That would be a negative. I believe I deconverted a few months after you arrived - but the exact time frame is up for debate I suppose. My deconversion didn’t really have anything to do with you - at least not overtly. I’d say you were no more a factor then any other atheist I might have encountered.
Actually I might go so far as to say that you were actually less of a factor, since from what I remember your attacks were primarily aimed at Polycarp and - at least at the time - seemed mean spirited. Because of that I remember skimming most of your posts, if not outright ignoring them.
In all fairness, it has been quite a while so I might have interacted more with you in this regard - but if so I don’t recall.
What I do recall as being the main instigator to my migration from faith was running across a website that linked the bible with Astrology. I’ve since found that the information is highly questionable at best - but at the time it shook me, simply because I had never even considered something that radical. After that site I had to find out more, so I researched early Christian histories and philosophy and my faith departed. I posted on IIDB about it here and here.
In summary, you didn’t lead me to deconvert Badchad.
Just to clear things up - I didnt deconvert because of Badchad and nor did I ‘disappear’ because of him.
My disappearance was brought about because of ever escalating work pressures. As you recall I used to moderate the messageboard DarwinTalk, but because of work pressures I had to take time off from it and eventually I told the admin that I could no longer function in my duties.
By the time I got a handle on my new pressures, I found out that my membership here had expired.
I still don’t have a lot of time to post - so usually I just post on myspace, since the discussions there aren’t as intense and time consuming (sometimes they are, but usually not).
In any event, I found out through the grape vine that Badchad was taking credit for my deconversion so I wanted to set the record straight. I found that the ‘rejoining’ process wasn’t nearly as difficult as I imagined. For whatever reason I assumed that because my membership had lapsed that I was deleted from the mainframe. I’m glad that’s not the case.
FTR I just noticed BC asking DtC about preferred Bible translations and study helps in another thread. I remember having a discussion with him months back about his use of the KJV which is widely recognized as a less accurate translation. Even though I wouldn’t expect him to just admit his mistake evidently he has learned something from being on the boards and having this kind of thing pointed out to him repeatedly.
When he gets his newly ordered Bible he’ll read it while playing the Johnny Cash version of “I’m just an ole chunk of coal now Lord but I’m gonna be a diamond someday” I get all misty just thinking about it.
Actually, while I hesitate to say I’ve been “driven away”, I have pretty much stopped participating in threads about religion since badchad started posting regularly. You see, I’m from a similar tradition to Polycarp’s and I attend a quite liberal Episcopal church. I got tired of being attacked based on a tradition I haven’t actually encountered in real life (the closest I’ve come is a church led by a defrocked Baptist minister) and which isn’t something any of my friends, relatives or acquaintances practices as far as I know. The stance from which badchad has attacked my beliefs is, quite literally, foreign to me. My own religious beliefs also say that responding to insults in kind is wrong (I admit to having slipped a few times there). Therefore, if I choose to continue to participate in threads on Christianity, I find I’m accused of having beliefs I do not and cannot hold. Since the temptation to respond to some of the more vicious attacks in kind is rather too great for comfort, I’ve chosen not to participate any more.
I’ve learned a lot from discussions on religion on this board and I am grateful to those I’ve learned from. Unfortunately, I find the current climate is no longer conducive to learning, at least not for me.
One good thing about such a polarizing force in the community is that people with vastly different viewpoints in some regards, like you and me, can come together over something else. If Badchad were on my side defending my beliefs and attacking yours, I would be mortified with embarrassment. What’s so great about the Dope is that people like me have learned that his bullshit in no way reflects on atheists or atheism in general. In fact, I’m not even sure he is an atheist because you first have to believe in God in order to hate Him that much.
I’m not sure you can cure this level of megalomania. badchad’s world is a perfectly contained construct in which arguing with him automatically makes you wrong, ergo asking him to change is wrong, therefore proving to him that he is already right. Sprinkle liberally with semantics, disingenuousness and outright dishonesty. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Hell, after 10 pages, he probably doesn’t even think he’s getting his ass handed to him. By Liberal, especially. It’s liking watching a mongoose handle a cobra. Wait, not a cobra, the other thing. A potato.
Well that’s fine. And as DtC pointed out that word means “senseless” which to me sounds like another synonym for foolish or stupid. Trying out that new website DtC directed me too I see that is the case:
Also looking up “fool” I got “moros” this, just as DtC referred to, though it seems the authors there seem more certain that fool, in fact means fool.
Are you really going to argue that being stupid and being a fool are different? Or are you just arguing tenses. Cause at dictionary.com I get:
Stupidity:
the state, quality, or fact of being stupid.
a stupid act, notion, speech, etc.
Looking up stupid I get:
lacking ordinary quickness and keenness of mind; dull.
characterized by or proceeding from mental dullness; foolish; senseless: a stupid question.
tediously dull, esp. due to lack of meaning or sense; inane; pointless: a stupid party.
annoying or irritating; troublesome: Turn off that stupid radio.
in a state of stupor; stupefied: stupid from fatigue.
Slang. excellent; terrific.
–noun 7. Informal. a stupid person.
Notice in the definition above we both have “foolish” the word used for “moros” linked to in the blue letter bible, and also “senseless” which both the blue letter bible and DtC said means rakah (one of the words in question).
Here’s the verse as already posted by DtC…
“But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca [Gr. sp. rhaka] shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.”
…torture it as you will, just don’t think your fooling me, and if Jesus weren’t dead as Dillinger, I don’t think you would fool him either.
I don’t take the bible that literally, and never have I indicated as much, and I bet you don’t either. When it says “though shalt not steal” you wouldn’t suggest that it’s ok to embezzle or pilfer. Or would you?
Clever word games though tom. With that kind of talk it’s no wonder you liberal Christians can live by any rules you want to. I would expect nothing less from such a weaselly mother fucker.
I’m glad to have been a factor, if not an overt one. As I said, I’m not sure you would give me any credit, since I recall you didn’t like me none too much. And yes, I realize our claims about my influence are of the unfalsifiable sort, so I’ll just say the timing was very coincidental, and so was our subject matter, as I don’t recall anyone else putting the screws to your type of faith at that time.
No, we did have numerous discourses. I think I remember them pretty well. I think you took offence to having the gall to say faith was a bad thing. I bet that sounds funny to you now.
Yeah, you did.
You know I’d be inclined to take you at your word, however when I read the second link you post above, I don’t see you talking much about astrology but rather a list of objections which look very familiar to the ones I was making to you in our discussion and right beside you (in the same thread) as I was talking to Polycarp and others. I’d encourage anyone to go back and read that stuff, as I really think that was some of my best work.
Glad to see you back, and lets chalk up $14.95 to the SDMB, for me. You will admit I was the primary influenced there, right?
Takes one to know one. You can only make your point by:
Noting that “rhaka” and “moros” are two different words in Greek that are not synonymous, having two different definitions;
Translating them into English;
Deciding that translated into English they may be synonymous; and therefore
Concluding that when translated back into Greek they must be synonymous.
. . . . Even though you yourself admit that in Greek they aren’t synonymous.
IOW, there is a failure in translation. There are not different words in English that fully convey the meaning of rhaka (especially as used as an insult) and the meaning of “moros,” and so the same English word is used.
So what’s the phrase for someone who acknowledges that the source material was written in a different language, using non-synonymous words, but insists that the source material be interpreted in translation, using synonymous words?
Well, sure he will! You can totally see the admission of your influence, right where he said “My deconversion didn’t really have anything to do with you . . . I’d say you were no more a factor then any other atheist I might have encountered” and “In summary, you didn’t lead me to deconvert Badchad”.
I think badchad must have contacted Meatros privately - prompting him to consider returning - I think that’s what he’s talking about there, Jodi (although it’s clear he does disagree with Meatros’ denial that he was instrumental in his deconversion).