# Top 5 U.S allies? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 10, 2009, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-5-u-s-allies/505890 "2009-08-10T00:26:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-5-u-s-allies/505890/21 "2009-08-10T07:59:44Z")
I just don’t see France and Germany. Yes, they are more powerful than Australia but they’re also a whole hell of a lot more uppity and opinionated than Australia. If push comes to shove I would count on Australia to step to the plate for us more than I would count on France and Germany. I definitely think that Israel is far higher on that list than France or Germany, regardless of how you count NATO. And I stand by Pakistan being a closer ally than France or Germany. We’ve had a lot more joint military operations with Pakistan in the past thirty years than either France or Germany. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-5-u-s-allies/505890/22 "2009-08-10T08:47:05Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > And keep that Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc supply going, too, please! That’s good stuff, isn’t it! ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-5-u-s-allies/505890/23 "2009-08-10T15:03:36Z")
1. Britian 2. Israel 3. Canada 4. Australia 5. Taiwan ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-5-u-s-allies/505890/24 "2009-08-10T15:59:24Z")
Britain, Canada and Australia are probably the leading allies of the US. After that it gets hard. Any NATO country is an ally but it’s hard to single out any two in terms of closeness; perhaps Germany and France because of their size and power. Japan also deserves mention though its history and constitution limit its usefulness as a military ally. ``` IMO countries like Israel and Taiwan are clients rather than allies and don't contribute significantly to US power. ``` ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-5-u-s-allies/505890/25 "2009-08-10T16:08:25Z")
Without starting Iraq War debate #4million, we just can’t trust France or Germany to be there when we need them. Yes, I know, we made a mistake going into Iraq, but you are supposed to stand by your friends. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-5-u-s-allies/505890/26 "2009-08-10T16:12:42Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Without starting Iraq War debate #4million, we just can’t trust France or Germany to be there when we need them. > > Yes, I know, we made a mistake going into Iraq, but you are supposed to stand by your friends. Canada didn’t go into Iraq either. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-5-u-s-allies/505890/27 "2009-08-10T16:22:35Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Canada didn’t go into Iraq either. No, but we once got [some of you out of Iran](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_caper). ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-5-u-s-allies/505890/28 "2009-08-10T16:37:21Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Canada didn’t go into Iraq either. True. But IIRC, wasn’t it more a matter of their military being so small instead of an overwhelming objection like France and Germany had? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-5-u-s-allies/505890/29 "2009-08-10T16:57:10Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > True. But IIRC, wasn’t it more a matter of their military being so small instead of an overwhelming objection like France and Germany had? No. Chretien opposed the Iraq invasion on principle, based on his party’s playform to oppose (or at least not participate in) any military adventure that did not have UN support. Thus, he sent troops to Afghanistan but not Iraq, although Canadian troops on secondment/exchange to the US and UK armed forces did serve there, and Canadian naval vessels patrolled the Gulf effectively in support of the invasion and occupation. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-5-u-s-allies/505890/30 "2009-08-10T17:47:29Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No. Chretien opposed the Iraq invasion on principle, based on his party’s playform to oppose (or at least not participate in) any military adventure that did not have UN support. > > Thus, he sent troops to Afghanistan but not Iraq, although Canadian troops on secondment/exchange to the US and UK armed forces did serve there, and Canadian naval vessels patrolled the Gulf effectively in support of the invasion and occupation. Fair point. Canada just didn’t seem as uppity about it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-5-u-s-allies/505890/31 "2009-08-10T19:23:36Z")
> [@movingfinger](#): > > 1. Great Britain > 2. Australia > …and that’s about it, as far as I am concerned. Israel, Taiwan and South Korea are just client states who know which side of their bread is buttered. > > I guess you could add The Philippines as number three, but that’s stretching it a bit. Why not Canada? I didn’t know that the U.S had a close relationship with Australia. Though I heard some natterings of them warning the U.S of an attack on Pearl Harbor. Sorry, can’t find the cite. Now, I’m curious. I know Congress ratifies treaties, but which body, the Executive or Legislature, forges “alliances” between the U.S and other countries? And just for fun: What do you guys think would occur if Mexico was annexed by Venezuala? ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-5-u-s-allies/505890/32 "2009-08-10T19:58:03Z")
Do you take ally to mean “we will kiss your behind and send you token amounts of troops because we are a bunch of brown noses and/or its in our best interests to become a brown nose”? Ally in the you lend us credibility sense? 1. Australia 2. Britain 3. Canada 4. Poland Do you take ally to mean “we have achieved extreme integration between our fighting forces, so much so that we can interoperate and defend one another if need be”? Ally in the truest sense of the word? 1. Canada 2. Britain 3. NATO, as separate from Britain and Canada 4. Australia Do you take Ally to mean “The US has serious geopolitical interests in protecting you, so much so that if you were attacked and we weren’t threatened, we would absolutely come to your defense” ? Ally in the realpolitik sense? 1. Israel 2. South Korea 3. Taiwan 4. NATO (all of them) The moral of the story is that “Ally” is a term like “Lady Friend”: it can mean a lot of things, depending on how you want to use it ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-5-u-s-allies/505890/33 "2009-08-10T20:22:41Z")
While I would grant that we are Israel’s closest ally, I don’t know that they return the favor as well. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-5-u-s-allies/505890/34 "2009-08-10T20:28:15Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Without starting Iraq War debate #4million, we just can’t trust France or Germany to be there when we need them. > > Yes, I know, we made a mistake going into Iraq, but you are supposed to stand by your friends. So when your friend jumps off the bridge, you have to follow him? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-5-u-s-allies/505890/35 "2009-08-10T20:30:14Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > While I would grant that we are Israel’s closest ally, I don’t know that they return the favor as well. Well of course not; now that the cold war is over there is no “need” for the US to have allies - our military is plenty strong to defend us and all of our foreign military outposts What we do need, however, are geopolitical allies through whom we can exert influence and pressure. Israel fits this bill quite well for the middle east region. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-5-u-s-allies/505890/36 "2009-08-10T23:18:24Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > Britain, Canada and Australia are probably the leading allies of the US. After that it gets hard. Any NATO country is an ally but it’s hard to single out any two in terms of closeness; perhaps Germany and France because of their size and power. Japan also deserves mention though its history and constitution limit its usefulness as a military ally. > > ``` > IMO countries like Israel and Taiwan are clients rather than allies and don't contribute significantly to US power. > > ``` You mean, all the computer parts built in Taiwan and all of the Mid-East Intel we get from the Mossad do not contribute to US power? Umm…just…no. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-5-u-s-allies/505890/37 "2009-08-10T23:21:19Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > Well of course not; now that the cold war is over there is no “need” for the US to have allies - our military is plenty strong to defend us and all of our foreign military outposts We wouldn’t have any foreign military outposts of note if we didn’t have allies. The US does not, as a general rule, have overseas possessions, remember? ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2009, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-5-u-s-allies/505890/38 "2009-08-10T23:42:49Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > So when your friend jumps off the bridge, you have to follow him? 😕 Well, in fairness to W, he did make a [helluva pitch](http://wonkette.com/410345/george-w-bush-asked-jacques-chirac-to-invade-iraq-with-him-because-of-biblical-alien-space-monsters). ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-5-u-s-allies/505890/39 "2009-08-11T00:34:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > We wouldn’t have any foreign military outposts of note if we didn’t have allies. The US does not, as a general rule, have overseas possessions, remember? Cuba. A real good ally. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-5-u-s-allies/505890/40 "2009-08-11T01:02:55Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > So long as NZ keeps the Steinlager supply flowing, you have my unwavering support!!! I’d be happy if we exported all the Steinlager. 🙂 (Nah, it’s OK but I’d rather drink Monteith’s or Mac’s). > [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > And keep that Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc supply going, too, please! Good reasons for have NZ and Oz as friends: NZ for the white wine and Oz for the red. 🙂 > [@jtgain](#): > > Yes, I know, we made a mistake going into Iraq, but you are supposed to stand by your friends. Wow. Others have already responded but… no. If your friend gets attacked, yep, I’m completely with you on standing with them. If they want to start a brawl then I’d think that as a good friend you should try to talk them out of it or drag them away. What’s the rest of that quote about “my country right or wrong”… oh yeah: “if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-5-u-s-allies/505890.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-5-u-s-allies/505890.md?page=3)