# tomndebb, please explain why I was noted for saying Jew-bros. **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [October 31, 2015, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248 "2015-10-31T08:26:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/121 "2015-11-01T04:18:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Some people are so oversensitive Yes, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/122 "2015-11-01T04:22:16Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > No problem. I’m at a crowded bar and there is a guy here dressed as Mr. Kotter with a glorious jewfro, not a wig. Well, it MAY be a jewfro. He’s drinking draft beer pretty rapidly, so I’m thinking it shouldn’t be long before he hits the head. My plan is to sidle up next to him at the urinal, (it’s a long trough), and check his Jewish bona fides. > > I should be able to report back here pretty soon and let you all know if it’s a jewfro or not. Fingers crossed that he doesn’t think I’m up to something weird. Oooh, he’s getting up; back in a flash… If you are looking to get your suspension upped to a ban, you are doing a good job of trying to attract Mod attention. This sort of tale smells a lot like trolling–particularly since well over 90% of males in the U.S. since the 1940s have been circumcised, regardless of religion–a point of which it would be unlikely that you are ignorant. Creepy declarations that are also implausible suggest that you are not interested in actual discussion. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/123 "2015-11-01T04:26:53Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > Nope. Not a jewfro. And unfortunately for that poor curly-haired bastard, I think it must be an Irishfro. Had to use two hands to keep it out of the water, did he? ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/124 "2015-11-01T04:54:02Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > If you are looking to get your suspension upped to a ban, you are doing a good job of trying to attract Mod attention. This sort of tale smells a lot like trolling–particularly since well over 90% of males in the U.S. since the 1940s have been circumcised, regardless of religion–a point of which it would be unlikely that you are ignorant. Creepy declarations that are also implausible suggest that you are not interested in actual discussion. > > [/Moderating] Which is why I was able to identify the Gabe Kaplan lookalike as a non-Jew, but wouldn’t have been able to identify him as a Jew. My post was totally germane to the discussion as I have come around to the majority opinion in this thread that jewfros can’t be worn by non-Jews. I identified a stranger as a non-Jew by his lack of a circumcision scar. Therefore, no circumcision scar = no jewfro. Now, if other posters come to the conclusion that it’s ludicrous to require ethnic knowledge of someone to identify his hairstyle, I cannot possibly help that. Moreover, the jewfro argument in this thread is a quite minor point in the larger question of “Jew-bros.” I thought my last two posts ended the jewfro argument on a very light-hearted note with the implicit point that I was done arguing that all white people can have a jewfro. Jewfros for Jews only; I’m totally on board. It was certainly not my intent to “troll” anyone, nor do I think I have. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/125 "2015-11-01T05:12:51Z")
> [@choie](#): > > You know why? Because it’s now considered offensive in that context, and unlike people like **MrDibble** and **Grotonian** –and for that matter, **Scandia** as **Fenris** rightfully mentions–I’m not looking to offend a group at large and I’ll take people’s word for it that something is hurtful. How am I included in this? The only thing I’ve advocated in this thread is for more inclusivity in hairstyles! ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/126 "2015-11-01T05:14:10Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Not that I think **tomndebb** ’s moderation is, generally speaking, anything to praise. He is really getting worse and worse at this “unbiased” thing, considering how often he switches from participant in a contentious thread to moderating that same thread (usually focusing on those who are on the opposite side of him). > > _Mods should not moderate threads in which they are participants, end of story._ It is unfathomable to me that this behavior is considered an appropriate method of moderating a forum. **tomndebb** is by far the worst abuser of this, seemingly unable to see just how easily power is mishandled when it’s used to stifle and intimidate one’s debate opponents. And I say this as someone who often agrees with his views. > > If a mod-_cum_-participant in a thread sees something that might need moderating, report it like anyone else and send it to the mod loop. Let someone else judge. > > The fact that this hasn’t been established as procedure years ago is absolutely mind-boggling. It was actually discussed back in 2009, also with reference to tomndebb. Here’s the thread, where I posted in favor of this. [Personal views in a Mod Post. - About This Message Board - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=542499) ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/127 "2015-11-01T05:17:08Z")
I’m younger than 40 and jewfro is not limited to jewish people in my experience. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/128 "2015-11-01T06:12:02Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > The ADL does not set the standard for insults; I did not bother to try to find any such thing. I am aware that the construction Jew _noun_ is insulting. If you doubt that, simply drop “Jew insult” into Google and review the number of sites that discuss using Jew as an adjective. Your Google must work different than mine. I’ll blame Win 10 then. Let’s let those who the “defamation” is directed at define what is defamatory, not google. For instance, > I appreciate that your goal is to eliminate hate speech on the board. I applaud that. However, I think you’re finding it where it’s not, nor is it meant to be. Is it really any different calling the man a Jewish baker vs a Jew baker? I think people see the word Jew and assume it’s being used as a verb, when in fact, it’s not (hopefully). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/129 "2015-11-01T06:29:05Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Is it really any different calling the man a Jewish baker vs a Jew baker? . Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. That is the crux of the issue. If you can’t see the difference, then maybe it’s just ignorance on your part. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/130 "2015-11-01T07:38:46Z")
OK, **tom** ’s replied to me, this thread can be closed, I got my answer: While he doesn’t [always feel compelled to judge racist/hate speech](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=764849), apparently in _some_ cases **tom** is just fine with judging what is and isn’t such. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/131 "2015-11-01T11:21:56Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Your Google must work different than mine. I’ll blame Win 10 then. > > Let’s let those who the “defamation” is directed at define what is defamatory, not google. > > For instance, > [gentiles - What should I be aware of when using the term "Jew"? - Mi Yodeya](http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/22506/what-should-i-be-aware-of-when-using-the-term-jew) > > I appreciate that your goal is to eliminate hate speech on the board. I applaud that. However, I think you’re finding it where it’s not, nor is it meant to be. > > Is it really any different calling the man a Jewish baker vs a Jew baker? I think people see the word Jew and assume it’s being used as a verb, when in fact, it’s not (hopefully). Yes! Jewish baker is acceptable common English. Jew banker is used to offend or demean. Your own cite suggests avoiding the use of “Jew” as a verb or adjective. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/132 "2015-11-01T12:11:56Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > How am I included in this? The only thing I’ve advocated in this thread is for more inclusivity in hairstyles! Let’s just say I’m familiar with your body of work. > [@rowrrbazzle](#): > > It was actually discussed back in 2009, also with reference to tomndebb. Here’s the thread, where I posted in favor of this. [Personal views in a Mod Post. - About This Message Board - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=542499) Thanks for finding that, **rowrrbazzle**. I do know it’s been discussed but couldn’t find it. More important, I’m just still astonished that this commonplace, common _sense_ policy has yet to be implemented, especially since one of the mods is so often accused of moderating people who disagree with him in the same thread. Even if this mod insists the instances are exaggerated, such a policy would at least stop the accusations. (In fairness, I can think of two other mods who were often deficient in that area too, but since neither of them is still serving in this capacity, I’m pretty sure that **tomndebb** ’s now flying solo. And again this is coming from someone who _usually_ agrees with the guy.) ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/133 "2015-11-01T12:13:52Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > I could see “Wandering Jew” being maybe _slightly_ offensive if it were a term that ascribed a particular quality to all Jews. But the phrase actually refers to one particular [(legendary) Jew](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wandering_Jew). It’s not a slur to all Jews any more than “Flying Dutchman” is a slur to all Netherlanders. Or so it seems to me; but then, I’m not Jewish, so I don’t really get a say. Actually you do get a say. It’s your language too. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/134 "2015-11-01T12:42:12Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > OK, **tom** ’s replied to me, this thread can be closed, I got my answer: While he doesn’t [always feel compelled to judge racist/hate speech](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=764849), apparently in _some_ cases **tom** is just fine with judging what is and isn’t such. You are overreacting, at this point. I made no claim that you were engaged in hate speech and certainly made no claim that your statement was racist. The construction you used was one that is typical of insults directed at a group in the U.S. and I noted that it was inappropriate. It was not “hate speech,” by any definition, and you were in no danger of being Warned. You were simply advised that such language was inappropriate. It would be no different than my suggesting that a poster refrain from using the word Hottentot, that drives you up the wall, even though it has no racist history in the U.S., not even picking up the tag “offensive” in dictionaries until after 2000, and I doubt that one person in 50 in the U.S. would even be aware that other people in other countries found it offensive. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/135 "2015-11-01T13:00:43Z")
Sorry I missed most of this. Kids, Halloween and such. Just a few points I want to make. I find it interesting that MrDibble - who upthread explicitly claims he’s OK with insulting people - is protesting that he was not being offensive or antisemetic with his use of ‘jewbros’. Perhaps he was tone-deaf. I’ll concede the possibility. Yet the thread in which this all started is enormously about a great of very young men being tone deaf about racial issues. I don’t believe those kids were being racist. I think they were responding to popular culture’s use of ‘thug’ for a subclass of musical artist. Tone deaf? Sure, what the hell. Evil? Not really. Dumb kids? Almost certainly. Second, I also find it interesting that the entire focus here has been on only one of the two fraternities involved. Alpha Epsilon Pi is indeed a historically Jewish fraternity. Fine. But the other one, Pi Kappa Alpha, is not. However, led by MrDibble’s focus on the Jewish nature of one of the two fraternities, the entire discussion here has been about things that can be offensive to Jews. Wouldn’t have been better to focus on the fact that the party was sponsored by two Greek organizations rather than just the one that with a Jewish focus? I believe that bears thinking about by all involved. I was raised Jewish - though I’m a terrible one. I don’t practice, nor do I raise my children in any faith whatsoever (except maybe Star Wars and geek culture in general) but I’ll offer than reading ‘jewbros’ made me twitch a bit. Like using ‘boy’ to a black man, using ‘jew-X’ to a jewish person is a construction best avoided. The minefield there is thick and one is all too likely to misstep. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/136 "2015-11-01T13:04:14Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > You are overreacting, at this point. > > I made no claim that you were engaged in hate speech I didn’t say you did make such a claim. > [@](#): > > and certainly made no claim that your statement was racist. Then why was it modded? > [@](#): > > The construction you used was one that is typical of insults directed at a group in the U.S. and I noted that it was inappropriate. If it wasn’t viewed as possibly racist, _why_ was it inappropriate? It certainly wasn’t personal insult, and it was directed at an off-board group. Is it just because a lot of people complained and it could be disruptive? Because that certainly doesn’t seem to be the standard applied to anti-Black and anti-Muslim speech. > [@](#): > > It was not “hate speech,” by any definition, and you were in no danger of being Warned. You were simply advised that such language was inappropriate. I’m well aware of this, as I’ve “noted” in this thread, in the OP and other subsequent posts. > [@](#): > > It would be no different than my suggesting that a poster refrain from using the word Hottentot, that drives you up the wall, even though it has no racist history in the U.S., not even picking up the tag “offensive” in dictionaries until after 2000, and I doubt that one person in 50 in the U.S. would even be aware that other people in other countries found it offensive. The analogy falls down as Hottentot is an _actual slur_ **whether Americans are ignorant of the fact or no** t, whereas “jewbro” is no such thing. Or are all the Jews who use it as a [twitter](https://twitter.com/hashtag/jewbro) [hashtag](https://twitter.com/hashtag/jewbros) or [instagram](http://iconosquare.com/tag/jewbros) [tag](http://tofo.me/tag/jewbros) just self hating? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/137 "2015-11-01T13:20:39Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > I find it interesting that MrDibble - who upthread explicitly claims he’s OK with insulting people I’m OK with insulting people for what they do, not what they are. > [@](#): > > - is protesting that he was not being offensive or antisemetic with his use of ‘jewbros’. Are you questioning my honesty? > [@](#): > > Perhaps he was tone-deaf. I’ll concede the possibility. Yet the thread in which this all started is enormously about a great of very young men being tone deaf about racial issues. I don’t believe those kids were being racist. As the evidence in that thread shows, you’re not likely to be correct. > [@](#): > > Second, I also find it interesting that the entire focus here has been on only one of the two fraternities involved. That’s because AEPi is the _raison d’etre_ for the party. The point of the party was to advertise their introduction to the Greek community at SMU, as they’ve only been there a year. Also, maybe it’s silly to say this, but I expect way better from them than the already notoriously shitty PiKE. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/138 "2015-11-01T13:31:06Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > If it wasn’t viewed as possibly racist, _why_ was it inappropriate? It certainly wasn’t personal insult, and it was directed at an off-board group. Is all insult racist in your world view? The construction that uses Jew as an adjective is offensive. Regardless whether it is perceived as racist, religious bigotry, or some other form of insult, it is insulting. Are you OK with a poster using Hottentot directed against an off-board group? > [@MrDibble](#): > > The analogy falls down as Hottentot is an _actual slur_ **whether Americans are ignorant of the fact or no** t, whereas “jewbro” is no such thing. using Jew as adjective is every bit as insulting as Hottentot. That you are unaware of this means that I did not regard your use as deliberately inflammatory and simply told you to not do it again. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/139 "2015-11-01T13:33:00Z")
I agree with Tom’s moderation here, and only wish he were consistent in moderating similarly eyebrow-raising language used to reference black people. **MrDibble** , it’s past time you acknowledge that your usage here is problematic. [Here’s another usage note for you](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/jew): > [@](#): > > The adjectival use of Jew, as in the phrase Jew boy, is now perceived as insulting; the adjective Jewish should be used instead. The verb jew (down) is also perceived as offensive, because it perpetuates the stereotype of the shrewd Jewish moneylender or haggler. Originally, however, both the adjective and the verb were used in a neutral way by Jews and non-Jews. Edit: and here’s an interesting [note that this pejorative usage is at least a century old](https://books.google.com/books?id=NG41bel9hZMC&pg=PA111&lpg=PA111&dq=jew+adjective+adl&source=bl&ots=Npzfek2xK9&sig=P_pUTwvL5eSDBIBzSWppbQaTJvk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDMQ6AEwA2oVChMIzcyp2avvyAIVzEgmCh3GAwmJ#v=onepage&q=jew%20adjective%20adl&f=false). It’s Google Books, so I can’t quote it, but it’s interesting. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248/140 "2015-11-01T13:37:17Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I agree with Tom’s moderation here, and only wish he were consistent in moderating similarly eyebrow-raising language used to reference black people. **MrDibble** , it’s past time you acknowledge that your usage here is problematic. I agree with both statements. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-please-explain-why-i-was-noted-for-saying-jew-bros/736248.md?page=8)