# Too much Palinage. I pit Joe Biden! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 9, 2008, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-much-palinage-i-pit-joe-biden/462790 "2008-09-09T15:54:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-much-palinage-i-pit-joe-biden/462790/21 "2008-09-09T20:16:51Z")
I disagree with almost all his positions. He’s a jerk. At least he is straightforward. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-much-palinage-i-pit-joe-biden/462790/22 "2008-09-09T20:53:41Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > On the other hand, Biden is no Kinnock, really. Kinnock was infamous for celebrating a Labour election win a few days before the actual election, which Labour ended up, erm, not winning. The odd thing is that it wasn’t even a good speech. Kinnock was asking why he was the first in his family to go to university, and was that because his ancestors were stupid? To which the obvious answer was, no, it’s because his ancestors were _Welsh_. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-much-palinage-i-pit-joe-biden/462790/23 "2008-09-09T20:55:19Z")
The charge that he “plagiarized” from Kinnock is pretty much bullshit. He customarily quoted a few lines from Kinnock in his speeches and always, with one exception, gave attribution. He gave the speech dozens of times with proper attribution. On one occasion he forgot to give the cite and he got jumped on. ---
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-much-palinage-i-pit-joe-biden/462790/24 "2008-09-09T21:12:59Z")
As a Delawarean who had the privilege of being Biden’s constituent, he is not boring. He handles wonkish foreign-policy stuff with a diplomat’s skill… and then turns around and says the most god-awful foot-in-mouth undiplomatic stuff I have ever heard, when he knows the tape is rolling. If he were on the US Embassy staff in a foreign country, and I were in that country’s intelligence service, I’d mark him down as “Spy pretending to be incompetent” and have him followed. He’s laying low because every time he opens his mouth there’s a chance he’ll find a size 12 penny loafer in there. He’s biding his time, waiting for Sarah to make the first gaffe, and following orders. He’s also studying about three moves ahead for the debates – lining up clever sound-bitey answers that make the GOP sound-bites on Georgia and Afghanistan and Iraq sound trifling, shallow, and misinformed. The VP debate will not be boring. ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-much-palinage-i-pit-joe-biden/462790/25 "2008-09-09T21:33:42Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The odd thing is that it wasn’t even a good speech. Kinnock was asking why he was the first in his family to go to university, and was that because his ancestors were stupid? > > To which the obvious answer was, no, it’s because his ancestors were _Welsh_. Fuck you. ---
**Author:** ![fortytwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f9ae1b/32.png) [@fortytwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fortytwo)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-much-palinage-i-pit-joe-biden/462790/26 "2008-09-09T21:55:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The odd thing is that it wasn’t even a good speech. Kinnock was asking why he was the first in his family to go to university, and was that because his ancestors were stupid? > > To which the obvious answer was, no, it’s because his ancestors were _Welsh_. You’re an ignorant racist cunt. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-much-palinage-i-pit-joe-biden/462790/27 "2008-09-09T22:06:51Z")
> [@rayh](#): > > Fuck you. > [@Vetch](#): > > You’re an ignorant racist cunt. I wouldn’t use language as strong as that, but I do wonder what being Welsh had to do with it. If Neil Kinnock had been born into a similar mining family in England or Scotland, he’d have been equally likely to have been the first in his family to go to university. ---
**Author:** ![A\_shameful\_cracka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@A\_shameful\_cracka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_shameful_cracka)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-much-palinage-i-pit-joe-biden/462790/28 "2008-09-09T22:13:59Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > I wouldn’t use language as strong as that, but I do wonder what being Welsh had to do with it. If Neil Kinnock had been born into a similar mining family in England or Scotland, he’d have been equally likely to have been the first in his family to go to university. I hear Scots are actually pretty smart. At least, compared to the Welsh. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-much-palinage-i-pit-joe-biden/462790/29 "2008-09-09T22:15:55Z")
> [@A\_shameful\_cracka](#): > > I hear Scots are actually pretty smart. At least, compared to the Welsh. But how many Scottish coal miners had university degrees 60 or 70 years ago? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-much-palinage-i-pit-joe-biden/462790/30 "2008-09-09T22:19:13Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The charge that he “plagiarized” from Kinnock is pretty much bullshit. He customarily quoted a few lines from Kinnock in his speeches and always, with one exception, gave attribution. He gave the speech dozens of times with proper attribution. On one occasion he forgot to give the cite and he got jumped on. Came in to mention this. His usual attribution was very well documented at the time; on political scandals this isn’t even a “1”. (Biden later had a book of his own speeches bound in leather and gilded leafed pages and gave it to Kinnock when they met with a “thought you might could use this” quip.) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-much-palinage-i-pit-joe-biden/462790/31 "2008-09-09T22:37:44Z")
[QUOTE=rayh] Fuck you. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Vetch] You’re an ignorant racist cunt. [/QUOTE] Whoops. I’m not implying that Kinnock was stupid because he was Welsh. I’m merely pointing out that there were hardly any universities in Wales when Kinnock was a collegian, and even fewer before that. (12 today, but just 6 until 1949). It would probably have been more appropriate to say “because he’s from Wales” than “because he’s Welsh.” Anyway, it made no sense for Biden to appropriate that line, because Delaware is as well- or better-educated than nearly all the other states. For the record, I have nothing against the Welsh, and had a poster of Neil Jenkins on my wall until my brother tore it down when I was about 11. > [@Giles](#): > > I wouldn’t use language as strong as that, but I do wonder what being Welsh had to do with it. Kinnock is Welsh, not a Scotsman. I could just as easily have said Scottish or Northern Irish or from the West Country, but he isn’t from any of those places. ---
**Author:** ![ManiacMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b782af/32.png) [@ManiacMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManiacMan)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-much-palinage-i-pit-joe-biden/462790/32 "2008-09-09T22:44:43Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > He’d be chilling at the Naval Observatory, dumbass. And I’d rather have him there where he can’t do any harm than doing the damage he’s doing in the Senate. What sort of damage? Like he plugged the toilet or something? ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-much-palinage-i-pit-joe-biden/462790/33 "2008-09-09T22:45:47Z")
[Welsh National Dish](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTajqoSZvM8) (YouTube) [Aneurin Bevan](http://www.100welshheroes.com/en/biography/aneurinbevan) [Dylan Thomas](http://www.100welshheroes.com/en/biography/dylanthomas) [David Lloyd George](http://www.100welshheroes.com/en/biography/davidlloydgeorge) [Robert Owen](http://www.100welshheroes.com/en/biography/robertowen) [Bertrand Russell](http://www.100welshheroes.com/en/biography/bertrandrussell) [Alfred Russell Wallace](http://www.100welshheroes.com/en/biography/alfredrussellwallace) [Roald Dahl](http://www.100welshheroes.com/en/biography/roalddahl) [Professor Steve Jones](http://www.100welshheroes.com/en/biography/professorstevejones) [Professor Brian Josephson](http://www.100welshheroes.com/en/biography/professorbrianjosephson) [T E Lawrence](http://www.100welshheroes.com/en/biography/telawrence) Need I say more? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-much-palinage-i-pit-joe-biden/462790/34 "2008-09-09T22:53:38Z")
> [@rayh](#): > > Need I say more? See above. ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-much-palinage-i-pit-joe-biden/462790/35 "2008-09-09T22:57:11Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > See above. Look, it took me a long time to do that, I’m not going to waste it because you clarified your postion. You must think I’m dumb or something. Just because I went to a Welsh University. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-much-palinage-i-pit-joe-biden/462790/36 "2008-09-09T23:01:06Z")
> [@rayh](#): > > Look, it took me a long time to do that, I’m not going to waste it because you clarified your postion. You must think I’m dumb or something. Just because I went to a Welsh University. That’s the thing. At a _proper_ university you would have learned to just link to the bloody “100 Welsh Heroes” site directly, and let your readers pick their own examples of Welshy goodness. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-much-palinage-i-pit-joe-biden/462790/37 "2008-09-09T23:02:03Z")
> [@rayh](#): > > Need I say more? What, no Tom Jones? ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-much-palinage-i-pit-joe-biden/462790/38 "2008-09-09T23:15:52Z")
Geez, the Welsh are touchy. Must be 'cause they’re Welsh rarebit! (see, “bit” like attacked or bitten and “rare” because it doesn’t happen often and, well, erm…) (ok, but I’m laughing.) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-much-palinage-i-pit-joe-biden/462790/39 "2008-09-09T23:18:47Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > What, no Tom Jones? I was emphasising intellectual achievements. He is #3 on the list of 100 Welsh heroes. > [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > That’s the thing. At a proper university you would have learned to just link to the bloody “100 Welsh Heroes” site directly, and let your readers pick their own examples of Welshy goodness. I did Maths, not Quoting for Dummies. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-much-palinage-i-pit-joe-biden/462790/40 "2008-09-09T23:29:00Z")
This campaign is all about marketing, and image. If you want to see how drastically marketing has changed over the decades, becoming less about substance and more about image - flashy, slick, x-treme image - compare these two ads from Honda, from 1978 and from 2008. [1978 Accord](http://www.adclassix.com/images/78honda_accordhatchback.jpg) [2008 Scion](http://reviews.carreview.com/files/2007/08/scionxbugly.jpg) The first one is a small, modest picture of the car, and then a very long and detailed explanation of its various features. It’s informative, helpful, and convincing - but it’s not XTREME. The second one? It’s IN YOUR FACE, super-KEWL and AWESOME! It even contains hip irony, which is always x-treem. It doesn’t tell you jackshit about the actual fucking car, but whatever, right? As long as it’s cool, that’s what sells. This mentality has carried over into everything. People still scratch their heads over McCain picking Palin and not Romney - it baffles me. Romney is totally, utterly uninteresting. It doesn’t matter that he’s more qualified to be VP. He’s boooooooooooring. Sarah Palin may have lots of problems but she’s different from the average politician, and that’s why McCain picked her. Because she’s x-treme. Biden isn’t x-treme. He’s a boring old white guy. But that’s ok - because Obama is the one that’s x-treme. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-much-palinage-i-pit-joe-biden/462790.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/too-much-palinage-i-pit-joe-biden/462790.md?page=3)