# Toothpaste - fluoride, whitening
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toothpaste-fluoride-whitening/310674
**Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports
**Created:** [July 1, 2005, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toothpaste-fluoride-whitening/310674 "2005-07-01T13:09:33Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@LouWebGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouWebGuy)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2005, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toothpaste-fluoride-whitening/310674/1 "2005-07-01T13:09:33Z")
Interesting article ([http://www.straightdope.com/columns/050701.html](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/050701.html)) on toothpaste, but I’m surprised that manufacturers don’t goose the fluoride level and market that distinction.
Unsolicited testimonial for one whitening toothpaste that actually works (and I’ve tried many): Crest Vivid White. Noticed a difference within 10 days, and I’m a pretty heavy user of colas, coffee, and red wine. Fairly inexpensive, and it comes in two flavors, Refreshing and Invigorating; one is supposed to also freshen your breath. I can’t remember which does which, but I prefer the taste of “Refreshing.” Worth a try if you can’t abide whitening strips.
😃
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### Author:  [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2005, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toothpaste-fluoride-whitening/310674/2 "2005-07-01T13:46:44Z")
I recently purchased a used 1950 book of Consumer Reports. They talk about flouride:“satisfactory when used by a dentist, but it has no place in a dentifrice.”
How times have changed!
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### Author:  [@iduffield\_satx.rr.com](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iduffield_satx.rr.com)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2005, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toothpaste-fluoride-whitening/310674/3 "2005-07-01T15:16:29Z")
I think one of the best toothpastes is Biotene. It does not whiten, I am afraid but it is very good if you have trouble with dry mouth from to much medication as I have. ☹ It has fluoride & calcium in it. Dentist recommended. 🙂
Take care, Irene
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### Author:  [@chooch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chooch)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2005, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toothpaste-fluoride-whitening/310674/4 "2005-07-01T22:42:09Z")
Cecil, I was surprised at your answer about toothpaste and flouride-- and triclosan!
A little research will show you that flouride was first researched as a water additive by the Nazis, finding that it causes the populace that drinks it to become more docile and pliable to leading.
The flouride used in our water and toothpaste is is actually waste by product from factories, who found a great way to dispose of their refuse and get paid at the same time. There is no requirements on quality or purity(oxymoron) of the flouride. Flouride is also an ingredient in pesticides. Note the instructions on toothpaste tell you to never swallow the stuff, and to thoroughly rinse out the mouth, and to not let kids use it until a certain age. Wonder why if it’s so great?
Also, actual studies have shown that communities without flouride have stronger teeth and fewer cavities. The studies that the industries funded to show otherwise studied children in flouridated coummunities that regularly brushed, and compared them against children in non flouridated communities that did not brush their teeth regularly. A perfect example of rigged studies which big pharma and others do all the time. Many European communities have banned flouride.
As for triclosan, even the mainstream news just reported that when the chlorine in water comes in contact with triclosan, a vapor is given off that is extremely carcenogenic to the lungs and respiratory system. It is supposed to be removed from all products.
Must have been in a hurry on this one, Cecil!!
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### Author:  [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2005, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toothpaste-fluoride-whitening/310674/5 "2005-07-01T23:15:47Z")
If you’re going to attack Cecil’s competence and/or honesty, paranoid conspiracy theories and vague, undocumented generalizations don’t cut the mustard.
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### Author:  [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2005, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toothpaste-fluoride-whitening/310674/6 "2005-07-01T23:25:13Z")
> [@chooch](#):
>
> As for triclosan, even the mainstream news just reported that when the chlorine in water comes in contact with triclosan, a vapor is given off that is extremely carcenogenic to the lungs and respiratory system. It is supposed to be removed from all products.
>
> Must have been in a hurry on this one, Cecil!!
Let’s just try one at a time. Can you cite the mainstream news report of this. Any?
Who ordered the removal from all products?
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### Author:  [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2005, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toothpaste-fluoride-whitening/310674/7 "2005-07-01T23:29:44Z")
I’ll help you out.
> [@](#):
>
> The study’s lead author agrees.
>
> “Our work never examined toothpaste,” says Peter Vikesland, Ph.D., of Virginia Polytechnic and State University. “We did a laboratory study predominantly with pure triclosan and chlorinated water, and some work with triclosan-containing dishwashing soaps.”
>
> Dr. Vikesland notes, “It’s highly premature to conclude that there is a direct relationship between triclosan-containing toothpaste and our laboratory studies of triclosan and triclosan-containing dish soaps.”
From [http://www.ada.org/prof/resources/pubs/adanews/adanewsarticle.asp?articleid=1375](http://www.ada.org/prof/resources/pubs/adanews/adanewsarticle.asp?articleid=1375)
So that one’s shot down.
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### Author:  [@chooch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chooch)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2005, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toothpaste-fluoride-whitening/310674/8 "2005-07-01T23:37:57Z")
> [@John W. Kennedy](#):
>
> If you’re going to attack Cecil’s competence and/or honesty, paranoid conspiracy theories and vague, undocumented generalizations don’t cut the mustard.
First of all, I’m not attacking Cecil. Is it against the rules here to have a disagreement? Or all we all suppose to swoon together into a pile of human jello? Cecil does great work, but he can be wrong, just like you can be wrong, and I can be wrong.
And what doesn’t cut the mustard is ad hominem attacks, throwing around the “conspiracy” word, which conspirators have seen to has been infused with negative connotations. As for documention, perhaps you have a brain and google on your computer. There’s plenty of it out there, just like there’s plenty of documentation on the harm of thimerasol in vaccines that the media won’t report because they get billions of advertising dollars from big pharma.
That’s how this world works, unless you live your life in front of the TV, the finishing touch to numbing the population’s minds.
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### Author:  [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2005, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toothpaste-fluoride-whitening/310674/9 "2005-07-01T23:39:49Z")
> [@chooch](#):
>
> Many European communities have banned flouride.
> [@](#):
>
> No country in Europe has banned community water fluoridation.
>
> Fact.
> The claim that fluoridation is banned in Europe is frequently used by fluoridation opponents. In truth, European countries construct their own water quality regulations within the framework of the 1980 European Water Quality Directive. The Directive provides maximum admissible concentrations for many substances, one of which is fluoride. The Directive does not require or prohibit fluoridation, it merely requires that the fluoride concentration in water does not exceed the maximum permissible concentration.228
From [http://www.ada.org/public/topics/fluoride/facts/policy.asp](http://www.ada.org/public/topics/fluoride/facts/policy.asp)
So, all you have to do is name the countries that have banned flouride, and give a cite.
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### Author:  [@chooch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chooch)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toothpaste-fluoride-whitening/310674/10 "2005-07-02T00:01:55Z")
> [@samclem](#):
>
> I’ll help you out.
>
> From [http://www.ada.org/prof/resources/pubs/adanews/adanewsarticle.asp?articleid=1375](http://www.ada.org/prof/resources/pubs/adanews/adanewsarticle.asp?articleid=1375)
>
> So that one’s shot down.
Shot down where? So triclosan is different in toothpaste than it is in soap or the lab? Sorry, triclosan is triclosan.
Here’s a link about how it is creating superbugs.
[http://antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/senese/101/consumer/faq/triclosan.shtml](http://antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/senese/101/consumer/faq/triclosan.shtml)
Here’s another. EPA rates triclosan as a pesticide, just like flouride.
[http://www.health-report.co.uk/triclosan.html](http://www.health-report.co.uk/triclosan.html)
American Chemical Society.
[http://www.rense.com/general64/anti.htm](http://www.rense.com/general64/anti.htm)
UK Enviromental Agency, and mention of several companies voluntarily removing it from their products.
[http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/business/444304/444362/368813/379069/876853/?lang=\_e](http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/business/444304/444362/368813/379069/876853/?lang=_e)
I could go on, but either you will be open to learning or not. Of course, it’s just impossible that something like this could cause a health problem. People are more healthy than ever, you hardly hear of cancer anymore, etc.
I work in healthcare, and I can tell you there has never been such an explosion of auto-immune diseases, cancer and everything else, as in the last decade. And AI diseases cover a huge spectrum of health problems. Something has chanaged in our world to be causing these things, and it’s time we quit labeling every ligitimate question as conspiracy ideas.
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### Author:  [@chooch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chooch)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toothpaste-fluoride-whitening/310674/11 "2005-07-02T00:06:54Z")
> [@samclem](#):
>
> From [http://www.ada.org/public/topics/fluoride/facts/policy.asp](http://www.ada.org/public/topics/fluoride/facts/policy.asp)
>
> So, all you have to do is name the countries that have banned flouride, and give a cite.
Here you go.
[http://www.fluoridation.com/c-country.htm](http://www.fluoridation.com/c-country.htm)
A good researcher looks at who funds or conducts studies and reports. The ADA will blantantly lie about fluoride and mercury. They will say there are no studies showing against it, despite being given a reference list of a thousand.
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### Author:  [@seekerone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seekerone)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toothpaste-fluoride-whitening/310674/12 "2005-07-02T18:35:23Z")
I’m new to the message board and joined to chime in on this topic. I, too, am a healthcare practitioner (holistic, alternative) and am always appalled at the health issues that seem to be directly related to the chemicals that are in our food and water supply. Many of my teachers over the years have warned of the dangers of fluoride, including info about the history of the use of fluoride in Nazi concentration camps. The link below has more info to debunk the fluoride fantasies of “modern science.”
[http://www.trunkerton.fsnet.co.uk/fluoride\_fantasies.htm](http://www.trunkerton.fsnet.co.uk/fluoride_fantasies.htm)
A brief google search turned up these interesting comments on the history of fluoride use. The links below are all from one site, and there are many more links to explore if you choose to do the research.
[http://64.177.90.157/pfpc/html/history\_notes.html](http://64.177.90.157/pfpc/html/history_notes.html)
[http://64.177.90.157/pfpc/html/toxicity.html](http://64.177.90.157/pfpc/html/toxicity.html)
[http://64.177.90.157/pfpc/html/toothpaste\_magic.html](http://64.177.90.157/pfpc/html/toothpaste_magic.html)
In my brief search I didn’t find the details of the original “crest tests” but if memory serves me (and it doesn’t always!), the children were asked to brush for 5 minutes or so at least twice a day. Yet I don’t recall a control group who brushed without the toothpaste to see if, indeed, the brushing itself was the cause for any noted improvement.
As pointed out by another post, we are not exactly becoming healthier by leaps and bounds due to our consumption of chemicals masquerading as food, water and various “healthcare” products. If we were, this conversation would most likely not even be taking place.
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### Author:  [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toothpaste-fluoride-whitening/310674/13 "2005-07-02T19:42:00Z")
If you can only cite websites generated in your own inbred, paranoid little world, we’re not interested. I can show you websites for any lunatic belief you can name.
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### Author:  [@chooch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chooch)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toothpaste-fluoride-whitening/310674/14 "2005-07-02T19:52:12Z")
> [@John W. Kennedy](#):
>
> If you can only cite websites generated in your own inbred, paranoid little world, we’re not interested. I can show you websites for any lunatic belief you can name.
You’re an unhappy little squirt, aren’t you? I gave a sample website of top quality sourcing, as an example. You take your little fingers and guide them to your keyboard and spell out appropriate words on google, and do your own research. I’ve done mine for years, which I doubt you can say.
Speaking of inbred, your types are the ones that can only use ad hominem attacks on someone they disagree with. Your paranoia is fueled by your fear that maybe everything isn’t quite as hunky dory as you wish it was, but you don’t want to be bothered to know it because you need to watch another episode of american idol, or loony tunes, without worrying about anything more than being sure you bought enough beer to last through your next binge.
Now get out there and fight the new world order.
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### Author:  [@wellington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wellington)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toothpaste-fluoride-whitening/310674/15 "2005-07-02T21:03:11Z")
50lb bags of Flouride when dropped at ten feet on test subjects in lab reports resulte din death of most subject.
That proves it for me… Hated brushing anyway
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### Author:  [@chooch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chooch)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toothpaste-fluoride-whitening/310674/16 "2005-07-02T21:06:59Z")
> [@wellington](#):
>
> 50lb bags of Flouride when dropped at ten feet on test subjects in lab reports resulte din death of most subject.
>
> That proves it for me… Hated brushing anyway
Gee, I guess I made a mistake when I joined this forum thinking that readers of Cecil’s columns would be the type of people who are intellegent and do diligent research on subjects.
I guess that just not true. From the brilliant posts I’ve read on this subject, I would guess most of you subscribe to Cecil because you’re lazy and want someone to feed you information that you’re comfortable with.
Now off you go. Get another beer, a bag of chips and put that remote to work!
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### Author:  [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toothpaste-fluoride-whitening/310674/17 "2005-07-02T21:31:25Z")
> [@chooch](#):
>
> You’re an unhappy little squirt, aren’t you? I gave a sample website of top quality sourcing, as an example.
You’ve provided nothing but the usual “Believe it because I say so”, handwaving, and paranoia.
> [@chooch](#):
>
> You take your little fingers and guide them to your keyboard and spell out appropriate words on google, and do your own research. I’ve done mine for years, which I doubt you can say.
I’ve done enough research over the years to recognize bullshit when I see it, and enough to know that (as I’ve already pointed out) every known lunatic belief can be found somewhere on the web, from Einstein denial to Holocaust denial to Shakespeare denial.
> [@chooch](#):
>
> Speaking of inbred, your types are the ones that can only use ad hominem attacks on someone they disagree with.
You’re the one making _ad-hominem_ attacks. I’m just pointing out that you haven’t produced an argument yet.
> [@chooch](#):
>
> Your paranoia
You’re the one alleging a vast conspiracy.
> [@chooch](#):
>
> is fueled by your fear that maybe everything isn’t quite as hunky dory as you wish it was, but you don’t want to be bothered to know it because you need to watch another episode of american idol, or loony tunes, without worrying about anything more than being sure you bought enough beer to last through your next binge.
Tell us about what a drunkard Caesar is, do!
> [@chooch](#):
>
> Now get out there and fight the new world order.
Oh, if you’re going to hand me straight lines like that…
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### Author:  [@chooch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chooch)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toothpaste-fluoride-whitening/310674/18 "2005-07-02T21:35:10Z")
> [@John W. Kennedy](#):
>
> You’ve provided nothing but the usual “Believe it because I say so”, handwaving, and paranoia.I’ve done enough research over the years to recognize bullshit when I see it, and enough to know that (as I’ve already pointed out) every known lunatic belief can be found somewhere on the web, from Einstein denial to Holocaust denial to Shakespeare denial.You’re the one making _ad-hominem_ attacks. I’m just pointing out that you haven’t produced an argument yet.You’re the one alleging a vast conspiracy.Tell us about what a drunkard Caesar is, do!
>
> Oh, if you’re going to hand me straight lines like that…
Johnny’s brilliant because he says so-- so there. Now, off you go.
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### Author:  [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toothpaste-fluoride-whitening/310674/19 "2005-07-02T22:35:26Z")
Moderator steps in and blows whistle, very loud: TWWEEEEEETT!!!
Personal attacks are not permitted in this forum. **John** , you need to find better ways to express yourself. And, **cooch** , when faced with a personal insult, please do not respond in kind but hit the REPORT button so that a Moderator can intervene.
We can have quiet, polite, and serious discussions in this forum, even when people profoundly disagree. And even when one side is paranoid lunatic, and the other side is adamant and inflexible. Discussion is not necessarily going to convince the other side – in fact, it probably won’t – but it can provide points of interest anyhow.
Now, play nice.
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### Author:  [@chooch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chooch)
#### Post date: [July 2, 2005, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toothpaste-fluoride-whitening/310674/20 "2005-07-02T23:54:14Z")
> [@C K Dexter Haven](#):
>
> Moderator steps in and blows whistle, very loud: TWWEEEEEETT!!!
>
> Personal attacks are not permitted in this forum. **John** , you need to find better ways to express yourself. And, **cooch** , when faced with a personal insult, please do not respond in kind but hit the REPORT button so that a Moderator can intervene.
>
> We can have quiet, polite, and serious discussions in this forum, even when people profoundly disagree. And even when one side is paranoid lunatic, and the other side is adamant and inflexible. Discussion is not necessarily going to convince the other side – in fact, it probably won’t – but it can provide points of interest anyhow.
>
> Now, play nice.
Thanks, I agree wholeheartedly. I certainly expected more intellegent discourse when I submitted to this forum. Sorry I devolved into the brainless exchanges!
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