# tomndebb, please explain why I was noted for saying Jew-bros. **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [October 31, 2015, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248 "2015-10-31T08:26:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/101 "2015-11-01T01:08:02Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I think the mistake most of you are making is that the word “Jew” is offensive to some people. No one said that it was, so no one is making that mistake. > [@](#): > > I could find no link on ADL that refers to “Jew” as defamatory. I’m going to accept that they are the authority on this matter. However, "Dirty Jew, " when used by a boss, describing an employee, was clearly offensive in their opinion. Hard to argue with that. Let’s start with Jew-boy or Jew-Doctor. You don’t think those are offensive? ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/102 "2015-11-01T01:20:32Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I find that the best approach when I am demonstrably wrong about something is to dig in my heels and insist that everyone else is wrong and I am right, and simply wait for the world to align with my beliefs. > > Okay, maybe not the _best_, but it certainly is one option. Or you could check some sources and find that you are TOTALLY CORRECT and that among hair stylists, you know people who actually talk about hair and hairstyles, jewfro is not restricted to Jews. Which is why no one finds jewfro offensive, which was my original point. [http://www.manlycurls.com/2012/04/jewfro-curly-hairstyle-men-cool-stylish/](http://www.manlycurls.com/2012/04/jewfro-curly-hairstyle-men-cool-stylish/) ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/103 "2015-11-01T01:30:04Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Still finding it amusing that a complete neologism raised enough eyebrows to warrant a note but “thug” is just peachy… Lol. That’s because “thug” means someone who is a violent criminal. At least it does to me and the people I know. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/104 "2015-11-01T01:39:28Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > This isn’t true in any area of the US I have lived in, including the Northeast and West. (My college roommate was Jewish and had a jewfro.) > [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’ve never heard the term applied to someone who is not Jewish. If it were, I’d consider it a joke. Typically, the person tries to blend their actual ethnicity into “fro”. I’ve heard I-fro from an Irish guy. But never Jewfro form or towards someone not Jewish. > [@Colibri](#): > > It’s about the 40th image on the page, not one of the first. > > People may occasionally refer to non-Jews as having jewfros, but it’s not at all typical, and not really what the word refers to. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > [Urban Dictionary](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jewfro) disagrees. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I’ll join Mace and Colibri to add that I’ve never heard the term used in reference to someone who wasn’t Jewish. > > I’ll confess I myself wouldn’t feel comfortable using it but won’t get upset at Jews who like to make references to it. > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > I’m 35. I don’t use it that way. > > I don’t use it at all, although I think that’s beside the point. If I did, I’d think that using it to describe the hairstyle of anyone who doesn’t identify as Jewish would be wrong. In case any of you missed my response to VT: [http://www.manlycurls.com/2012/04/jewfro-curly-hairstyle-men-cool-stylish/](http://www.manlycurls.com/2012/04/jewfro-curly-hairstyle-men-cool-stylish/) ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/105 "2015-11-01T01:40:38Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No I don’t. You don’t have the ability to read my mind. Just try to consider the possibility that I’m being honest. Maybe it’s indeed possible that we disagree honestly on this without some deceitful motive. Is this really that impossible to you? Hmmmmm… And you don’t think anyone who uses a word properly might be actually using the word properly? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/106 "2015-11-01T01:46:01Z")
I am a Jew. I don’t find the noun offensive at all, just descriptive. I do find the construction “Jew noun” to generally be offensive. When I stumble upon a new usage of that sort, I wonder whether the person using it intends to insult me. Mr. Dibble, I have accidentally used language that was more racially charged than i realized. People told me, and I apologized and stopped using those words. That’d be my advice for you here, whether or not the mods or this message board allow it. And I’ve learned something new about recent usage of “thug”. I can guarantee you that’s not the use i learned, or have used the past, but words change. C’est la vie. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/107 "2015-11-01T02:01:10Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I think the mistake most of you are making is that the word “Jew” is offensive to some people. I could find no link on ADL that refers to “Jew” as defamatory. I’m going to accept that they are the authority on this matter. Ok, this is asinine and makes little sense to anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of the history of anti-Semitism. Despite phrase like “yid” “Judensau” etc. anti-Semites haven’t generally felt the need to think up epithets when referring to Jews. The term “Jew” was generally bad enough. Of course the term “Jew” can be used as an insult. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/108 "2015-11-01T02:07:45Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Hmmmmm… And you don’t think anyone who uses a word properly might be actually using the word properly? ??? This question is tautological. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/109 "2015-11-01T02:10:51Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > In case any of you missed my response to VT: Irrelevant. Most people don’t use it that way. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/110 "2015-11-01T02:14:54Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > ??? This question is tautological. You seem to throw around the that’s racist quite often when in fact people using a word might be using it correctly. You state you can’t read minds. Perhaps a bit of humility is in order. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/111 "2015-11-01T02:21:20Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You seem to throw around the that’s racist quite often when in fact people using a word might be using it correctly. You state you can’t read minds. Perhaps a bit of humility is in order. I’m not judging any people, just posts. People who aren’t racist can still say racist things. When that happens, I think it’s appropriate to point it out. If I say something that might be racist, I hope people point it out, because I want to improve myself. Sometimes I might make a mistake. If so, we can have a conversation about it. It’s not a huge deal – I say “I think you shouldn’t have said that because it’s racist/bigoted/etc.” they say “no, you misunderstand, and here’s why”, and then we can have a good conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/112 "2015-11-01T02:39:33Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Irrelevant. Most people don’t use it that way. I’ll let VT’s response speak for me: > [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I find that the best approach when I am demonstrably wrong about something is to dig in my heels and insist that everyone else is wrong and I am right, and simply wait for the world to align with my beliefs. > > Okay, maybe not the _best_, but it certainly is one option. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/113 "2015-11-01T02:53:59Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > At what point does my not being hooked in to the latest pronouncement of the language police mean that I (we, the people who are not aware or choose to ignore) am a racist, sexist, cis-genderist binary troglodyte? The language and the culture changes when it changes. You don’t get a pass for not noticing. True, there’s always the fuzziness of when change becomes so big that people will criticize you for not noticing its hugeness but when the change occurs it’s usually a huge wave of usage. No, it’s not always fair. > [@Grotonian](#): > > Or you could check some sources and find that you are TOTALLY CORRECT and that among hair stylists, you know people who actually talk about hair and hairstyles, jewfro is not restricted to Jews. Which is why no one finds jewfro offensive, which was my original point. > > [http://www.manlycurls.com/2012/04/jewfro-curly-hairstyle-men-cool-stylish/](http://www.manlycurls.com/2012/04/jewfro-curly-hairstyle-men-cool-stylish/) So what to do about this? I’m never heard anyone before this use jewfro for a non-Jew, nor have I ever seen a reference that made me think anybody in the world did before now. Neither has anyone else in this thread. Whether this is truly a change or a weird idiosyncrasy, though, the term is clearly not yet at the tipping point. Being able to find one cite on the Internet means nothing. The fact that jewfro is in common use and is not considered pejorative and is clearly distinguishable from jewboy makes the silliness of equating jewbro with Jew-Doctor equally clear. I like the coinage of jewbro. He-bro should be ever better, maybe more so if spelled heb-bro (which makes the derivation more apparent). But jewbro is instantly understandable while he-bro takes a second, a critical difference in usage. Lots of words are code for prejudice. Coded hate should be pointed out and stamped out whenever and wherever you find it. But this? None of you convinced me that MrDibble did anything wrong, and I’m easily convinced on this subject. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/114 "2015-11-01T03:00:58Z")
> [@j666](#): > > Hmm, what’s wrong with wandering? And does anyone still know “digger” as a racial slur? > > Not my call, though. Digger Phelps was a famous basketball coach at Notre Dame and a TV commentator. Im not sure that would have been possible had his name been offensive. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/115 "2015-11-01T03:11:16Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > I’ll let VT’s response speak for me: I’m glad that you acknowledge you were wrong.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/116 "2015-11-01T03:22:30Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > It looks like a botanical term that has long been due for retirement, along with [Kaffir lily, Niggerhead and Digger pine](http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/12072/title/Racist-Relics--An-Ugly-Blight-On-Our-Botanical-Nomenclature/). I could see “Wandering Jew” being maybe _slightly_ offensive if it were a term that ascribed a particular quality to all Jews. But the phrase actually refers to one particular [(legendary) Jew](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wandering_Jew). It’s not a slur to all Jews any more than “Flying Dutchman” is a slur to all Netherlanders. Or so it seems to me; but then, I’m not Jewish, so I don’t really get a say. > [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > Now I am an old person, and what words mean is probably not gonna change for me, in that when I hear “thug” I am gonna think “armed robber” or “person who might consider armed robbery” rather than any race at all. I know things change (the fact that the Pike frat is banding together with a Jewish frat, for anything, is definitely a surprising turn of events), but I think for most people who actually live and talk in America, “thug” is more going to mean “gangster” and “Jew-bros” is going to be more like “those people.” Whippersnapper. When I hear “thug”, I think “someone who’s going to strangle me with a silk handkerchief as a sacrifice to Kali”. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/117 "2015-11-01T03:31:08Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I’m glad that you acknowledge you were wrong.😉 No problem. I’m at a crowded bar and there is a guy here dressed as Mr. Kotter with a glorious jewfro, not a wig. Well, it MAY be a jewfro. He’s drinking draft beer pretty rapidly, so I’m thinking it shouldn’t be long before he hits the head. My plan is to sidle up next to him at the urinal, (it’s a long trough), and check his Jewish bona fides. I should be able to report back here pretty soon and let you all know if it’s a jewfro or not. Fingers crossed that he doesn’t think I’m up to something weird. Oooh, he’s getting up; back in a flash… ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/118 "2015-11-01T03:35:52Z")
Nope. Not a jewfro. And unfortunately for that poor curly-haired bastard, I think it must be an Irishfro. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/119 "2015-11-01T04:00:22Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Seriously? _Looks enough like_ is the new standard? > Now that we’re going to start looking at words that look enough like other words to find defamatory comments? > > Species of the spiderwort plant are known as “Wandering Jew.” I suppose that looks enough like something else to warrant a warning now too? You appear to wish to wander off inventing things I have not said. I noted that the construction Jew _noun_ was insulting. I said nothing about reversing the order of those words, which, in English, would generally change the construction to _adjective_ Jew “Sounds like” was not applied as a standard. It was noted because it had already been noted, previously and it provides an example of the sort of construction I noted. Speaking it aloud would give most speakers a sense of they way such a construction sounds insulting. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > Have you searched the ADL website for what’s offensive and what’s not, or are you just going to listen to some members who may actually have an agenda? You might be surprised if you do. The ADL does not set the standard for insults; I did not bother to try to find any such thing. I am aware that the construction Jew _noun_ is insulting. If you doubt that, simply drop “Jew insult” into Google and review the number of sites that discuss using Jew as an adjective. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/120 "2015-11-01T04:00:32Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Does that make me at fault? I mean, I’ve learned not to call Black men “boy.” You had to _learn_ that? Did you go to elementary school with Strom Thurmond or something? “Thug” = “black man” is a far newer thing. I’m 49 (oy, I still hate writing that) and I’d say for the vast majority of my lengthy time on earth, “thug” was pretty much a synonym for “goon,” “muscle,” “young punk,” “gang member” (and that would’ve included the Sharks _and_ the Jets!), “hulking bully” or simply “scary violent person.” For example, in the 2000 election, when a bunch of rioters forced and bullied their way into a building where Florida ballot counters were involved in the recount, they were (and are) called “thugs.” Considering this was called the Brooks Brothers Riot, that might give you a good inkling of just how Whitey McPaleface these people were. Indeed, harsher Democrats often call Republicans “Rethugs.” Google “brooks brothers riot” and “thugs” and you’ll see plenty of results. (And before anyone freaks out: I have no doubt that the same goes for any left-wing rioters or demonstrators in various instances who pissed off Republicans.) ANYWAY. All this said, I’ll continue to use “thug” for bullying types such as supporters of certain politicians, but avoid it for any rare instances where I’d be kvetching about black folks. You know why? Because it’s now considered offensive in that context, and unlike people like **MrDibble** and **Grotonian** –and for that matter, **Scandia** as **Fenris** rightfully mentions–I’m not looking to offend a group at large and I’ll take people’s word for it that something is hurtful. I’ve never considered it a hardship to refrain from causing insult. But then, I’m not the type who intentionally tries to slide a slur past the mods. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248.md?page=7)