# Too many assholes, not enuf time **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 30, 2001, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-many-assholes-not-enuf-time/52382 "2001-01-30T07:45:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2001, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-many-assholes-not-enuf-time/52382/21 "2001-01-31T14:57:54Z")
I think DITWD is confusing someone telling him he is wrong with a personal attack. He says he has cites and links to prove his point, but he doesn’t. If someone points out the fact that his link is broken or that the cite provided is not a good one (he linked to a chiropractor posting on a message board, for chrissake!), he seems to take it as a personal attack. You have still to prove your point. Unless your point is how easily you are offended _or_ that you are thin-skinned. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2001, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-many-assholes-not-enuf-time/52382/22 "2001-01-31T15:22:29Z")
Biggirl, I’ll provide you with one of the links: [Vouchers–Uneven Competition?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=56872) And I’ll readily admit that I “personally attacked” DITWD by calling him a liar, because he **is** a liar. See, here’s his M.O. Someone else presents an initial premise – “Bush’s education plan defines clear goals and only applies to schools that fail to meet certain standards” or “Daniel is probably not a racist.” DITWD responds (for reasons known only to him) by presenting a premise that is not only the polar opposite of the initial premise, but that completely defies reason – “Bush’s plan defines ‘failing’ as ‘not making progress’ but doesn’t define ‘progress’” or “He just called me a racist.” When the presenter of the initial premise, or someone else, calls him on it, he goes into defensive mode. He argues for several pages based on his faulty information, misuses cites, quotes selectively from the cites he does use, and resorts to time-honored authorities on, say, genetics like the Oxford English Dictionary. :rolleyes: Eventually, after he battles on like this for several posts, he says, “Waaaaah! You won’t accept my faulty argument! You’re an asshole! You resort to personal attacks! I won’t debate with you anymore!” He is fundamentally dishonest in these debates, he relies on outdated information, he misuses cites, he makes demonstrably false claims about cites, he uses weasel words constantly, and he quotes selectively. He still persists in this disingenuous persecution complex regarding him in particular and Christians in specific at the SDMB. I think Satan got it absolutely right when he called him “Dickheadinthewolvesass.” ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2001, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-many-assholes-not-enuf-time/52382/23 "2001-01-31T15:58:44Z")
Well now… Adventurious82 - I’ll admit to being a bit snide, though not I think overtly nasty, in my replies to your thread. I apologize if I came across as belittling you ( Not sure that I did, but just in case ). Whatever my intentions at the time I was probably a bit unfair since I really wasn’t clear on your intent. But the reason I responded the way I did ( aside from perhaps being a bit irritable lately ) was exactly because I _was_ confused as to your intent. It was by no means clear to me that you weren’t trolling. It seems now, that perhaps you weren’t. However I still stand by my contention that your thesis is fundamentally flawed ( and like Collounsbury and a good many others I’m tired of the race debate which may have added to an exasperated tone ) and completely unsupported by the available facts. I hope you don’t take that bald statement as a personal attack - It’s not intended as such. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2001, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-many-assholes-not-enuf-time/52382/24 "2001-01-31T16:53:00Z")
Phil, in the thread that you linked to, DITWD makes an assertion about what Bush’s plan defines as “failing”. This assertion is quite strongly made, with no sources cited, although it requires one to believe that Bush’s plan defies logic. When asked where this rather incredible claim comes from, he refers to it being somewhere in that day’s SJMercury-News. He provides a quote that does seem to indicate that failure to improve would cause a school to be considered to be failing. Nothing indicates that this is the single exclusive criterion that is used, although, out of context it could be read that way. You then provide a link to the article in question. Since the article really doesn’t seem to indicate that Danniel’s assertion is correct, although a strict reading wouldn’t actually rule out his interpretation. That is, the article does say that a school that fails to improve for three years is failing, and from the context, a rational person would assume that they are referring to the schools that fail to meet certain criteria outlined in the previous sentence. You then call Daniel a liar bacause of this. I maintain that it is entirely possible that he’s just an idiot, and that he really didn’t see the need to link to the article to provide context. He may also firmly believe that the SDMB rules set the “fair use” limit for quotes at about 23 words, rather than about two paragraphs, which is what I seem to recall. Even after you linked to the text of the plan itself, then spelled out exactly how to interpret it logically, that does not mean that he necessarily was able to understand it. So, using Daniel’s own three criteria for him to be considered a liar: 1. I’m sufficiently convinced that his interpretation of Bush’s plan is wrong. 2. I’m also convinced that while the SJMN article does not exactly rule out Daniel’s interpretation, it is at the very least ambiguous on the point, if you ignore the obvious assumptions. 3. However, I contend that it is impossible to know exactly what goes on in Daniel’s mind. He has claimed to have an IQ of 153, so I would be inclined to think that he can understand simple English and logic. But I really can’t say for sure. So, overall, I see no reason that he is provably a liar. Full of shit is probably a more accurate description. And before I have to suffer the ignominy of being ignored by Daniel, I would like to point out that I was not exactly engaging in _ad hominem_ argument here. My point was that Daniel is full of shit. There really is no way to make that point without happening to insult him in the process. For it to have been _ad hominem_, I would have to have fulfilled the following four criteria… ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2001, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-many-assholes-not-enuf-time/52382/25 "2001-01-31T18:09:25Z")
Here is DITWD’s answer to me after I had asked, repeatedly, that he define race and where it was he found all this proof that the negroid race was a scientific classification. [QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Danielinthewolvesden \* \*\* > [@](#): > > As for the term “negriod”- you’re posting here- thus you must have a computer. Why did you not try the 'search function" before shooting your mouth off? I did- and found hundreds of sites that use “negroid” as a scientific term. Here are 2 of them > [http://www.news.bbc.co.uk](http://www.news.bbc.co.uk)./hi/english/sci/tech/newsid\_43000/ 43094.stm > In which the BBC covers a Physical Anthopologist who is comparing skulls- and can & does differentiate them between those with “Mongoloid” (Oriental) and “Negroid”. And > [http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/nov98/910156408.An.r.html](http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/nov98/910156408.An.r.html) > > Where a scientist is asked to differ between muscle tissue in races. He goes on about the different theories of race (and true, does discuss the one which says “races do not exist per se”. However- he also goes on to point out that many scientists are reluctant to answer such questions- as they are afraid of being called racists. Which is exactly what you & DDG did. Thus- even scientists are leery of doing any studies that define or show differences in races- as they are called “racists” by the ignorant. > > \*\* Go ahead and check the links. And I still contend that I never attacked him personally. I disagreed with him, but did not attack him personally. Seeing as how I was accused of it in that thread anyway. I guess I’ll use my chance now. Daniel, you are hardheaded and obstinate. When faced with facts that disagree with your viewpoint, you get all defensive and say people are attacking you. When your statements are proved false you turn around and say “I didn’t say that, exactly.” and start playing semantic games. I can’t believe that you could be so delusional as to think other people would not read the damned threads in question and see what a poor debater you are. I was never “against” you. I disagreed with you. Poor, poor Danielinthewolvesden, nobody understands his genius. ---
**Author:** ![quixotic78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3ab097/32.png) [@quixotic78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quixotic78)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2001, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-many-assholes-not-enuf-time/52382/26 "2001-02-01T01:03:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by waterj2 \* > **So if I don’t play nice, I won’t have the privilege of arguing with Daniel? Well, pardon me for not giving a shit. Also, I don’t think I’ll be taking civility lessons from someone who refers to another poster "using the ‘big lie’ technique of his pal Goebbels."** I think this was the most insightful thing posted in this thread so far. I might add that he has the gall to call GD Moderator **Gaudere** rude on numerous occasions. I’ve not yet hit 100 posts, and even I can see that the patience that woman exhibits (particularly when dealing with **Ditwad** ) is phenomenal. You’ll forgive me if I don’t shed any tears when I’m lumped in the category of the others who don’t care for **Ditwad** because he’s ignorant (yet haughty) at _best_. ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2001, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-many-assholes-not-enuf-time/52382/27 "2001-02-01T01:27:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by waterj2 \* > \*\*So if I don’t play nice, I won’t have the privilege of arguing with Daniel? Well, pardon me for not giving a shit. Also, I don’t think I’ll be taking civility lessons from someone who refers to another poster “using the ‘big lie’ technique of his pal Goebbels.” > > As I see it, this will soon turn into another method for Daniel to score cheap debating points by playing the martyr. “I don’t have to listen to you because you called me a racist.” This is, what, the fourth thread you’ve had wherein you complain about how others debate. I think perhaps you should look in the mirror long and hard before the next one. \*\* Water- i would not refuse to debate with you becuase you called me “full of shit”- or somewhat more nicely -“wrong”. I have been wrong before, and I’ll be wrong again. The above post is why you seem to be not worth the time. Show me I am wrong, please- by example. Biggirl- as I said before- several other folks were using the racist label- you just seemed to be getting WAY over-excited. Was it really nessesary to say “DEFINE RACE!!” whole bunches of times inside one post- before i even can? You have not engaged in “over-the-line” behavior. Others did. No-one was listening to anyone else. Note that i conceded several points- when somebody took the time to explain them without calling me a “racist” (which I am not), or engaging in personal attacks & ad hominem arguements. You can see the example here of several who would rather be an asshole than educate. quix- please examine the title line of this thread. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![quixotic78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3ab097/32.png) [@quixotic78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quixotic78)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2001, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-many-assholes-not-enuf-time/52382/28 "2001-02-01T02:14:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Danielinthewolvesden \* > \*\*quix- please examine the title line of this thread. Thank you. \*\* There’s the love I wanted. Coolness. Quix ---
**Author:** ![RiffRaff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cdc98d/32.png) [@RiffRaff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RiffRaff)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2001, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-many-assholes-not-enuf-time/52382/29 "2001-02-01T22:35:34Z")
Now, I realize my post count is low and all, so maybe there’s things I ain’t learned yet about this Straight Dope board… …but I’m thinkin’… …if the point I wanted to make was that I wasn’t going to talk to people who I think are mean to me (sorry DITWD if I misunderstood but I believe this is the jist of your OP), I might think twice about starting up a Pit Thread announcing that fact. Kinda reminds me of when I was a youngun and my sister would sit there and repeat over and over again “I’m ignoring you, I’m ignoring you, I’m ignoring you, I’m ignoring you, I’m ignoring you, I’m ignoring you, I’m ignoring you, I’m ignoring you (etc.)” But hey, that’s just me - whine on, wolfman. ---
**Author:** ![High\_Plains\_Drifter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9bcb4/32.png) [@High\_Plains\_Drifter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/High_Plains_Drifter)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2001, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-many-assholes-not-enuf-time/52382/30 "2001-02-02T07:33:45Z")
I don’t know what half the people in this thread would do if they didn’t have you to bash. I enjoy reading your threads, though I rarely agree with them. I don’t ned to jump in and call you an asshole, because there’s already no shortage of people waiting for you to say anything in any thread. If it wasn’t for you, half the people here would have no posts. I do think you bring a lot of it on yourself, but I also think a lot of people on here have nothing better in their little lives than to attack anyone they have a chance to. I think I’ll pass on your ‘pledge’, and remain nuetral. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2001, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-many-assholes-not-enuf-time/52382/31 "2001-02-02T11:24:24Z")
> [@](#): > > If it wasn’t for you, half the people here would have no posts. They’d also probably have a lot fewer gray hairs… ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2001, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-many-assholes-not-enuf-time/52382/32 "2001-02-02T14:35:25Z")
**High Plains Drifter** , I just want to point out that it was Danielinthewolvesden who started this thread and it was he who called those who disagree with him assholes. Just setting the record straight. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2001, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-many-assholes-not-enuf-time/52382/33 "2001-02-02T16:44:07Z")
Daniel, Adventurous, et al. Part of the problem, I think, has to do with the nature of race threads. Here’s how it typically goes. Original Poster: I think race X is Y. Bunch of other posters: Race, as an objective concept, doesn’t exist. OP:Sure it does…I know what somebody of race X looks like. BoOP: \ \ OP: Ok, I guess you guys are right. Race doesn’t exist. The next week… New Original Poster: I think race X is Y. After this goes on for a while, the BoOP get frustrated, and I think that’s what’s happened. ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2001, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-many-assholes-not-enuf-time/52382/34 "2001-02-03T01:28:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Captain Amazing \* > > Bunch of other posters: Race, as an objective concept, doesn’t exist. > After this goes on for a while, the BoOP get frustrated, and I think that’s what’s happened. \*\* Actually, i think a better term would be race “as a genetic” concept does not exist. And actually i do understand that, having to repeat myself, here, over & over on certain subjects. So i made allowances. However, again, attacking folk will do just the opposite of what you want. If you DO want to convince folks that "race’ does not exist, you have to explain it to them in a way that they will want to go along with. Namecalling, personal attacks, and the use of too much profanity will only make those you are attacking decide you are an “asshole”, and they will NEVER agree with you, or your thesis. Biggirl- folks often do disagree with me- it is to be expected- i enjoy it, at times. However, personal attacks are used by assholes, which is why i will simply link: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=57835](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=57835) Nor have i said that YOU used personal attacks- altho you did “yell” more than a bit. This thread was not aimed or directed at you, sorry. In any case, with your repeated insistance that I call anyone who simply disagrees with me an "asshole’, you are getting close to that mark yourself. Why are you so angry at me? Because i stopped posting in that thread? ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2001, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-many-assholes-not-enuf-time/52382/35 "2001-02-03T03:38:50Z")
I admit to “yelling”. And you did accuse me of personally attacking you on the recent pit race thread. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Danielinthewolvesden \* > \*\* > > Biggirl- same thing. You want to debate ‘race’ seriously? Then stop with the personal attacks. > > \*\* I’m glad you are not calling me an asshole, though. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2001, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-many-assholes-not-enuf-time/52382/36 "2001-02-03T03:46:10Z")
Um, the thing is, lots of people called DITWD a racist. Wait, “you say/believe racist things.” Is there a difference? Calling someone a racist, or stating that their belief is racist is not helpful. If you think he’s wrong, say so and explain why. “Racist” is one of those words that cannot be used if you hope to continue a civil discussion. If you call someone a racist, you are basically giving someone one last flame before you write them off and give up trying to talk to them. YES, there really are racists out there, YES, some people really do have racist ideas. But think about what your goals are. Are you trying to educate the poster, or flame them? If you are merely flaming, go ahead with the racist charge. If you are trying to educate then an accusation of racism isn’t going to help, even if you feel it is deserved. ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2001, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-many-assholes-not-enuf-time/52382/37 "2001-02-28T05:44:02Z")
I told Randy in the “Creationists: Ignorant or Brainwashed?” thread that I’d write a post here providing links to the other threads in which DITWD’s lies were laid bare. Without further ado: This is the thread in which Gaudere painstakingly analyzes DITWD’s arguments and shows how unreliable (and, in the end, totally dishonest) he is: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=50675](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=50675) Here is a later Pit thread which Fenris wrote in response to DITWD’s accusing him of comparing Creationists to Holocaust deniers. It’s also the thread where DITWD really goes off the deep end with his accusations and insults: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=56215](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=56215) Here’s the thread in which he falsely accused Collounsbury of calling him a “fucking racist”: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=57167&pagenumber=1](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=57167&pagenumber=1) I also found this amusing juxtaposition: In the “Books for Fundies” thread, DITWD described his debate with Gaudere thusly: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Danielinthewolvesden_ > \*\* > I as much “conceded” the current debate to gaudere, as her sites were better than mine. \*\* Seems pretty complimentary, right? After all, he’s saying that he conceded the point, because she presented a better argument than he did. Now, after people pointed to Gaudere’s Pit thread as proof of DITWD’s dishonesty, here’s how he characterized Gaudere’s debating style in Fenris’ thread, cited above: [QUOTE] _Originally posted by Danielinthewolvesden_ \*\*True, Gaudere is so very violently atheist, that anyone making any sort of arguement based on facts that is pro Bible makes her incoherant with rage. [QUOTE] \*\* Gee, DITWD, if _by your own admission_ Gaudere presented better evidence than you did, but you later say that she was “incoherant (sic) with rage,” then what does that say about your argument? That it was worse than incoherent rage? -Ben ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2001, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-many-assholes-not-enuf-time/52382/38 "2001-02-28T05:48:43Z")
Daniel, I took more than my share of blows in the ad-hominem game. Some of them came from, I won’t mention names, I’ll just say that some came from the writer of the OP to this thread. You should take the blows as well. ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2001, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-many-assholes-not-enuf-time/52382/39 "2001-02-28T09:14:56Z")
Cap- thanks bro- but I am running out of cheeks to turn. 😃 Hey, if I answer the above set of “Big Lies” with a link to this thread- does that make this a moebis thread? Consider it done. Gotta go back to just ignoring the pissants. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2001, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-many-assholes-not-enuf-time/52382/40 "2001-02-28T10:47:48Z")
Big lies? Could you point out one small lie even in Ben’s post? Please? I’ve noticed your general response to anything Ben says about you is to refer to the “big lie technique”. I’d just like to see you once back up these accusations. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone agree with that analysis of ben’s posting, so that “big lie” seems to be pretty well accepted, whatever it is. Incidentally, the discussion of whether or not collounsbury called daniel a “fucking racist” and whether or not daniel accused him of it is on page three of the linked thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-many-assholes-not-enuf-time/52382.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-many-assholes-not-enuf-time/52382.md?page=3)