# Tony Snow and the new American dictatorship **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 22, 2007, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-snow-and-the-new-american-dictatorship/409015 "2007-06-22T16:36:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2007, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-snow-and-the-new-american-dictatorship/409015/41 "2007-06-24T15:59:37Z")
“‘Mission Accomplished!’ Here’s your bonus.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2007, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-snow-and-the-new-american-dictatorship/409015/42 "2007-06-24T16:12:25Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] You mean like when executives get multi-million dollar bonuses for laying off a large part of their workforce so that they can show an a temporary “profit” to the stockholders? [/QUOTE] A worthy point, and I rise to expand, not to correct. It is even more insidious than that. Many of these CEO’s have their pay pegged to the stock price: stock goes up, more goodies, stock goes down, merely an obscene amount of money. The stock market is a herd creature, it has certain buttons that are easily pushed. For years, one of those buttons was the notion of a hard-nosed, no-nonsense CEO who would “cut the fat”, go “lean and mean”. Give them a CEO who was devoted to that premise, and they would rush to buy in, as everyone knows the real problem is coddled and lazy workers. Why else do you imagine New Coke bombed? Lazy workers. Probably Teamsters. Cigar chewing labor bosses. You know the drill. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2007, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-snow-and-the-new-american-dictatorship/409015/43 "2007-06-24T16:39:18Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] For years, one of those buttons was the notion of a hard-nosed, no-nonsense CEO who would “cut the fat”, go “lean and mean”. [/QUOTE] For example, the predatory asswad who gave us the Sunbeam handmixer which strips its own gears the very first time it’s used, to blend _cake batter_. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2007, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-snow-and-the-new-american-dictatorship/409015/44 "2007-06-24T16:43:48Z")
It simply amazes me when someone says they want our government to be run like a business. Do you know how many businesses fail within five years? Of those that don’t, do you know how many turn a profit within five years? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2007, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-snow-and-the-new-american-dictatorship/409015/45 "2007-06-24T16:51:35Z")
Well, there is Blackwater, who provides mercen…ah, professional security for the Bushiviks in Iraq. A fairly recent start up, and doing rather well by all accounts. One can do quite well, it would seem, if one provides a needed service. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2007, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-snow-and-the-new-american-dictatorship/409015/46 "2007-06-24T17:00:25Z")
Maybe our leaders are supposed to sell off as much of our country as possible and bank the profits in an offshore account, or fire all American government workers and outsource the jobs to North Korea? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2007, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-snow-and-the-new-american-dictatorship/409015/47 "2007-06-24T17:04:52Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] You mean like when executives get multi-million dollar bonuses for laying off a large part of their workforce so that they can show an a temporary “profit” to the stockholders? [/QUOTE] No. Businesses with strong Washington lobbies are indiscernable from government itself. I mean businesses like Standard Industrial Supply, where the CEO sweats the board meetings and the stockholders are people who can read and comprehend the books. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2007, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-snow-and-the-new-american-dictatorship/409015/48 "2007-06-24T17:06:47Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] No. Businesses with strong Washington lobbies are indiscernable from government itself. I mean businesses like Standard Industrial Supply, where the CEO sweats the board meetings and the stockholders are people who can read and comprehend the books. [/QUOTE] You do know that the goals of a company and the goals of a government have absolutely nothing to do with each other, right? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2007, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-snow-and-the-new-american-dictatorship/409015/49 "2007-06-24T17:25:37Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Let them lose money when they fail miserably. [/QUOTE] And when today’s Molly Maguires get their necks stretched, how much do we dock Pinkerton’s pay? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2007, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-snow-and-the-new-american-dictatorship/409015/50 "2007-06-24T17:34:13Z")
Ah, the classics! ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2007, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-snow-and-the-new-american-dictatorship/409015/51 "2007-06-24T18:11:19Z")
Yeah, it’s really saying something when you’ve got to hark back to the 19th century to find anybody else who thinks this is a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2007, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-snow-and-the-new-american-dictatorship/409015/52 "2007-06-24T18:45:41Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] You mean like when executives get multi-million dollar bonuses for laying off a large part of their workforce so that they can show an a temporary “profit” to the stockholders? [/QUOTE] Not only that, but the line workers continue to draw paychecks until they separate from the company. Aside from the very lowest echelon of outside sales, there is no one in the private sector who is only paid when he succeeds. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2007, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-snow-and-the-new-american-dictatorship/409015/53 "2007-06-24T19:14:34Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] It simply amazes me when someone says they want our government to be run like a business. Do you know how many businesses fail within five years? Of those that don’t, do you know how many turn a profit within five years? [/QUOTE] Even more frightening is the thought that the government should be run with the goal of making money, rather than serving the populace. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2007, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-snow-and-the-new-american-dictatorship/409015/54 "2007-06-24T19:26:29Z")
[QUOTE=CynicalGabe] Even more frightening is the thought that the government should be run with the goal of making money, rather than serving the populace. [/QUOTE] See, here’s where I get Randian. If every public servant were only in it for the money, we’d have proper and effective public service. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2007, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-snow-and-the-new-american-dictatorship/409015/55 "2007-06-24T21:10:48Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] You do know that the goals of a company and the goals of a government have absolutely nothing to do with each other, right? [/QUOTE] Nonsense. Every tycoon worth a flip has a senator or two in his pocket. That’s what robber baron capitalism is all about — Rich Uncle Pennybags partnering with Senator Fatcat to enact legislation that will profit them both. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2007, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-snow-and-the-new-american-dictatorship/409015/56 "2007-06-24T21:26:46Z")
[QUOTE=El Cid Viscoso] See, here’s where I get Randian. If every public servant were only in it for the money, we’d have proper and effective public service. [/QUOTE] How would that work? If district-wide test scores go up, the Superintendent of Schools gets a bonus? Or what? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2007, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-snow-and-the-new-american-dictatorship/409015/57 "2007-06-24T21:40:54Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] How would that work? If district-wide test scores go up, the Superintendent of Schools gets a bonus? Or what? [/QUOTE] No, not at all. If we were to each be properly capitalized and in so doing omit any sense of altruism or other such nonsense, we would all work as hard as we can. If said Superintendent earned $XXX,XXX plus benefits, would you not agree we might lure a rotation of the strongest managers in any given field to maintain our schools? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2007, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-snow-and-the-new-american-dictatorship/409015/58 "2007-06-24T22:04:18Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] How would that work? [/QUOTE] Baksheesh. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2007, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-snow-and-the-new-american-dictatorship/409015/59 "2007-06-24T22:12:50Z")
[QUOTE=El Cid Viscoso] No, not at all. If we were to each be properly capitalized and in so doing omit any sense of altruism or other such nonsense, we would all work as hard as we can. [/quote] Even at ostensibly altruistic enterprises such as public education? [QUOTE=El Cid Viscoso] If said Superintendent earned $XXX,XXX plus benefits, would you not agree we might lure a rotation of the strongest managers in any given field to maintain our schools? [/QUOTE] So, just pay top officials **more?** That’s how you capitalize government? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2007, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-snow-and-the-new-american-dictatorship/409015/60 "2007-06-24T22:30:43Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] So, just pay top officials **more?** That’s how you capitalize government? [/QUOTE] Not just top officials, pay each position competitively. Accordingly, school executives get executive fucking wages. Think about an Intel bigwig taking a few years off to manage a Santa Clara school district. Would he run the thing like a business or would he keep cranking out a half-assed community outreach? As for altruism? Professionally, that shit’s a bad trip. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-snow-and-the-new-american-dictatorship/409015.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tony-snow-and-the-new-american-dictatorship/409015.md?page=4)