# Tony LaRussa is (being) an idiot. (Re: Yermín Mercedes) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [May 20, 2021, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559 "2021-05-20T15:48:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/102 "2021-05-25T00:22:42Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > According to Tim himself (and I’ll take his word for it), everything is all good. Honestly, I hope so. I’m a Brewers fan, but my wife and her family are all Sox fans, and they’ve become my “second team” over the years. The Sox have been playing well so far, and it’d be a shame to see a promising season get undermined by clubhouse unrest. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/103 "2021-05-25T01:04:23Z")
I don’t think the players care that much about what the media and fans are talking about. They really like each other, they are playing well, they have a really promising future, and they want to win a world series this year. We didn’t know how to win last year and it was evident down the stretch and in our playoff series, such as it was. Tony has experience winning and the players will take care of playing. I’m hoping for an exciting October on the South Side, and it’s a long season, so I’m just trying to enjoy the ride. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/104 "2021-05-25T01:41:29Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > It seems to me that this is an asymmetric argument, meaning the two sides are coming from two different perspectives and therefore arguing two viewpoints that don’t necessarily conflict. One side is saying that unwritten rules are dumb and shouldn’t exist, and therefore Mercedes did nothing wrong, therefore LaRussa was wrong to say anything. The other side seems to be saying that those unwritten rules don’t just get cancelled because we want them cancelled. Each individual team will react the way they want to violations of these “rules”, and that is the world we currently live in. LaRussa knew that the Twins would respond, which is why he gave the take sign. His postgame comments stated as much, that there would be a consequence. It turned out that consequence was a ball thrown behind Mercedes, and nobody got hurt, and the Twins pitcher and manager suspended. Maybe he doesn’t throw behind Mercedes if LaRussa said nothing publicly. Maybe they throw it at his ribs, maybe they throw at Tim Andserson. Maybe somebody gets hit on the wrist and we lose another of our best players. Yes this would be very wrong by the Twins, but LaRussa has no control over what they do, he manages the White Sox, and his job is to put this team in the best position to win in October. Letting the players freelance and do whatever they want whenever they want is a sure way to prevent us winning a championship and probably get some people hurt. Homeruns are good, unwritten rules are dumb, but we can’t just make other teams not care about them and not react to them just because we say so. If the unwritten rules are so important, write them down and codify them. Otherwise, nah. And if your response to “insult” is to intentionally do something that may cause serious injury, you (general) can fuck right out of professional sports, or literally any other part of civilized society. We get real pissy and holier-than-thou about revenge and honor killings, but defend the same type of activity of sports players? Again, nah. I’m still of the opinion that a batter intentionally beaned by a pitcher gets to take the bat on the way to the mound. ---
**Author:** ![omenran](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omenran/32/3318_2.png) [@omenran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/omenran)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/105 "2021-05-25T02:34:44Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > I’m still of the opinion that a batter intentionally beaned by a pitcher gets to take the bat on the way to the mound. Yes; because what baseball needs is more intentional injuries and hurt players. Why bother risking one career when you can risk two? Why not have both teams just fight to determine a winner? Intentionally throwing at a batter is bad, no one should do it. For any reason. Players are getting hurt and injured enough from unintentional hit by pitches. Hit by pitches have been increasing, quite noticably this year. Also injuries have seemed to be up this year as well. There’s even a new instance of a pitcher punching a bench in anger after a bad start and breaking his hand. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/106 "2021-05-25T02:38:33Z")
> [@omenran](#): > > Yes; because what baseball needs is more intentional injuries and hurt players. Why bother risking one career when you can risk two? Why not have both teams just fight to determine a winner? Boo-fucking-hoo. One party has already gone beyond the bounds of the game, yet you still want to protect them from their consequences. Don’t want to get hurt? Don’t try to hurt someone. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/107 "2021-05-25T02:40:13Z")
> [@omenran](#): > > Intentionally throwing at a batter is bad, no one should do it. For any reason. It’s amazing to me that this is at all tolerated and considered “part of the game.” As for the Sox, they have a good team, and they will do well. I couldn’t care less about them, being what used to be a rare South Side Cubs fan. I would love to see them choke in the World Series just to rub it into my annoying-as-shit (in a friendly team rivalry sort of way) neighborhood White Sox friends, but I suspect they will do well. It was evident four or five years ago that they should be doing very well indeed right now, and they’re right on schedule. I actually liked LaRussa well enough until this bullshittery. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/108 "2021-05-25T05:36:36Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > It’s amazing to me that this is at all tolerated and considered “part of the game.” I assume somebody will be seriously hurt and then suddenly the focus will shift to safety like it did in the NFL. But it’ll take a lot. Like it did in the NFL. ---
**Author:** ![stuccosuperstar2020](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@stuccosuperstar2020](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuccosuperstar2020)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/109 "2021-05-25T09:40:38Z")
Whatever. The basis of my point is still correct. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/110 "2021-05-25T12:49:50Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > I mean what else are we going to talk about. How Tommy Nido is the Mets best hitter? We could start a betting pool on when/if Mets fill-in Cameron Maybin gets his first hit of the season (he’s started 0 for 19). ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/111 "2021-05-25T13:09:47Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > If the unwritten rules are so important, write them down and codify them. Otherwise, nah. > > And if your response to “insult” is to intentionally do something that may cause serious injury, you (general) can fuck right out of professional sports, or literally any other part of civilized society. We get real pissy and holier-than-thou about revenge and honor killings, but defend the same type of activity of sports players? Again, nah. See this is exactly what I said in the post you quoted. You want to just assert that things are different now, but you can’t just force all 32 teams to adopt your new paradigm just because you say so. Get MLB to pass a rule invalidating any unwritten rules. Get it codified. Until then you are just wishful thinking and risking the health of our players. Yes it is very wrong for teams to bean players for stuff like this, but they DO IT ANYWAY. We need to play for the world we live in, not the ideal world we wish we lived in. And this is not defending anything, it’s just stating the way things are, not the way we wished it to be. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/112 "2021-05-25T15:56:04Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Yes it is very wrong for teams to bean players for stuff like this, but they DO IT ANYWAY. Like I said, allow the batters to actually provide consequences to this shit. For some reason, pitchers are protected from the physical consequences of their egregious attacks in a way almost no other sports professionals are. And “that’s the way it’s always been” is shitty in politics, business, and life. Why is baseball immune to civilization and getting over hurt feelings? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/113 "2021-05-25T16:01:27Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > And “that’s the way it’s always been” is shitty in politics, business, and life. Why is baseball immune to civilization and getting over hurt feelings? This is a very poor summary of anything I’ve said. I said you cannot force every other team in baseball to no longer get upset about just because you want it very badly. The world does not work that way. Go talk to Rob Manfred and tell him to make it official that unwritten rules no longer exist. Otherwise you are just trying to manifest your wishes on the world. Also, let batters take a swing at pitchers when they get plunked? A lethal weapon? More injuries and suspensions? This is supposed to be a solution? Losing even more players? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/114 "2021-05-25T16:10:08Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Also, let batters take a swing at pitchers when they get plunked? A lethal weapon? More injuries and suspensions? This is supposed to be a solution? Losing even more players? I’ll say it again. > [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Boo-fucking-hoo. One party has already gone beyond the bounds of the game, yet you still want to protect them from their consequences. Don’t want to get hurt? Don’t try to hurt someone. We’re literally defending people on the pitchers mound intentionally trying to harm opposing players. We expect more from children. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/115 "2021-05-25T16:15:41Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > We’re literally defending people on the pitchers mound intentionally trying to harm opposing players. We expect more from children. No I’m not defending anything of the sort. I’m saying that they are GOING TO DO IT ANYWAY EVEN IF YOU WANT THEM NOT TO. Your attitude is going to get people hurt. Yes it’s wrong to bean hitters. Yes they should, and do get suspended. But they are still going to do it unless it is officially outlawed. You can’t just change reality through the force of your will alone. I don’t want our players getting hurt because I want to win a world series. None of this is a defense of beaning people. This is exactly the point I made in my first post to this thread. We are talking past each other, and you can’t see it because you are so righteously angry about the issue. I agree with you that it is wrong. All I’m saying is that just because it is wrong doesn’t mean that it isn’t going to KEEP HAPPENING! ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/116 "2021-05-25T16:17:12Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Your attitude is going to get people hurt. People are already getting hurt. > [@Airbeck](#): > > I’m saying that they are GOING TO DO IT ANYWAY EVEN IF YOU WANT THEM NOT TO. I’ll bet they stop after the first one receives consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/117 "2021-05-25T16:21:51Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > People are already getting hurt. You are advocating for far more injuries with your wild west revenge bat swinging idea. > [@Chisquirrel](#): > > I’ll bet they stop after the first one receives consequences. So why aren’t you lobbying Rob Manfred to create much harsher penalties for beaning then? What good is all this ranting on a message board. Nothing you say here is going to change baseball one iota. The game is the game until there is an official change to the rules. No matter how strenuously you express your desire for the game to be different, you do not have the power to unilaterally change how 32 teams play the game. It’s not a function of how badly you want things to be different. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/118 "2021-05-25T16:41:19Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > You are advocating for far more injuries with your wild west revenge bat swinging idea. Boo-hoo. Consequences. “Pitchers are going to try to injure opposing batters because they feel insulted.” This is, as you’ve stated, “the world we live in.” But flipping that around to, “Batters are free to attempt to injure pitchers AFTER THE PITCHER ATTEMPTS TO HURT THEM,” is so absolutely beyond the pale and terrible and horrific and I’m a real piece of shit. Seriously, do you not see the absurdity? Think through the actual scenario. Taking a shot at a pitcher that intentionally beans a batter is allowed. WHO THE FUCK IS GOING TO INTENTIONALLY THROW AT A BATTER? Look, I just solved all the problems by providing consequences, without the consequences ever being enforced. Thank you, thank you, make sure my bust in Cooperstown catches my good side. > [@Airbeck](#): > > So why aren’t you lobbying Rob Manfred to create much harsher penalties for beaning then? What good is all this ranting on a message board. This entire line of “if you’re not personally in Manfred’s office holding his puppy hostage until he changes the rules to make you happy, you’re not actually doing anything,” is absolutely ridiculous. No shit nothing said here is going to change baseball’s bullshit and hurt fee-fee pitchers and managers. We’re all just randos exchanging electrons. Literally nothing else I have to say to you is Game Room appropriate given this insistence on “do something or shut up”. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/119 "2021-05-25T16:45:31Z")
Why are you being so aggressive and angry? I have no clue why are pounding the table with spittle spraying out of your mouth mad right now about this. I’ve said nothing to cause you to rage like this. You seem unhinged and I think this is a good time to end the conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/120 "2021-05-25T17:00:08Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > So why aren’t you lobbying Rob Manfred to create much harsher penalties for beaning then? Even if the Commissioner’s Office decided to institute far harsher penalties for pitchers deliberately throwing at batters, changes would have to be approved by the players’ union, which is a doubtful prospect. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559/121 "2021-05-25T17:03:09Z")
Which is exactly why we can’t just will away the unwritten rules, as dumb or outdated as they are. Your one team can decide to ignore them, but other teams are not going to just go along unless something official changes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-larussa-is-being-an-idiot-re-yermin-mercedes/942559.md?page=7)