# Tomndebb--rules question **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [October 17, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-rules-question/557455 "2010-10-17T17:12:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-rules-question/557455/61 "2010-10-19T16:41:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Ah. “Me, too” recreational outrage, then. I hear it’s contagious. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-rules-question/557455/62 "2010-10-19T16:43:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Ah. “Me, too” recreational outrage, then. Ah, the sniveling condescension. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-rules-question/557455/63 "2010-10-19T16:48:34Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Ah, the sniveling condescension. Nope-just a long memory and the ability to recognize patterns of posting. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-rules-question/557455/64 "2010-10-19T17:10:47Z")
> [@Beadalin](#): > > Also: “hissyfit” and “hilarious,” to the extent that they were directed toward anyone at all, were directed at Ed, not tom. Deliberately mischaracterizing **Ed** ’s attempt to clean up **Cecil** ’s message board is not the way to handle this. I find it funny that despite the continued protests that the trouble last year “was never about saying ‘cunt’!” we _keep on returning to the word._ Whoever was at fault for returning to the subject, members or message board staff, I am _so very weary_ of the continued manufactured drama on **Cecil** ’s message board. I think it’s time for a sword to cut through the Gordian knot. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-rules-question/557455/65 "2010-10-19T17:21:57Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > I find it funny that despite the continued protests that the trouble last year “was never about saying ‘cunt’!” we _keep on returning to the word._ Whoever was at fault for returning to the subject, members or message board staff, I am _so very weary_ of the continued manufactured drama on **Cecil** ’s message board. I think it’s time for a sword to cut through the Gordian knot. What would you suggest, though? Because it seems to me that, of late, this has only really become a big issue when some moderator has misapplied the rules regarding the word in question. That was the case when **twickster** did it earlier this year, and it’s the case here. There has been no dramatic increase in the use of the word on the Boards overall, and i don’t think people have been violating the actual rule about applying it to other Board members. In this case, had **tomndebb** not misapplied the rule, there would be no ATMB thread, and the whole thing would not be an issue. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-rules-question/557455/66 "2010-10-19T17:56:56Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Nope-just a long memory and the ability to recognize patterns of posting. I’d take sniveling condescension from tom if he’d adopt either a [long] memory or an ability to recognize patterns of posting. Both would be far too much to ask for. ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-rules-question/557455/67 "2010-10-19T18:16:24Z")
Why is there such effort spent to defend the right to use vague connotations? It’s just the lazy person’s way to try to say something without actually knowing what to say. Oh, look at me! I’m shocking! I’m getting your attention! Mock people being unclear or pretending they understand what they are talking about. Don’t fight for the right to be vague! Stand up for … something. If you must make analogies, refrain from cliches like “he’s as stubborn as a mule!”, “he’s as stupid as an ox!”, “he’s as slimy as a snake!”, “he’s as crafty as a fox!”. It’s remarks like that really get my goat! Why can’t we say “noble as a frog”? Why don’t we say “healthy as a hen”? True we say “devoted as a dog” - but what we should say is “chic as a giraffe!”, “pretty as a pig!”, eh? That’ll be the big day! ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-rules-question/557455/68 "2010-10-19T18:20:22Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Can we, or can we not, refer to people who are NOT board members as cunts on non-Pit forums? The last time I remember this coming up, **Ed Zotti** [ruled](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12330694&postcount=170) that there was no prohibition against directing vulgar words (including the dreaded c-word) at off-board individuals: [QUOTE=Ed Zotti] 1. A poster called an off-board individual a cunt in post #41 on 3-29 in the thread in question. We issued a mod note in post #45 on 3-30. This was a mistake. Although we don’t encourage posters to direct vulgarities at off-board individuals, we’ve never had a rule against it. We have a rule against hateful material, and would likely take exception to terms such as nigger, kike, etc. **Cunt isn’t usually thought of as falling into that category. The only rule we have regarding this term is that it can’t be directed at another poster in the Pit.** Outside the Pit, you can’t insult other posters, period. [/QUOTE] (bolding mine) In homage to this ruling, I’d like to point out that Spongebob Squarepants is a total cunt. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-rules-question/557455/69 "2010-10-19T18:47:31Z")
I was fairly certain that was the case, but in tom’s explanation and apology, he said he saw “Pit language” in GD. What “Pit language”? Cunt? We can say cunt, except not to other people. While I’m here, I’d like to say that little red-haired lady who works for American Airlines at O’Hare is a total cunt. It’s too bad you can’t slap people at airports, or else they think you’re a terrorist. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-rules-question/557455/70 "2010-10-19T18:49:05Z")
> [@Corner\_Case](#): > > Why is there such effort spent to defend the right to use vague connotations? The effort being spent is to educate a moderator about the actual rules of the board, rather than allowing him to continue to just make shit up as he goes along (repeatedly). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-rules-question/557455/71 "2010-10-19T19:03:34Z")
I think some of the effort being spent here is just more of the same-someone has a problem with a moderator decision, and the usual suspects come in to play “can you top this snipe” and/or “lets repeat the offending word as many times as we can ‘just to prove a point’”. Of course, if people were serious about discussing the situation they wouldn’t play these “I’m not touching you!” games, but there you are. ---
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-rules-question/557455/72 "2010-10-19T19:34:40Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I think some of the effort being spent here is just more of the same-someone has a problem with a moderator decision, and the usual suspects come in to play “can you top this snipe” and/or “lets repeat the offending word as many times as we can ‘just to prove a point’”. Of course, if people were serious about discussing the situation they wouldn’t play these “I’m not touching you!” games, but there you are. You’re right, some of it IS exactly that stuff. Do you guys not grow a skin against it at all? And topping it off, the call was blown, but in apologizing, Tom blew the call AGAIN on review. So that just sets people off even more, because the next time this happens this episode can be used as precedent. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-rules-question/557455/73 "2010-10-19T20:23:46Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > There has been no dramatic increase in the use of the word on the Boards overall, . Actually, I Googled it–there has been a huge increase in the use since Ed made an issue of it. Per a Google Search: From Jan 1, 1999-\>Mar 1, 2009\* (123 months), there were about 205 posts that had the c-word in them at least once. From Mar 2, 2009-\>Today (19 months), there have been about 203 posts that had the c-word in them at least once. (The search doesn’t count instances of the word, it counts posts that contain the word at least once.) So this plan to clean up the board seems to have backfired spectacularly. \*roughly when Ed-Gate happened ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-rules-question/557455/74 "2010-10-19T20:31:44Z")
Using the word repeatedly _only_ because you are told not to speaks for the maturity of who, again? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-rules-question/557455/75 "2010-10-19T20:33:27Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Actually, I Googled it–there has been a huge increase in the use since Ed made an issue of it. Right. What i should have said was that there has been no dramatic increase in its use in the regular back-and-forth of the boards. As before, the vast majority of threads do not contain the word at all. But the banning of the insult, and subsequent debates over it, have, as you note, resulted in a dramatic upswing in its use on the Boards, even if that use is largely confined to the debates over the rule itself. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-rules-question/557455/76 "2010-10-19T21:04:31Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Right. > > What i should have said was that there has been no dramatic increase in its use in the regular back-and-forth of the boards. As before, the vast majority of threads do not contain the word at all. > > But the banning of the insult, and subsequent debates over it, have, as you note, resulted in a dramatic upswing in its use on the Boards, even if that use is largely confined to the debates over the rule itself. For example, see posts #68 and #69 in this thread, not to mention **Vinyl Turnip’s** over-the-top attempt to out do everyone else in post #55. The people in these posts aren’t even pretending any more that they are using the word to further the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-rules-question/557455/77 "2010-10-19T21:05:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Using the word repeatedly _only_ because you are told not to speaks for the maturity of who, again? Again - we haven’t been told to not use it, we’ve been told to stop using it _against each other_. That’s kind of the point that’s been repeatedly made in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-rules-question/557455/78 "2010-10-19T21:11:05Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > What would you suggest, though? I am not able to post what exactly I would do if given that metaphorical sword at this juncture. I can simply repeat that whatever or whoever the root cause of the seemingly perpetual controversies, I really want them to end. They lessen the Straight Dope and distract further from the work of **Cecil** and the Straight Dope Staff. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-rules-question/557455/79 "2010-10-19T21:12:55Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Again - we haven’t been told to not use it, we’ve been told to stop using it _against each other_. That’s kind of the point that’s been repeatedly made in this thread. That it’s impossible to make that point without gratuitously using it as often as possible? Because that is exactly what I’m seeing in the examples I just gave. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-rules-question/557455/80 "2010-10-19T21:17:00Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > For example, see posts #68 and #69 in this thread, not to mention **Vinyl Turnip’s** over-the-top attempt to out do everyone else in post #55. The people in these posts aren’t even pretending any more that they are using the word to further the discussion. I think one could argue that post #68 contributed far more substantively to the topic of the thread than posts #57, #60 or #63, even if it did include a joke at the end which made use of a naughty word. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-rules-question/557455.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tomndebb-rules-question/557455.md?page=5)