# Tony LaRussa is (being) an idiot. (Re: Yermín Mercedes) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [May 20, 2021, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559 "2021-05-20T15:48:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/62 "2021-05-22T13:42:35Z")
So the losing team’s feelings are hurt and that bothers you. You don’t think people should do things that hurt other people’s feelings, especially when when one side is disadvantaged. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/63 "2021-05-22T18:26:53Z")
Heaven forbid baseball players play baseball instead of worry about an old fart’s feelings. ---
**Author:** ![stuccosuperstar2020](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@stuccosuperstar2020](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuccosuperstar2020)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2021, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/64 "2021-05-23T06:10:54Z")
This subject might be one of the greatest debates in the history of sports, its on so many levels. On one hand, you have to question the Twins who so mismanaged their bullpen that they had to bring in a position player to pitch in a 9 inning game and throw a 48 mph teeball shot. One the other, maybe LaRussa doesn’t want the Twins pitchers headhunting his batters. I’m not a LaRussa fan but he’s won world series with two different teams and after about a decade off the bench he has his team in first place at the age of 76 so who am I to argue? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2021, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/65 "2021-05-23T15:10:22Z")
> [@stuccosuperstar2020](#): > > On one hand, you have to question the Twins who so mismanaged their bullpen that they had to bring in a position player to pitch in a 9 inning game and throw a 48 mph teeball shot. Just to clarify: the game was a blowout, and the Twins had brought in a position player so as not to burn through their bullpen in a game that they had no chance to win. This particular tactic has become increasingly common in the past few years, and they only “had to” have a position player pitch because they actually _were_ managing their bullpen, with future games in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2021, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/66 "2021-05-23T17:29:41Z")
> [@stuccosuperstar2020](#): > > One the other, maybe LaRussa doesn’t want the Twins pitchers headhunting his batters. Yeah…that’s why after the game, he said he had no problem with the Twins pitchers headhunting his batters. That makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/67 "2021-05-24T13:57:01Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Tell that to this guy (bolding mine). My language may have been confusing, and I apologize for that. A player can “try to draw a walk” by taking pitches, but it’s a passive activity not an active one. If the context is “showing up the other team” - as it is here - then no one can blame a guy who kept his bat on his shoulder and allowed the pitcher to throw pitches out of the strike zone. That’s entirely on the pitcher, and is not showing up anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/68 "2021-05-24T14:14:31Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > you don’t stop playing hard What does this look like in baseball if not: > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > taking a pitch on a 3-0 count and trying for a walk, instead of the more aggressive “swing for the fences” approach Baseball is a game where playing hard means attacking every pitch with your full effort. It is VERY different than football, soccer or basketball, where you can choose to run out the clock and avoid running up the score. In baseball, to avoid running up the score, you have to stop playing your best, particularly if you’re going to do it from the batter’s box. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/69 "2021-05-24T14:26:40Z")
While I’m not really sure I’m super excited to wade into what is a weirdly fraught discussion for some reason, I think I disagree with the consensus here. While I think Tony LaRussa is a crummy person and a poor choice to manage the Chicago White Sox in 2021, in this case I think he’s right and Yermin Mercedes is wrong. And I think the position of the LaRussas of the world is being mis-stated here. It’s not only (or even mostly) about preserving the feelings of opposing players - although I’m surprised and depressed to see a bunch of intelligent people on the Straight Dope, of all places, using “feelings” as a snarl word. I think the “unwritten rules” exist as a function of the fact that any two people who are opponents today might be teammates literally tomorrow. If Mercedes swinging away happened to piss off, I dunno, Byron Buxton, and down the road LaRussa has to manage Buxton (or the White Sox are trying to sign Buxton, or whatever) - then it could hurt Chicago in the long run… and to very little gain in the short term. Now, you can argue that it “shouldn’t” piss off Buxton, but that’s irrelevant, because the White Sox didn’t hire LaRussa to manage in terms of what should or shouldn’t be. He has to manage with what is, at least as far as he can tell. There’s also the idea that annoying another team might lead them to give extra effort to beating you. I’m not sure I believe this is a real thing, but enough actual players and managers seem to believe it that I’m not willing to dismiss it out of hand. So - from Tony LaRussa’s perspective - there are a lot of disadvantages to Mercedes swinging away there. What are the advantages? That it makes Mercedes happy, I guess? And sure, it’s important to keep your employees happy, but there’s a line somewhere. And here’s the thing: you can say, and I might agree with you, that all of the above is bullshit, that the Twins don’t care and none of this matters. But I’m not paid to make that decision, and neither are you. The White Sox hired Tony LaRussa to decide those things, and he’s accountable for those decisions so he ought to be allowed to make them. When Mercedes substituted his own judgment for LaRussa’s by ignoring the take sign, he was unquestionably in the wrong in my opinion. You don’t get to just decide to not follow the policies your organization sets out without consequence, even if you or I or the Straight Dope think those policies are misguided. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/70 "2021-05-24T14:34:18Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > So - from Tony LaRussa’s perspective - there are a lot of disadvantages to Mercedes swinging away there. What are the advantages? That it makes Mercedes happy, I guess? And sure, it’s important to keep your employees happy, but there’s a line somewhere. I don’t necessarily disagree with you on this. However, when LaRussa then publicly excoriated Mercedes for swinging away, _he_ crossed the line, and risked losing the confidence of his players. That was a dumb move, and one that may well have longer-term consequences than Mercedes cracking a cheap home run off of a position player pitching mop-up duty in a blowout. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/71 "2021-05-24T14:36:55Z")
I mean, I guess? Is it really that rare for a manager to criticize a player publicly? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/72 "2021-05-24T14:41:59Z")
Yeah, it is pretty rare, especially if it’s a player who doesn’t have a history of disagreements with his manager, or other infractions (like drug use or off-the-field issues). Generally speaking, if the manager needs to correct or discipline a player, it’s done in the clubhouse, or privately, and the specifics aren’t discussed with the media. In this case, Mercedes is a guy who is finally, at age 28, getting a chance to be a full-time player, and he has been absolutely murdering the ball this season. He’s been one of the Sox’s best players this year, his from-out-of-nowhere success has been a great story in Chicago, and, IMO, there was absolutely no reason for LaRussa to air that dirty laundry publicly. It’s important for a team’s players to know that their manager (or coach, in other sports) has their backs, and will stick up for them. Publicly criticizing one of your players (especially for what is, in the grand scheme of things, a pretty minor thing) is something that can easily imperil the players’ trust in their manager. LaRussa already had some people questioning how much rapport he’d have with players who are young enough to be his grandsons, and he didn’t help his cause here. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/73 "2021-05-24T15:02:19Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > It’s not only (or even mostly) about preserving the feelings of opposing players - although I’m surprised and depressed to see a bunch of intelligent people on the Straight Dope, of all places, using “feelings” as a snarl word I’m a big advocate that feelings are important and that injury is more than just a physical phenomenon. But we’re talking about a game where the entire goal is to beat the other team. They choose to play this game, and they are well-compensated for it. Players need to realize that being beaten, having a homerun hit off them, or a player celebrating because they did what they were supposed to do - none of those are insults. > [@storyteller0910](#): > > So - from Tony LaRussa’s perspective - there are a lot of disadvantages to Mercedes swinging away there. What are the advantages? 1. Mercedes will see a direct impact to future salary based on stats such as how many home runs he hits. 2. It’s what the fans want to see. Baseball at the professional level is not played because a bunch of men want to go have fun. It is played so they can entertain the fans. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/74 "2021-05-24T15:47:54Z")
Suppose Mercedes had taken the pitch. Would it have been okay for him to homer on a 3-1 pitch? If so, this is beyond ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/75 "2021-05-24T15:53:03Z")
Again, the problem here is not inherently that he swung on 3-0. It’s that he ignored the specific instruction of his boss. Again, LaRussa is responsible for the outcomes of his decisions, so it seems reasonable that he be allowed to actually make those decisions. In his judgment, the negatives of having Mercedes swing away on 3-0 outweighed the positives. I’m not sure I can envision a circumstance where he shouldn’t have the right to make that call. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/76 "2021-05-24T16:02:18Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > Again, LaRussa is responsible for the outcomes of his decisions, so it seems reasonable that he be allowed to actually make those decisions. In his judgment, the negatives of having Mercedes swing away on 3-0 outweighed the positives. He absolutely has the right, and the player should have done as instructed. La Russa made an even bigger error, however, by airing clubhouse laundry in public. On top of all that, the ‘unwritten rule’ isn’t a rule and it’s fucking stupid to boot. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/77 "2021-05-24T16:04:52Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I disagree. As to this, I gotta tell you, I don’t know how you can. The tradition of getting the bat off your shoulder late in blowouts, and trying to AVOID walking, is much better known than “don’t try on 3-0.” ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/78 "2021-05-24T16:29:04Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > Again, the problem here is not inherently that he swung on 3-0. It’s that he ignored the specific instruction of his boss. Sure, I agree with this part. Mercedes should have been properly castigated in the locker room. But La Russa was mad that he would swing at a 3-0 pitch, not that he ignored the sign. All his statements were about sportsmanship, respect for the game, and not swinging at 3-0. He said almost nothing about ignoring a sign. Do you think La Russa encourages the other team to try to hit his player because he ignored a sign? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/79 "2021-05-24T16:34:31Z")
Yes, the “not following the sign” thing is just a post-hoc justification to try to excuse La Russa. There’s no discussion about “unwritten” rules about ignoring signs - nobody disagrees you should follow reasonable instructions from coaches. This is clearly about swinging at a 3-0 pitch NOT about ignoring the instruction. La Russa’s post-game rant wasn’t about the sign he gave but about Yermin not respecting the unwritten rules of the game by swinging at the pitch. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/80 "2021-05-24T17:17:06Z")
Those are the same thing. The sign that was ignored was a sign to not swing at the 3-0 pitch. I don’t understand the distinction you’re trying to make. Part of Tony LaRussa’s job is to establish a set of rules and policies for the team, since having each individual player create their own policies would be chaos. It would appear that some of LaRussa’s policies cover behavior in a game that’s gotten out of hand. Since it would be dumb for any manager to sit in the clubhouse and enumerate their preferred response to every conceivable situation, LaRussa communicated this to Mercedes in real time and Mercedes ignored the instruction. Had Mercedes **not** been given a take sign, and swung away, I very much doubt there’d be an issue here. In fact, if Mercedes had just said, “hey, I didn’t see the sign, my mistake, won’t happen again,” I doubt there’d be an issue here either. But Mercedes has made it clear that he substituted his own judgment for that of his manager, and further that he fully intends to keep doing that going forward. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/81 "2021-05-24T17:28:15Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > Those are the same thing. The sign that was ignored was a sign to not swing at the 3-0 pitch. I don’t understand the distinction you’re trying to make. The distinction is LaRussa wasn’t so much carping on Yarmin disobeying him in the press conference and comments the day after, but rather on not respecting those “unwritten rules.” The focus – to me at least – clearly seemed to be on the violation of “baseball culture” and not the violation of disobeying the manager’s orders. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559.md?page=5)