# tongue tied

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tongue-tied/7826>\
**Category:** Factual Questions\
**Created:** [February 27, 2000, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tongue-tied/7826 "2000-02-27T06:16:00Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 4\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![upstatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ce73a5/32.png) [@upstatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/upstatic)\
**Post date:** [February 27, 2000, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tongue-tied/7826/1 "2000-02-27T06:16:00Z")

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Is civil disobedience the same as uncivil obedience?

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R.J.D.

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**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\
**Post date:** [February 27, 2000, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tongue-tied/7826/2 "2000-02-27T08:09:00Z")

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On the chance that you’re not trying to be a smartass:

Civil disobedience\* would be, roughly, not doing something but being polite about it.

Uncivil obedience would be, roughly, doing something but being rude about it.

\ ***Civil disobedience** _n._ the refusla to obey certain governmental laws or demands in order to influence legislation or policy, characterized by such nonviolent methods as nonpayment of taxes or boycotting. (Webster’s)

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Your Official Cat Goddess since 10/20/99.

_Thunder’s just a noise, boys; lightning does the work._ --C. Brock

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**Author:** ![pluto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f08c70/32.png) [@pluto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pluto)\
**Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tongue-tied/7826/3 "2000-02-29T06:28:00Z")

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_Civil_, in this case, refers to the operation of the government (think of _Civics_ class), not to the manners of the person involved. You are disobedient to the civil government, not disobedient and being civil about it.

So, although **Kat** is correct that civil disobedience is characterized by good manners, the words _civil_ and _uncivil_ in the OP are not really antonyms. _Uncivil_ is a reference to manners while _civil_, as noted above, refers to the subject of the disobedience.

That said, Thoreau was certainly aware of the dual meaning of the word _civil_ and his use of the term is hardly accidental.

FWIW, civil disobedience, as described by Thoreau and practiced by Ghandi, requires submitting yourself to the law following your disobedience. The point is to call attention to the injustice of the law by requiring its enforcement. Many (not all) protests that hide behind the moniker of civil disobedience are nothing of the sort.

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If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

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**Author:** ![NickyLarson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b2d939/32.png) [@NickyLarson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NickyLarson)\
**Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tongue-tied/7826/4 "2000-02-29T04:07:00Z")

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During the summer of 1979, It was my pleasure to climb the fences of two nuclear power plants.  
We were told not to.  
We said we would anyway.  
They said they’d have us aressted.  
We said fine.

So we climbed the fences.  
And they arrested us.  
At the first one they arrested 510 people.

It went like this:

They said: “you’re under arrest.”

We said, “Okay.”

They said, “Come with us.”  
We said , no carry us. And we were nice about it, we weren’t obnoxious, sure some of the cops were pissed, but they carried us.

We were **Civil** and we were **Disobiedient**

That’s basically it.

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If it jams, force it; if it breaks, it needed replacing anyway.