# Too cynical? Mr Obama and Gen Petraeus's new assignment **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 27, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-cynical-mr-obama-and-gen-petraeuss-new-assignment/544699 "2010-06-27T19:12:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/put_down_the_sabre)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-cynical-mr-obama-and-gen-petraeuss-new-assignment/544699/1 "2010-06-27T19:12:46Z")
I had an unworthy thought. Though I don’t like him (I think he’s the symbol of a military that’s getting more and more involved in politics) General Petraeus is popular and seen as very competent. His brand is relatively untarnished. But at this point, everybody more or less knows that Afghanistan is going to end in some kind of defeat for the west. Things just aren’t working out – the Americans squandered the years after 2001, when the Taliban looked beaten. So things are gonna go wrong in Afghanistan, and whoever leads the force is not going to look quite so good. So by putting Gen Petraeus there, Mr Obama might neutralise a potential political opponent. Crazy thought? pdts ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-cynical-mr-obama-and-gen-petraeuss-new-assignment/544699/2 "2010-06-27T19:19:34Z")
That was exactly my thought when I heard that Petraeus was getting the job. OTOH, Petraeus is the guy with the credit for coming up with the surge, so why wouldn’t he get the call to try and do the same thing in Afghanistan? I also agree with you that Afghanistan, regardless of who leads the U.S. effort, isn’t going to end well. I find that a much more likely reason for McChrystal’s stunningly stupid comments and lack of staff supervision—he wanted out from under his own strategy—than the idea that a 4-star SF general and staff ran their mouths off in front of a reporter. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-cynical-mr-obama-and-gen-petraeuss-new-assignment/544699/3 "2010-06-27T19:32:30Z")
> [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](#): > > So things are gonna go wrong in Afghanistan, and whoever leads the force is not going to look quite so good. So by putting Gen Petraeus there, Mr Obama might neutralise a potential political opponent. > > Crazy thought? > > pdts I think Petraeus is too smart for that. Besides, all he has to do is suggest a strategy to “win” that he knows Obama will reject. Then, Obama gets the blame and not him. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-cynical-mr-obama-and-gen-petraeuss-new-assignment/544699/4 "2010-06-27T19:34:33Z")
How many times does Petraeus have to categorically deny any interest in a future career in politics before people believe him? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-cynical-mr-obama-and-gen-petraeuss-new-assignment/544699/5 "2010-06-27T19:37:13Z")
One more thing. It’s certainly possible that Petraeus already believes that we’re probably going to have to leave Afghanistan in conditions other than victorious. And he’s willing to go down in the history books as the guy who “Lost Afghanistan” if that’s what’s best for the country. ---
**Author:** ![put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/put_down_the_sabre)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-cynical-mr-obama-and-gen-petraeuss-new-assignment/544699/6 "2010-06-27T19:38:04Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > That was exactly my thought when I heard that Petraeus was getting the job. OTOH, Petraeus is the guy with the credit for coming up with the surge, so why wouldn’t he get the call to try and do the same thing in Afghanistan? > > I also agree with you that Afghanistan, regardless of who leads the U.S. effort, isn’t going to end well. I find that a much more likely reason for McChrystal’s stunningly stupid comments and lack of staff supervision—he wanted out from under his own strategy—than the idea that a 4-star SF general and staff ran their mouths off in front of a reporter. Well it’s possible of course, but don’t forget that they were stranded for a long time with the reporter. The fact that it was, as you say, his staff that said the worst of it also makes me doubt the story a little. But in the end I just think that General McChrystal wasn’t getting enough sleep! I think it’s time we put this ‘24’ inspired superhuman military leader stuff to bed. It just seems to breed incompetence. pdts ---
**Author:** ![put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/put_down_the_sabre)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-cynical-mr-obama-and-gen-petraeuss-new-assignment/544699/7 "2010-06-27T19:39:14Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > How many times does Petraeus have to categorically deny any interest in a future career in politics before people believe him? It’s standard for politicians to do that. But I also didn’t say that Petraeus was interested in politics. I was asking about _Obama’s_ strategy, not his. pdts ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-cynical-mr-obama-and-gen-petraeuss-new-assignment/544699/8 "2010-06-27T19:41:29Z")
> [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](#): > > It’s standard for politicians to do that. > > But I also didn’t say that Petraeus was interested in politics. I was asking about _Obama’s_ strategy, not his. > > pdts It may be standard to say they don’t have a desire to be president, but I can’t imagine it’s “standard” for politicians to say they don’t have an interest in a career in politics. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/put_down_the_sabre)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-cynical-mr-obama-and-gen-petraeuss-new-assignment/544699/9 "2010-06-27T19:42:42Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It may be standard to say they don’t have a desire to be president, but I can’t imagine it’s “standard” for politicians to say they don’t have an interest in a career in politics. :dubious: Somewhere in the middle ground – that they have no intention of running for a particular office, etc. pdts ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-cynical-mr-obama-and-gen-petraeuss-new-assignment/544699/10 "2010-06-27T19:47:31Z")
The way to say it is, “I’m concentrating on the job I have now, I don’t want to get into hypotheticals, etc, etc.” It’s easy to deflect questions about a future in politics (because after all, a general is supposed to keep his mouth shut about political questions) without categorically refusing a future career in politics. ---
**Author:** ![put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/put_down_the_sabre)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-cynical-mr-obama-and-gen-petraeuss-new-assignment/544699/11 "2010-06-27T19:48:21Z")
Oh well, this is a bit of a sidetrack anyway. DP doesn’t need to be planning a political career for my question to stand. pdts ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-cynical-mr-obama-and-gen-petraeuss-new-assignment/544699/12 "2010-06-27T19:49:09Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > How many times does Petraeus have to categorically deny any interest in a future career in politics before people believe him? Remember how many times Saddam told us he had no WMD’s? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-cynical-mr-obama-and-gen-petraeuss-new-assignment/544699/13 "2010-06-27T19:58:01Z")
Saddam’s Dilemma: how to convince Iran that he had them, while convincing everybody else he didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-cynical-mr-obama-and-gen-petraeuss-new-assignment/544699/14 "2010-06-27T20:22:38Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Remember how many times Saddam told us he had no WMD’s? So, Petraeus really has no political ambitions. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-cynical-mr-obama-and-gen-petraeuss-new-assignment/544699/15 "2010-06-27T21:02:25Z")
Really, I thought it was blatantly obvious. As I understand it, whoever Obama puts in charge has to be confirmed by the senate for some reason. Petraeus has already been confirmed for a far more serious job. This way, Obama gets someone he can trust, who knows what the hell is going on, on the ground and in the job, in time for the offensive which is scheduled. As opposed to having to expend all kinds of political capital and vetting for someone else. Which can be done later, Obama needs someone in the position right _now_. Again, they’re planning for a major offensive soon. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-cynical-mr-obama-and-gen-petraeuss-new-assignment/544699/16 "2010-06-28T00:40:54Z")
The problem is first, you can’t fight a war on the enemy’s terms. We’re doing that in Afghanistan and Iraq. We did it in Vietnam and Korea. Wasn’t it Reagan who said, “never again will we send our men over to fight a war we’re afraid to let them win.” Second why are we in Afghanistan? To get Osama Bin Laden. He probably isn’t even there anymore, if he’s alive. If you all recall GW Bush said to the Taliban, “Give us Osama and that’ll be it.” If Afghanistan had turned him over, we wouldn’t be there. Did we care about the oppresive Taliban rule? No, we cared no more than we care about Myanmar/Burma today. When we “Won” this war in 2001 after a few months, we won not because of our military but simply because the local warlords switched sides. Doesn’t take a genius to figure out if they swtiched to us, they can switch back. Has anyone ever read a history book? The British controlled Afghanistan and a lot of what is now Pakistan and India, simply by bribing the local warlords over to their side. So you now have us in a country trying to find a guy, who’s most likely in Pakistan or dead. The whole thing is a bloody mess, so let’s just quit. ---
**Author:** ![put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/put_down_the_sabre)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-cynical-mr-obama-and-gen-petraeuss-new-assignment/544699/17 "2010-06-28T01:10:55Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > As opposed to having to expend all kinds of political capital and vetting for someone else. Which can be done later, Obama needs someone in the position right _now_. Again, they’re planning for a major offensive soon. Pshaw, the last ‘major offensive’ Marjah (remember the government in a box) doesn’t seem to have gone too well… pdts ---
**Author:** ![jebert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ec9cab/32.png) [@jebert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jebert)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2010, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-cynical-mr-obama-and-gen-petraeuss-new-assignment/544699/18 "2010-06-29T02:09:51Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > Second why are we in Afghanistan? To get Osama Bin Laden. He probably isn’t even there anymore, if he’s alive. > … > > So you now have us in a country trying to find a guy, who’s most likely in Pakistan or dead. > > The whole thing is a bloody mess, so let’s just quit. I thought that the reason for being in Afghanistan was to rid the place of the Taliban in order to deny al Queda a base from which they could operate freely to attack the West. That is a worthy goal; its achievability is quite another matter.