# Top Chef: 1/24 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 25, 2007, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-chef-1-24/389371 "2007-01-25T04:24:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-chef-1-24/389371/21 "2007-01-25T15:45:59Z")
Marcel was never the worst cook. There was never a week that he deserved to be kicked off. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-chef-1-24/389371/22 "2007-01-25T15:48:24Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] If there was a reason they hated Marcel, they never showed it to us on the show. [/QUOTE] […raising hand…] They showed it to me! 🙂 I’ve gone on at length about his passive-aggressive sabotage and his tuning out of the rest of his teams, so I won’t bother raising that again. But I gotta say that some people are carrying it a bit too far, like the woman who [smashed his face](http://www.film.com/story/theknivesaredrawnmarcelfromtopchefattacked/13237246?listid=11597475&genre=tv) with a beer bottle in Las Vegas once she verified that he was indeed Marcel. That’s even worse than what Cliff did, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-chef-1-24/389371/23 "2007-01-25T15:50:32Z")
Marcel was also the one who kept shrugging off all the harrassment he got and kept trying to make it about the cooking. It was the Mean Girls group who kept trying to make it personal. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-chef-1-24/389371/24 "2007-01-25T15:56:34Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] […raising hand…] They showed it to me! 🙂 I’ve gone on at length about his passive-aggressive sabotage and his tuning out of the rest of his teams, so I won’t bother raising that again. [/quote] I never saw anything I felt was intentional sabotage. I did see a tendancy towards tunnel vision and lack of awareness about the others but I never thought it was malicious, just that he tended to be oblivious when he was locked in on a task. > [@](#): > > But I gotta say that some people are carrying it a bit too far, like the woman who [smashed his face](http://www.film.com/story/theknivesaredrawnmarcelfromtopchefattacked/13237246?listid=11597475&genre=tv) with a beer bottle in Las Vegas once she verified that he was indeed Marcel. That’s even worse than what Cliff did, in my opinion. I saw that. That’s insane. He did say that the response he’s gotten from the public has been overwhelmingly positive aside from that one incident, though. He also said that Ilan has been calling him and leaving him voice mails every day since the finale but that he hasn’t returned them. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-chef-1-24/389371/25 "2007-01-25T16:00:11Z")
You know, thereis a fundamental problem in the show, in that in a kitchen all the chefs work as a team. However, on the show, of course, they are not working as a team, they are working against each other n many ways. Hence, Ilan has no qualms about using all of the burners without regard to how it will effect the next dish. Hence, Marcel’s loner attitude can come off as being pompous and rude. The bottom line is that this is a cooking competition, not a personality contest. Hell’s Kitchen is closer to a competition where the cooking and the ability to command and inspire your team are at stake (although the cooking on that show is far inferior). I still think Ilan is an ass, especially this week when he instiagted the whole dram at the Judge’s table but then basically let Elia take the fall (not that it had any effect). Elia was clearly the bottom of the totem pole this week. She lacks the creativity, it seems to go with her obvious technical skills. I clearly think they picked Ilan over Sam due to the drama factor. Marcel is a very good cook, thoughtful and talented. I never got the impression he thought he was better than everybody, but that he was just confident in his own abilities. ---
**Author:** ![Grossbottom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba8739/32.png) [@Grossbottom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grossbottom)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-chef-1-24/389371/26 "2007-01-25T16:11:45Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Marcel was never the worst cook. There was never a week that he deserved to be kicked off. [/quote] As I pointed out in one of the prior threads, he served undercooked chicken. That’s a recipe for bacterial infection. So far no other chef has managed to serve a meal that could put a guest into the hospital. From someone who likes to cook and has given himself salmonella, there’s no question Marcel should have been kicked. If there’s ever any question about chicken, you overcook it or throw it out, because better a bad meal or none at all than to risk the alternative. But I do think Ilan is a one-note flute (easy on the saffron, emokid) and that Marcel is likely to win. I don’t think I can watch Pokemon Soulpatch take the prize without weeping openly. I wish Sam hadn’t gotten the knife, he’d be a better match I think. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-chef-1-24/389371/27 "2007-01-25T16:24:08Z")
[QUOTE=Grossbottom] As I pointed out in one of the prior threads, he served undercooked chicken. That’s a recipe for bacterial infection. So far no other chef has managed to serve a meal that could put a guest into the hospital. From someone who likes to cook and has given himself salmonella, there’s no question Marcel should have been kicked. If there’s ever any question about chicken, you overcook it or throw it out, because better a bad meal or none at all than to risk the alternative. [/quote] That got exaggerated on the show. One of the judges said her chicken wing was “rare” (not raw), but none of the others seemed to notice, and I don’t think there was any serious issue of undercooking, just the usual nitpicking for the show. They still ate it, after all. And Marcel also made the consensus BEST dish in that same challenge, the tempura vegetables. There were also at least two people who did considerably worse than Marcel on that challenge, Sam with his bleu cheese watermelon thing and Michael with his whole, stoner, slacker, cluelessness thing. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-chef-1-24/389371/28 "2007-01-25T16:26:11Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] He also said that Ilan has been calling him and leaving him voice mails every day since the finale but that he hasn’t returned them. [/QUOTE] But meaning what? Even if we (generously) grant that Marcel is telling the whole truth, all that information tells me is that Marcel is responding with his usual passive aggression. Why not return a phone call? For all we know, Ilan wants to apologize or bury the hatchet. Ignoring those messages is the same thing Marcel’s been doing the whole season, but in the kitchen. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-chef-1-24/389371/29 "2007-01-25T16:28:55Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] One of the judges said her chicken wing was “rare” (not raw)… [/QUOTE] Grossbottom didn’t say “raw”; he/she said “undercooked”. Rare chicken is undercooked. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-chef-1-24/389371/30 "2007-01-25T16:37:00Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] But meaning what? Even if we (generously) grant that Marcel is telling the whole truth, all that information tells me is that Marcel is responding with his usual passive aggression. Why not return a phone call? For all we know, Ilan wants to apologize or bury the hatchet. Ignoring those messages is the same thing Marcel’s been doing the whole season, but in the kitchen. [/QUOTE] He said it was because of how he was treated on the show. It may also be because Ilan has still been trashing him in the press. Ilan’s public tone about Marcel seemed to change a _little_ after the worst of the episodes aired and he saw how the public was perceiving things (I have a feeling they all thought during taping that Marcel was going to come off as the villain and themselves as sympathetic. the opposite happened), but not that much. He (Ilan) still hasn’t really apologized or acknowledged he was ever out of line. He just says stuff like “We were all under a lot of stress,” or “You had to be there.” ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-chef-1-24/389371/31 "2007-01-25T17:03:06Z")
> [@Dio](#): > > I have a feeling they all thought during taping that Marcel was going to come off as the villain and themselves as sympathetic. the opposite happened… I’m sorry, but we must live in two different realities. Every press source I’ve seen (including the one I linked above) paints Marcel as the villain. People all over the Internet (with exceptions, certainly) — and on Bravo’s own show — routinely vote him the least likable of all the contestants and the one who should go home. So, the opposite did not happen. To you, okay. But not categorically, the way you stated it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-chef-1-24/389371/32 "2007-01-25T17:08:17Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Marcel was also the one who kept shrugging off all the harrassment he got and kept trying to make it about the cooking. It was the Mean Girls group who kept trying to make it personal. [/QUOTE] I agree. For all his perceived faults, he never once trashed anyone. However, I’m still on the fence as to whether he’s indeed truly focused to the exclusion of others OR he instigates for the sake of it. I do think he has an issue with social skills, but since he’s always struck me as one of those geeky kids playing with a chemistry set, I can forgive it. And I don’t blame him for not returning Ilan’s phone calls either. I’d probably cave in and accept one just to see what Ilan would say, but after what happened on the show, there’d be no way I’d pursue a professional or personal friendship with him. ---
**Author:** ![Grossbottom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba8739/32.png) [@Grossbottom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grossbottom)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-chef-1-24/389371/33 "2007-01-25T17:27:50Z")
There’s a reason why you cannot find “rare” chicken on any menu, anywhere. You shouldn’t be able to order it off the menu either, a reputable chef would simply refuse the request. The drama factor spared him from what should have been the ax. Blue cheese and watermelon may have slouched toward Bethlehem to be born, but “rare” chicken is beyond what is remotely acceptable. It’s a health code violation. Never a week that he deserved to be kicked off? No, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-chef-1-24/389371/34 "2007-01-25T17:38:01Z")
If the chicken was so undercooked, then why did they eat it? The fact that they ate it anyway mitigates against any suggestion that it was truly a health hazard, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-chef-1-24/389371/35 "2007-01-25T17:51:59Z")
[QUOTE=Grossbottom] There’s a reason why you cannot find “rare” chicken on any menu, anywhere. You shouldn’t be able to order it off the menu either, a reputable chef would simply refuse the request. The drama factor spared him from what should have been the ax. Blue cheese and watermelon may have slouched toward Bethlehem to be born, but “rare” chicken is beyond what is remotely acceptable. It’s a health code violation. Never a week that he deserved to be kicked off? No, sorry. [/QUOTE] I actually didn’t buy the raw chicken bit. As you pointed out, he didn’t say raw, he said “rare”. Which judge said it, anyway? Chicken cooks pretty fast, and even cooked chicken can have a pinkish-rare look around the bone. Anyone cooking chicken has seen this. If it was raw or undercooked they wouldn’t have eaten it. It may have had a pinkish, unappealing look. I’ve worked in restaurants where people have sent chicken back saying it wasn’t cooked but it really was. People freak out over the slightest pinkish color. If chicken is undercooked it has an altogether different texture. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-chef-1-24/389371/36 "2007-01-25T18:34:00Z")
[QUOTE=kiz] I was sorry to see Sam go, too. I was pulling for him _sigh_ In all honesty, both he and Ilan played it safe. The only difference was Ilan’s using the taro leaf. But I agree with **Dio** in that they probably chose Ilan for the drama factor. I’m not a Marcel fan by any means, but I won’t be surprised if he’s named Top Chef next week. [/QUOTE] Ilan should have cooked the luau leaves with much less water to try to achieve a higher temperature. You are trying to break down the chemicals which cause the itchiness. Laulau’s-meat steamed in luau leaves are typically steamed for _ **4** _ hours. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-chef-1-24/389371/37 "2007-01-25T18:35:56Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] First of all…HA! Marcel made the final 2. I was so happy that Colicchio shut down their whiny little, last ditch attempt to scumbag Marcel. It still irritates me that Ilan (or as I call him, Wormtongue) made it to the final 2. Sam probably deserved it more, but I guess they wanted more drama. Elia lost me too with her pettiness over Marcel. I don’t think he intended for a second to sabotage anything she was cooking. He was a little oblivious, maybe, but I think he made an honest mistake. I think it’s pretty much a mismatch next week. Marcel will be the next Top Chef and I’ll be happy when it happens just to see the look on Ilan’s face. [/QUOTE] Those outdoor propane cooking stoves are notorious in going out when turned down low. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-chef-1-24/389371/38 "2007-01-25T18:38:23Z")
[QUOTE=ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies] Marcel comes across as cocky, but I always get the sense that he doesn’t take himself or anything else overly seriously, including his cockiness. I don’t think he’s truly pompous at the core of his being. Some of the other folks though…while they may not have projected much condescention and displayed more refined manners, I think many of them were a bit pompous at their cores, including Elia and Ilan. Sam too, though not to as great of a degree. That whole comment about how his watermellon/blue cheese dish would’ve been “huge” if he’d been some famous A-list chef, when it was so obviously disliked by so many…that was pompous. But it was one of the few times he let it show. [/QUOTE] Cooking nerd :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-chef-1-24/389371/39 "2007-01-25T18:42:24Z")
[QUOTE=Asgardking] Anyone else get turned on watching Padma lick poi off her fingers? Maybe I’ve been without a girlfriend too long. By the way, poi is nasty stuff, at least taro poi. Now taro pancaked are really good. [/QUOTE] Poi goes well with salty food-kalua pork, lomilomi salmon, laulau, etc. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-chef-1-24/389371/40 "2007-01-25T18:54:12Z")
[QUOTE=ouryL] Cooking nerd :dubious: [/QUOTE] Hardly. Just a fan of the show. In our house we’re lucky if we have more than 5 home-cooked meals a week. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-chef-1-24/389371.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-chef-1-24/389371.md?page=3)