# Tonights special: apologist apoplexy du rjung **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 17, 2006, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-special-apologist-apoplexy-du-rjung/357068 "2006-05-17T03:27:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2006, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-special-apologist-apoplexy-du-rjung/357068/201 "2006-05-23T10:58:36Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] Ike is doing a fine job of digging his own grave. [/QUOTE] You are one _delusional_ fuck. (That’s what I get for posting in a Scylla thread. Never get into an internet tiff with someone with that much free time on his hands.) No, I’m not going to warn Elvis, as he was interpreting UncleBeer’s previous post, whether correctly or not. As no one else 1s bothering to warn Elvis either, I think Elvis will not be warned. So quit snivelling. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2006, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-special-apologist-apoplexy-du-rjung/357068/202 "2006-05-23T11:02:09Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] I can see that. Like I said, I took a similar tack to what you are saying last time (I called Ike out, while simultaneously reporting it) so I thought it was time for something different. Ike has made it personal with me. I don’t know what engendered his ill will in the first place, and I took him at his word when he claimed no offense. When he did it again, I offered him a venue in private to discuss it. Apparently, he didn’t wish to. That’s fine. I consider his initial recanting to be proven disingenuous by his subsequent attack. He’s made it personal, so I make a point of making a big deal of it when he comes after me. I think it’s innapropriate for a moderator to be making personal attacks, habitually. We are paying customers. By doing so, he opens himself up to claims of favoritism and vendetta in his moderator capacity, and he sacrifices his ability to do his job and have his judgement accepted. Ike take it even further by actually being partisan and willfully negligent in his duties. As long as he comes after me **and** is negligent at the same time, I’ll make a big deal about. [/QUOTE] I’ll be blunt. I don’t give a carp what Ike did to piss you off so much. There isn’t anything you can say to make me think that the way you are behaving is appropriate. If you think a poster is violating the rules, you take it to the mods via the “report” button. If you think a mod is not doing their job, you take it to an admin via e-mail. What you’re doing now is playing to the peanut gallery. I think Hentor’s got you nailed on this part. You’re not really looking for a solution. You’re looking for attention. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2006, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-special-apologist-apoplexy-du-rjung/357068/203 "2006-05-23T12:20:57Z")
[QUOTE=Harborwolf] What you’re doing now is playing to the peanut gallery. I think Hentor’s got you nailed on this part. You’re not really looking for a solution. You’re looking for attention. [/QUOTE] So you are accusing him of trolling? Why not report it to a mod? 😉 Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2006, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-special-apologist-apoplexy-du-rjung/357068/204 "2006-05-23T12:42:29Z")
Sheeee-_it_. This whole damn thread needs a roll-eyes big enough to choke out a RAID array. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2006, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-special-apologist-apoplexy-du-rjung/357068/205 "2006-05-23T16:41:04Z")
We’re not going to warn **ElvisL1ves**. The “don’t call other posters trolls” rules is meant to avoid feeding actual trolls and to prevent junior modding wars between members. (As you can see, it’s working like a charm!) It’s not meant to make the word troll a word of such powerful taboo that you get warned for even hinting at it. As I read it, **Elvis** was suggesting that chumming was another way of saying trolling – this was later clarified to not be the case. Not a big deal – certainly not worth a page and a half of outrage. Instead of wasting time arguing over minor rule violations, why not focus on the issue at hand? Or forget about the issue at hand and simply call each other assholes? Either one would be more useful (and far less tedious to read). ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-special-apologist-apoplexy-du-rjung/357068/206 "2006-05-24T01:52:13Z")
[QUOTE=Giraffe] As I read it, **Elvis** was suggesting that chumming was another way of saying trolling [/quote] I agree. > [@](#): > > – this was later clarified to not be the case. I agree. > [@](#): > > Not a big deal – certainly not worth a page and a half of outrage. [/quote] Well, I think you’re making a mistake. **Unclebeer** as you agree, made no insinuation or accusation of trolling. It wasn’t there until Elvis put it in. Elvis put in by interpreting **Unclebeers** post. He did it quite deliberately and knowingly as he used the rolleyes and wasn’t so bold as to actually say “trolling,” but chose to further mask it. Ike also agrees with your reading, claiming that because it’s an interpretation, there is no accusation. What you’ve done is create a loophole that had previously not existed. Before you were not allowed to insinuate a poster was trolling. Now you are. All you have to do is follow Elvis’ example and engage in a disingenuous interpretation of someone else’s post to make your insinuation. With this interpretation exemption it would be easy. Further, I think it’s pretty clear that Unclebeer was not making a trolling accusation but Elvis **was** making the insinuation in a sideways fashion, so I think you’ve made a bad decision. If your interpretation of it is correct, why would Elvis use the rolleyes? Why would he say the “T-word” instead of “trolling” unless he was aware that he was deliberately breaking a rule and trying to give himself wiggle room? > [@](#): > > – certainly not worth a page and a half of outrage. Well, if that standard were applied to most threads… ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-special-apologist-apoplexy-du-rjung/357068/207 "2006-05-24T01:56:15Z")
[QUOTE=Harborwolf] What you’re doing now is playing to the peanut gallery. I think Hentor’s got you nailed on this part. You’re not really looking for a solution. You’re looking for attention. [/QUOTE] Telling me what you think my motives are isn’t particularly illuminating, but if you feel that way then why are you engaging me? What can be said about your prolonged and prolific interests in an exchange that doesn’t concern you? Are you seeking attention, as well? Or trying to play up for somebody to look big? I don’t know your motivations, so it’s silly of me to assign them. The same goes for you. If I had to guess, you’re doing it for the same reason I am: It’s simply the way the discussion turned, and here you are. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-special-apologist-apoplexy-du-rjung/357068/208 "2006-05-24T02:02:16Z")
[QUOTE=Ukulele Ike] You are one _delusional_ fuck. [/quote] Yeah, you’re Momma couldn’t beleive how good I was, either. > [@](#): > > No, I’m not going to warn Elvis, as he was interpreting UncleBeer’s previous post, whether correctly or not. Cool rationalization. Now, equipped with the Ukele Ike exemption you can break all the rules by disingenuously interpreting someone else’s post. Just say whatever you want _under_ the quote box. Brilliant thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-special-apologist-apoplexy-du-rjung/357068/209 "2006-05-24T03:22:23Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] Well, I think you’re making a mistake. **Unclebeer** as you agree, made no insinuation or accusation of trolling. It wasn’t there until Elvis put it in. Elvis put in by interpreting **Unclebeers** post. He did it quite deliberately and knowingly as he used the rolleyes and wasn’t so bold as to actually say “trolling,” but chose to further mask it. [/QUOTE] You seem to have a surprising amount of knowledge about what was going through **Elvis** ’ head when he wrote that post. > [@](#): > > What you’ve done is create a loophole that had previously not existed. Before you were not allowed to insinuate a poster was trolling. > > Now you are. > > All you have to do is follow Elvis’ example and engage in a disingenuous interpretation of someone else’s post to make your insinuation. > > With this interpretation exemption it would be easy. We’re not the Supreme Court, we’re the moderators of a message board. Every situation does not create a binding precedent which must be applied rigidly forever after. If posters start trying to mask trolling accusations via bogus interpretations of others’ posts, we’ll deal with it. I don’t think it’ll be a problem. I think you’re missing the point of the “don’t accuse poster of trolling” rule. As I explained in my last post, the behavior we’re trying to discourage between members is junior modding, and the bad feelings that result from posters trying to use the mods and the rules as weapons against each other. Which is pretty much exactly what you’ve been doing these last couple of pages. Why not just let it go? (I know, I know: justice! The RULES! Precedent!!) ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-special-apologist-apoplexy-du-rjung/357068/210 "2006-05-24T03:50:28Z")
[QUOTE=Giraffe] Why not just let it go? (I know, I know: justice! The RULES! Precedent!!) [/QUOTE] Maybe he’s chumming the moderators? ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-special-apologist-apoplexy-du-rjung/357068/211 "2006-05-24T05:26:38Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] Maybe he’s chumming the moderators? [/QUOTE] He doesn’t seem all that friendly towards the moderators to me. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-special-apologist-apoplexy-du-rjung/357068/212 "2006-05-24T09:09:41Z")
> [@Ukelele Ike](#): > > You are one delusional fuck. [QUOTE=Scylla] Yeah, you’re Momma couldn’t beleive how good I was, either. [/quote] And here’s where the ‘delusional’ part comes in … That wasn’t _ **Ike’s** _ Momma you were with. :eek: Your mom _reeeeeally_ should’ve said something… ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-special-apologist-apoplexy-du-rjung/357068/213 "2006-05-24T11:01:36Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] Telling me what you think my motives are isn’t particularly illuminating, but if you feel that way then why are you engaging me? What can be said about your prolonged and prolific interests in an exchange that doesn’t concern you? Are you seeking attention, as well? Or trying to play up for somebody to look big? I don’t know your motivations, so it’s silly of me to assign them. The same goes for you. If I had to guess, you’re doing it for the same reason I am: It’s simply the way the discussion turned, and here you are. [/QUOTE] Why I’m here? \ Nothing better to do really. Same reason you started this thread I imagine. 😉 I’ll get more specific. Why didn’t you report this if it bothered you so much? I know. “Something different.” More information would be nice. You know Ike’s not a pit mod right? As with Frank, he’s not likely to go jumping mod boundaries for anything that’s not a large a blatant violation and with good cause. Last time the mods had a turf war, none of them had any eyebrows for a year. Sure it was funny, but oh so undignified. Why not take it to the proper authorities? If Ike’s conduct twists your nipples so much, why not go to the admins? Court of public opinion can’t do a whole lot. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-special-apologist-apoplexy-du-rjung/357068/214 "2006-05-24T11:18:52Z")
[QUOTE=Giraffe] I think you’re missing the point of the “don’t accuse poster of trolling” rule. As I explained in my last post, the behavior we’re trying to discourage between members is junior modding, and the bad feelings that result from posters trying to use the mods and the rules as weapons against each other. Which is pretty much exactly what you’ve been doing these last couple of pages. Why not just let it go? (I know, I know: justice! The RULES! Precedent!!) [/QUOTE] Then why isn’t that the rule? Then “don’t accuse another poster of trolling” and junior modding could be used as _examples_ of the rule against rules-lawyering. Basically, when you spell it out like this, the status quo is pretty fucking retarded. The troll rule seems to have spawned the very behavior it was intended to prohibit. Unless, of course, you are completely wrong about the intent of the rule against troll accusations. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-special-apologist-apoplexy-du-rjung/357068/215 "2006-05-24T14:03:11Z")
Well _I_ think that ‘apologist’ is a perfectly fine word to use in most circumstances when one is talking about Bush supporters and Bush True Believers. … what? ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-special-apologist-apoplexy-du-rjung/357068/216 "2006-05-24T14:23:20Z")
[QUOTE=FinnAgain] Well _I_ think that ‘apologist’ is a perfectly fine word to use in most circumstances when one is talking about Bush supporters and Bush True Believers. .. what? [/QUOTE] Dude. Posting on topic? That is sooooo three pages ago. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-special-apologist-apoplexy-du-rjung/357068/217 "2006-05-24T14:47:11Z")
[QUOTE=Giraffe] why not … simply call each other assholes? [/QUOTE] Asshole. Well, I’m done. You wanna go somewhere and be all cool for a while? ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-special-apologist-apoplexy-du-rjung/357068/218 "2006-05-24T16:16:14Z")
[QUOTE=Ellis Dee] Then why isn’t that the rule? Then “don’t accuse another poster of trolling” and junior modding could be used as _examples_ of the rule against rules-lawyering. [/QUOTE] First of all, we really don’t want posters accusing each other of trolling, so an overly general rule might not make that completely clear to new posters. Also, I think it would be very difficult to ban all rules-lawyering without significantly restricting legitimate discussion of how the rules work and what constitutes an infraction. Many questions about the rules are based on real-life circumstances. Why was poster A warned for his post, but not poster B for hers? We do clamp down when it gets out of hand, but for the most part we try to err on the side of allowing open discussion of the rules and whether they’re being enforced fairly. > [@](#): > > Unless, of course, you are completely wrong about the intent of the rule against troll accusations. Could be, I suppose. I’m just going by the arguments given to me by the long-time mods and admins when I suggested getting rid of the “don’t call people trolls” rule at the start of my modhood. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-special-apologist-apoplexy-du-rjung/357068/219 "2006-05-24T16:16:44Z")
[QUOTE=bup] Asshole. Well, I’m done. You wanna go somewhere and be all cool for a while? [/QUOTE] Sure! Can we moonwalk? ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2006, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-special-apologist-apoplexy-du-rjung/357068/220 "2006-05-24T16:21:15Z")
[QUOTE=Giraffe] Sure! Can we moonwalk? [/QUOTE] For now, but it’s going to be a lot sadder after [summer](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=372855). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-special-apologist-apoplexy-du-rjung/357068.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tonights-special-apologist-apoplexy-du-rjung/357068.md?page=12)