# Tony LaRussa is (being) an idiot. (Re: Yermín Mercedes) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [May 20, 2021, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559 "2021-05-20T15:48:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/42 "2021-05-21T17:06:37Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > > [@LauderdaleFort](#): > > > > LaRussa has mistreated Yermín needlessly and in public. Even if he had actually seen the sign and did not obey it, any issues have to go behind close doors. So, he saw at 48mph ball and took it to town, so what? > > The “so what” is that HE disrespected his manager in public. He went on to disrespect him a lot more when he told the media flat out that he would continue to do whatever he wanted. “I’ve got to be me”, was his comment. Is that what you do at work? How about the rest of us? Do you intentionally disobey a mandate at work and then announce that you will continue to do so? If you do, I have to wonder how you still have a job. > > Since this is the Pit, I can safely say that Tony LaRussa isn’t the idiot, YOU are. Um, check again. This is the game room, not the pit. That’s something you ought to be noticing. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/43 "2021-05-21T17:25:44Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Um, check again. This is the game room, not the pit. > > That’s something you ought to be noticing. Yeah, it is, and yeah, you’re right! Mea culpa! ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/44 "2021-05-21T20:38:45Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The issue in these types of situations is not about the fans but that losing team feels disrespected and that the winners are trying to rub their noses in their defeat by running up the score and making a humiliating loss even more humiliating. This contributes to making it more difficult to play the game in an atmosphere of mutual respect and sportsmanship. It’s always seemed to me that the major issue behind managers and coaches (in football) getting upset about “running up the score” is that _their_ professional pride and more importantly sense of job security is threatened by lopsided scores. The players (especially scrubeenies who just want a chance to get in there and do something) are much less wound up about it. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/45 "2021-05-21T20:58:18Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > It’s always seemed to me that the major issue behind managers and coaches (in football) getting upset about “running up the score” is that _their_ professional pride and more importantly sense of job security is threatened by lopsided scores. > > The players (especially scrubeenies who just want a chance to get in there and do something) are much less wound up about it. I don’t know who is more upset about it, but my impression is that it’s an issue for players as well. At any rate, in this particular instance it led to an opposing pitcher throwing at Mercedes, so it upset someone enough to impact the game. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/46 "2021-05-21T21:02:16Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > in this particular instance it led to an opposing pitcher throwing at Mercedes, so it upset someone enough to impact the game. The pitcher attempting to injure a player is what impacted the game. That was his choice, he wasn’t forced into it because someone hit a homerun (which I note is pretty much the entire job of a batter). Maybe address that aspect, not someone who was playing the game correctly. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/47 "2021-05-21T21:11:50Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > No matter how much money these players are making, they’re still people with the same emotional makeup as any other people. And if this type of thing makes them feel disrespected and makes them respond with less sportsmanship on their own part (e.g. by throwing at batters) then it’s bad for the game. You are right about one thing: we do expect them to have the same emotions as other adults. However, we don’t expect grown adults to engage in assault because they feel “disrespected.” If you were to disrespect me in the Pit, I wouldn’t be entitled to throw a 100 mph ball at you, now would I? I won’t debate what counts as proper sportsmanship in regards to swinging. But I will say that, if the player did break some unwritten rules, the correct course of action is not to have a violent fit, or to say shitty things about him in public while ignoring the guy who had a violent fit. That aspect of the “unwritten rules” of baseball, where the pitcher gets to be violent towards a batter he feels “disrespected” him? That has no place because it has no place in civilized society. Assault is definitely not “good sportsmanship.” ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/48 "2021-05-21T21:34:34Z")
True enough. But managers have been known to issue the order to hit an opposing batter. One incident that sticks in my memory was years ago when Ohio State was ritualistically beating up on one of their sacrificial lamb early season football opponents. The score was something like 45-0 late in the game when a substitute O.S.U. running back ran it in from about five yards out for the final touchdown. The Ohio State coach (Jim Tressel) was all exercised and apologetic about the TD, saying something about how he shouldn’t have let that happen (apparently the player should have lain down short of the goal line). I guarantee that there was no huge angst over on the Little Sisters of the Poor sideline over being beat 52-0 instead of 45-0. Tressel was thinking about his buddy in the coaching fraternity (and trying to ensure he would never be on the receiving end of such a lopsided score in the future). ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/49 "2021-05-21T21:43:05Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > That means taking a pitch on a 3-0 count and trying for a walk, instead of the more aggressive “swing for the fences” approach. Except that goes out the window when a position player is pitching. Trying to draw a walk of a position player pitching also violates an unwritten rule of baseball. When the other team sends a position player to the mound they are signaling that they are surrendering and just want the game to be over. The unwritten rules dictate that batters don’t work the count in this situation. If it’s even close to the strike zone, swing away. On top of that, it’s bad form to get too cute with that swing. Don’t try to slap a single just over the heads of the infield (which pro hitters could pretty easily do against 50mph pitches) . Swing for the fences. The only really acceptable outcomes are home runs or fly outs. It is generally OK to hit a home run off a position player pitching it is generally not OK to draw a walk if you can help it. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/50 "2021-05-21T21:45:52Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The Ohio State coach (Jim Tressel) was all exercised and apologetic about the TD, saying something about how he shouldn’t have let that happen (apparently the player should have lain down short of the goal line). Typically, they take a knee and let the clock run out. > [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Trying to draw a walk of a position player pitching also violates an unwritten rule of baseball. I disagree. (Also, getting walked by the opposing pitcher is not “trying to draw a walk”.) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/51 "2021-05-21T22:03:52Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > > [@Jackmannii](#): > > > > The Ohio State coach (Jim Tressel) was all exercised and apologetic about the TD, saying something about how he shouldn’t have let that happen (apparently the player should have lain down short of the goal line). > > Typically, they take a knee and let the clock run out. This was a substitute running back in his first game ever. I don’t buy the crap about taking a knee. Once you’ve pulled your starters for the bench-sitters, why shouldn’t they be allowed to try hard? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/52 "2021-05-21T22:22:43Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I disagree. You are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/53 "2021-05-21T22:33:45Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The issue in these types of situations is not about the fans but that losing team feels disrespected and that the winners are trying to rub their noses in their defeat by running up the score and making a humiliating loss even more humiliating. This contributes to making it more difficult to play the game in an atmosphere of mutual respect and sportsmanship. I don’t understand why the blame for this alleged problem lies with the team that keeps trying, and not the team that acts like a bunch of crying little sucky-babies because the other team kept trying. > [@asahi](#): > > If the Sox go down the tubes, it’ll be because they’ve got triggered snowflakes for players. To review your position: if La Russa’s team succeeds, that’s because of him. But if his team fails, that’s NOT because of him. And the “Triggered snowflakes” are the players who are fine with… continuing to try to play baseball at 100%, and not the guy whining about “unwritten rules” about NOT trying? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/54 "2021-05-21T22:40:21Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Also, getting walked by the opposing pitcher is not “trying to draw a walk”. Tell that to this guy (bolding mine). > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > That means taking a pitch on a 3-0 count and **trying for a walk** , instead of the more aggressive “swing for the fences” approach. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/55 "2021-05-21T22:49:51Z")
I think the bigger unwritten rule is that, according to La Russa, Mercedes disregarded a sign. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/56 "2021-05-21T22:58:52Z")
Yes, I side with the manager who has a demonstrated track record of success on multiple teams over 3 decades and who served as a consultant for the two most World Series winners. I side with that guy over players who are no doubt talented but haven’t achieved much as a team. ---
**Author:** ![LauderdaleFort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/977dab/32.png) [@LauderdaleFort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LauderdaleFort)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/57 "2021-05-22T00:05:41Z")
Using a position player means you’re saving your bullpen to play my team tomorrow (and beat me, by the way, which is what happened). If you’re playing your game for the best of your team, why can’t I? If he saw the sign and disregarded it, cool; TLR can chew his ass in the clubhouse. But once he mistreated him in public and said “cool, bean him”, TLR lost any moral high ground. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/58 "2021-05-22T00:28:38Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Yes, I side with the manager If there’s a “side” to be taken between manager and players, that is the manager’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/59 "2021-05-22T02:28:21Z")
In tonight’s annals of No Respect For The Game: Despite using only three pitchers through the first 7 innings of their game against Atlanta, the Pirates, down 12-0, decided to bring in a shortstop (Wilmer Difo) to pitch the 8th inning. In the course of his adventure, Difo gave up three doubles, two singles, a sacrifice fly and a grand slam, putting the Braves on top 20-0. Apparently the Atlanta hitters weren’t taking a lot of pitches. Tony LaRussa is probably disgusted. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/60 "2021-05-22T09:24:41Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Yes, I side with the manager who has a demonstrated track record of success You side with the snowflake who threw a hissyfit in the media because a player didn’t see a sign. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/61 "2021-05-22T13:29:15Z")
Not who didn’t see a sign but who ‘plays his game’ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559.md?page=4)