# Tonight's Dead Like Me (10/15/04) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 16, 2004, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-dead-like-me-10-15-04/269508 "2004-10-16T02:50:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-dead-like-me-10-15-04/269508/1 "2004-10-16T02:50:41Z")
Simple question, when Ray died (got killed), and the death creature came out of him, what was that all about? I have an idea or two, but I’m probably totally off base. ---
**Author:** ![tarragon918](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d26b3c/32.png) [@tarragon918](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tarragon918)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-dead-like-me-10-15-04/269508/2 "2004-10-16T10:18:38Z")
> [@Master Control](#): > > Simple question, when Ray died (got killed), and the death creature came out of him, what was that all about? I have an idea or two, but I’m probably totally off base. Hi, **Master Control** ; I like DLM too, and had looked for a post about this week’s episode. BTW, new shows air on Sundays at 10 pm; last night’s episode was one of the re-runs of the Sunday show. I didn’t see a discussion post for the 10/10 show, which surprised me because the graveling birth is certainly worthy of debate, imho. My first impression was that the graveling had been inhabiting Ray’s body for a while, but after some thought I decided that it was “birthed” by Ray’s death, although how/why I’m stuck between: Ray’s soul had withered and died some time ago, -or- there was no reaper to release Ray’s soul, -or- because Ray’s death was caused directly by a reaper. You might want to try the [TWOP](http://http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/index.php?showtopic=2820618&st=1560&#entry2066861) forum on DLM - there is a great deal of speculation there about the graveling “birth.” Hope this helps some! ---
**Author:** ![tarragon918](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d26b3c/32.png) [@tarragon918](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tarragon918)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-dead-like-me-10-15-04/269508/3 "2004-10-16T10:26:12Z")
I hope I haven’t done a “no-no” but the link I provided above, which is supposed to go directly to the Dead Like Me discussion forum at TWOP, doesn’t seem to be working. It’s a bit hard to find there, that’s why I tried to link directly to it! thanks in advance ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-dead-like-me-10-15-04/269508/4 "2004-10-16T14:47:33Z")
Oh, it’s a repeat of last Sunday. Didn’t realize that, thanks. Actually, you’re thinking of the two possibilities I was thinking of. Either he already had it in him for a while, or it was a result of being improperly killed by the reapers. Having missed quiet a few episodes, I wasn’t sure if something like this was already covered or not. Anyway, I’ll check out the link. Hey mods, maybe if you could change the title to “last week’s episode of Dead Like Me” since that’s what it is, I’d appreciate it. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-dead-like-me-10-15-04/269508/5 "2004-10-16T15:01:47Z")
Hmmm, on [TV Tome](http://www.tvtome.com/DeadLikeMe/season2.html) > [@](#): > > # NOTE: Jasmine Guy (Roxy) does not appear in this episode. Ray was possessed by a graveling, Joy applied to work at happy time, altho she paused in front of George’s cubical, indicating that there is still a connection between them, which leads me to belive that they might have future confrontations. > > # I don’t think Ray was possessed by a graveling. I think he is what gravelings are before they become gravelings: sadistic men (or women) who enjoy causing pain. They revel in it. It makes sense, if you think about it, in that gravelings don’t follow any schedule, they just go around wreaking havoc and killing people, and the reapers get there just before the gravelings and make it painless for the victims. So, no hope there either, although the second explination sounds pretty plausible. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-dead-like-me-10-15-04/269508/6 "2004-10-16T15:20:01Z")
Or it could be that people with no souls are Gravelings after they die. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-dead-like-me-10-15-04/269508/7 "2004-10-16T15:39:49Z")
Isn’t that pretty much what the second TV Tome explination says? ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-dead-like-me-10-15-04/269508/8 "2004-10-17T12:37:23Z")
Just caught this episode today. Another possible theory: Gravelings come about when living people find out about Reapers and then die. Variation: They find out about Reapers and then die at the hands of one. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-dead-like-me-10-15-04/269508/9 "2004-10-17T15:42:02Z")
Maybe in the next episode they’ll explain. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Long\_Road](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@The\_Long\_Road](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Long_Road)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-dead-like-me-10-15-04/269508/10 "2004-10-18T19:57:20Z")
In the first season, the reapers had different outward appearences to non-reapers. Apparently that has changed with no comments or explanations. Love the show but some elements were badly done. A few weeks ago Ellen Muth and an executive producer of DLM were interviewed on Coast to Coast AM. The interview was horrible. The producer kept interrupting Ellen and when she finally did get a chance to speak most of it made little sense. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-dead-like-me-10-15-04/269508/11 "2004-10-19T01:30:03Z")
Was Sunday’s episode a rerun? Because I’ve already downloaded ep #13, which comes after the one being discussed here. (Since I downloaded the first four weeks before they aired, I wouldn’t be surprised.) In a spoiler box, just to be safe: [spoiler]In this episode, there is a graveling hanging out behind George and Daisy’s house. It leaps up on the window, and Daisy addresses it as if it _is_ Ray, shooing him away. So it’s clear that the graveling is, in fact, Ray. They never explain it beyond this, though. Roxy shows up at the house to investigate Ray’s disappearance, quickly figures out what happened, and ends up covering for Daisy and Mason. This was an excellent episode, by the way.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-dead-like-me-10-15-04/269508/12 "2004-10-19T01:33:56Z")
> [@](#): > > In the first season, the reapers had different outward appearences to non-reapers. Apparently that has changed with no comments or explanations. Love the show but some elements were badly done. Why has that necessarily changed? Is there any reason to think this isn’t still the case, and they’re just not addressing it anymore? For instance, Daisy is hot to both the reapers and the living, but I always just figured that her alter ego was hot, too. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-dead-like-me-10-15-04/269508/13 "2004-10-19T01:35:09Z")
That must have been yesterday’s (10/17/04) episode. I didn’t see it because I was watching The Surreal Life, but I will be watching it next Friday. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-dead-like-me-10-15-04/269508/14 "2004-10-19T01:37:48Z")
I was, of course, replying to the 11th post. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-dead-like-me-10-15-04/269508/15 "2004-10-19T03:18:31Z")
[QUOTE=DoctorJ] Why has that necessarily changed? Is there any reason to think this isn’t still the case, and they’re just not addressing it anymore? [QUOTE] A couple of episodes ago, when Rube was looking in a records office, the clerk found an old wanted poster, I think. He pointed out how the face looked just like Rube’s, and sure enough it did. Also, at least once Goerge was shown very prominently in a mirror with her regular face. That could be overlooked, really, except that earlier in the series they seemed to make efforts to change it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Long\_Road](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@The\_Long\_Road](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Long_Road)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-dead-like-me-10-15-04/269508/16 "2004-10-19T04:18:10Z")
[QUOTE=Cheese Monster] [QUOTE=DoctorJ] Why has that necessarily changed? Is there any reason to think this isn’t still the case, and they’re just not addressing it anymore? > [@](#): > > A couple of episodes ago, when Rube was looking in a records office, the clerk found an old wanted poster, I think. He pointed out how the face looked just like Rube’s, and sure enough it did. > > Also, at least once Goerge was shown very prominently in a mirror with her regular face. That could be overlooked, really, except that earlier in the series they seemed to make efforts to change it. In addition, when Rube sees George’s father and sister in the dinner, he rushes everyone to the other side and is relieved when George walks in after they leave. In earlier episodes, George was face to face with her mother and saw her father several times so it seems odd to make such a big deal about it unless she would be recognized. The first time George saw herself in a mirror, she said something like “I look like a crack whore”. Certainly not the type that guys would be falling over such as the rich playboy at the country club. It was mentioned in Ellen’s interview about how they were no longer shown as other people and the comments pretty much went along the lines of it being dropped. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-dead-like-me-10-15-04/269508/17 "2004-10-19T10:09:16Z")
> [@The Long Road](#): > > In addition, when Rube sees George’s father and sister in the dinner, he rushes everyone to the other side and is relieved when George walks in after they leave. In earlier episodes, George was face to face with her mother and saw her father several times so it seems odd to make such a big deal about it unless she would be recognized. That was probably because Rube was worried George would react. > [@](#): > > The first time George saw herself in a mirror, she said something like “I look like a crack whore”. I cry bullshit, and let slip the dogs of pedantry. George wasn’t seeing herself in a mirror, but in a video camera. Presumably the rules are different - especially since we’ve been seeing eorge in a mirror in the credits of every episode. > [@](#): > > It was mentioned in Ellen’s interview about how they were no longer shown as other people and the comments pretty much went along the lines of it being dropped. This, however, is just about the case. It’s not so much “dropped” as “they don’t bring it up any more”. So far they’ve scripted to avoid it, though, and even if it does arise they can use a voiceover reminder of the different appearances rather than the reverse shot. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-dead-like-me-10-15-04/269508/18 "2004-10-19T10:10:38Z")
Sorry about the double post, forgot to address this. > [@Master Control](#): > > Maybe in the next episode they’ll explain. Yes, they do. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Long\_Road](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@The\_Long\_Road](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Long_Road)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-dead-like-me-10-15-04/269508/19 "2004-10-19T15:30:02Z")
> [@Evil Death](#): > > That was probably because Rube was worried George would react. > > I cry bullshit, and let slip the dogs of pedantry. George wasn’t seeing herself in a mirror, but in a video camera. Presumably the rules are different - especially since we’ve been seeing eorge in a mirror in the credits of every episode. > > This, however, is just about the case. It’s not so much “dropped” as “they don’t bring it up any more”. So far they’ve scripted to avoid it, though, and even if it does arise they can use a voiceover reminder of the different appearances rather than the reverse shot. OK, cry bullshit, or whatever else you want. What does it matter if it was a video camera or a mirror? We saw George how she looked to others. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-dead-like-me-10-15-04/269508/20 "2004-10-19T15:54:36Z")
> [@The Long Road](#): > > OK, cry bullshit, or whatever else you want. What does it matter if it was a video camera or a mirror? Magic? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-dead-like-me-10-15-04/269508.md?page=2)