _“My deconversion didn’t really have anything to do with you . . . I’d say you were no more a factor then any other atheist I might have encountered”_ and _“In summary, you didn’t lead me to deconvert Badchad”_. Put another one in the “win” column. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/499 "2007-03-15T16:13:53Z")
I think **badchad** must have contacted **Meatros** privately - prompting him to consider returning - I think that’s what he’s talking about there, **Jodi** (although it’s clear he does disagree with **Meatros** ’ denial that he was instrumental in his deconversion). ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2007, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569/500 "2007-03-15T16:17:12Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] I think **badchad** must have contacted **Meatros** privately - prompting him to consider returning - I think that’s what he’s talking about there, **Jodi** (although it’s clear he does disagree with **Meatros** ’ denial that he was instrumental in his deconversion). [/QUOTE] Or possibly someone else Emailed **Meatros** that badchad was spreading misinformation about him and thus this led to **Meatros** signing back up. ETA: I suspect this is not a business model that the SDMB is striving towards. Jim [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-is-one-weaselly-mother-fucker/395569.md?page=26)