# Top college football prospect \[Michael Sam\] comes out **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 10, 2014, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939 "2014-02-10T02:31:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/241 "2014-05-12T13:54:06Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Yeah, really. > > I’m not even sure what the complaint is. Apparently, ESPN turned this into a sideshow, but anyone who watches ESPN knows that they can turn anything into a sideshow, and **Stink Fish Pot** even seems to acknowledge this when he says that this is “Standard for ESPN.” The coverage of the kiss was, somewhat paradoxically, both “standard,” and yet also the “worst exploitation” ever on draft day. > > So i guess the criticism is that ESPN was as cynical and exploitative and self-serving with this particular incident as they are with any other incident that they think will keep their sports-obsessed viewership watching. I don’t follow these things all that closely, but when straight athletes are drafted how common is it for the media to publicize pictures of them kissing their girlfriends? The standard pictures to my knowledge are of them holding up the jersey of the team that drafted them. But as above, I don’t follow this all that much. > [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > Based on what I read, the fact that this kid wasn’t drafted at all until the 7th round says it all. He was the defensive player of the year if the SEC, correct? Isn’t that the best college football conference in the country? He has to be a great athlete and a great college football player. If he was straight, I cannot believe he would have not been taken in the fourth round at the latest… Someone would have taken a flyer on him. Why not? A DPOY is not a fluke. And I think I read somewhere that up until Sam, each person who won that award was drafted, and not in the last round, either. There have been Heisman Trothy winners who were not drafted at all (at least one, anyway, that I remember). > [@UTejas](#): > > Look at how much attention there was over Jason Collins coming out last year. It was newsworthy when he was signed to a contract and then newsworthy again when he became the first openly gay pro athlete in one of the US’s major sports. How much talk has there been since then? Collins is still on the Nets in the playoffs, and nobody has anything to say about him being a distraction or whatever. I would say Johnny Manziel is going to be much more of a media sensation than Michael Sam will be. There’ll be some stories about Sam during training camp and perhaps his first snaps as a pro. Unless someone says something stupid publicly, that’ll probably be it. I tend to agree with this. After the first couple of morons get slapped down, others will learn to shut up. The concern I would have, were I a GM, is that every decision involving the guy will be scrutinized for evidence of homophobia. Was he really given a “legitimate chance” to prove himself, and hey how about that other guy whose performance was arguably worse who didn’t get cut, and so on. For a guy who is apparently a marginal prospect to begin with, it’s another weight on the decision scale. > [@](#): > > He’s not strong enough to play DE in 4-3 scheme in the pros as of now. The strength thing can be fixed. If he goes out and works hard to gain strength without losing his speed around the edge, he’ll be a useful NFL player. Paradoxically, one thing that argues against that is that he’s _already_ thought to be a hard worker. So there might not be as much room for improvement as you might think. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/242 "2014-05-12T14:01:48Z")
Apparently the footage of the kiss was a bit unusual. It’s pretty normal for them to show the athlete hugging his mom and kissing his girlfriend, but supposedly they zoomed in on Sam’s kiss. I can’t comment on whether that’s true or not because I didn’t see it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/243 "2014-05-12T14:03:51Z")
[The SEC’s Defensive Players of the Year](http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/awards/sec-dpoy.html), for those interested in looking them up. > [@](#): > > 2013 Michael Sam Missouri 31 Solo, 17 Ast, 11.5 Sk > 2012 Jarvis Jones\* Georgia 52 Solo, 33 Ast, 14.5 Sk, 1 Int > 2011 Morris Claiborne\* Louisiana State 32 Solo, 19 Ast, 0.0 Sk, 6 Int > 2010 Patrick Peterson\* Louisiana State 29 Solo, 13 Ast, 0.0 Sk, 4 Int > 2009 Rolando McClain\* Alabama 53 Solo, 52 Ast, 4.0 Sk, 2 Int > 2008 Eric Berry Tennessee 7 Att, 37 Yds, 5.3 Avg, 0 TD > 2007 Glenn Dorsey\* Louisiana State 34 Solo, 35 Ast, 7.0 Sk, 0 Int > 2006 Patrick Willis Mississippi 87 Solo, 50 Ast, 3.0 Sk, 0 Int > 2005 Demeco Ryans\* Alabama 41 Solo, 35 Ast, 5.0 Sk, 1 Int > 2004 David Pollack\* Georgia > 2003 Chad Lavalais\* Louisiana State 1 Int, -5 Yds, 0 TD ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/244 "2014-05-12T14:05:53Z")
Off the top of my head… other than Pollack and Ryans, who I think were second round picks, and Lavalais, who I’ve never heard of, all of those guys went in the first round. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/245 "2014-05-12T14:28:56Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Off the top of my head… other than Pollack and Ryans, who I think were second round picks, and Lavalais, who I’ve never heard of, all of those guys went in the first round. How did all of those guys do in the NFL? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/246 "2014-05-12T14:39:10Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I don’t follow these things all that closely, but when straight athletes are drafted how common is it for the media to publicize pictures of them kissing their girlfriends? I don’t know (because i don’t watch the draft) and, to be honest, i don’t care. Despite **Stink Fish Pot** ’s railings, this was not simply a “PC stunt”; it was a significant moment in American social history. An institution with a massive national following, and renowned for its hyper-masculinity and homophobia, recruited its first openly-gay player. That’s a big deal, whether or not Sam ends up playing a single snap in the NFL. I’ll willingly concede that the focus on the kiss was probably orchestrated for drama by the league and/or the television network, but i can’t get too worked up about it. In an ideal world, two guys kissing shouldn’t even raise an eyebrow, but it does, and if showing the kiss makes assholes like [this](http://deadspin.com/ugly-america-responds-to-michael-sam-kissing-a-man-on-e-1574591627) upset and uncomfortable, and reinforces in their small minds that their bigoted worldview is becoming more marginalized every day, then it’s served a purpose. I’m not arguing that ESPN did it for this reason. The station is playing it over and over again for ratings. But, as i’ve already said in this thread, i can’t get too worked up over that either, because it’s what ESPN does. They spend hours sensationalizing shit that should require only a few minutes, and they do it for the same reason that CNN has spent the last two months “reporting” about the search for a lost airplane: when you run out of actual news, you have to do something to keep the chumps from changing the channel. When it’s not showing an actual sporting event—Sunday night baseball or Monday night football or a softball tournament or a NASCAR race or whatever—ESPN is, for the most part, a network of shitty reporters and blowhard “analysts” who understand that about 90 percent of what they broadcast is recycled crap or speculative nonsense. They’re just lucky that the average sports fan is either too obsessed or too stupid to care. And i say all that as a huge sports fans, but one who spends very little time watching ESPN. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/247 "2014-05-12T14:41:13Z")
> [@](#): > > How did all of those guys do in the NFL? Pollack was an instant star for the Bengals, then broke his neck at the beginning of his second year and was forced to retire. If he was still in the league he’d probably be a perennial Pro Bowler. Ryans was defensive Rookie of the Year and made a couple of Pro Bowls, but has had injury concerns. Willis was the best MLB in the league more or less from the moment he was drafted and is an automatic Pro Bowler every year. Dorsey never quite lived up to the draft hype (he didn’t fit well into the Chiefs’ scheme) but has been a solid pro and started most of last season for the 49ers. Berry is one of the league’s best cover safeties and is the backbone of the Chiefs’ defense. He made the Pro Bowl each of the last three seasons. McClain was a bust for the Raiders and retired at the age of 23. Peterson was an instant star and is the best player on the Cardinals’ defense. Claiborne has been an up and down performer for the Cowboys and was benched last year (though he was playing with an injury.) Jones was a spot starter for Pittsburgh as a rookie. Their scheme requires a lot from linebackers so we probably won’t know if he’s any good for a couple of years. The upshot is that drafting the SEC player of the year is generally a good idea. Compare the players above to, say, [the last 20 Heisman winners](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Heisman_Trophy_winners). Cam Newton and RGIII are the only ones since 1996 to become stars in the NFL (unless you include Reggie Bush and Tim Tebow, who are “stars” because of their collegiate and off-field fame.) ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/248 "2014-05-12T14:48:13Z")
As for straight athletes and draft-night canoodling, do an image search for Jan Vesely, even without any additional search terms. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/249 "2014-05-12T14:50:15Z")
Even if he nevers gets out fo training camp, never sees a single NFL snap, never signs with another team; it got the NFL Network to shut the hell up about that overhyped, future locker room cancer, Matt Leinart-partyboy-wannabe, bust -to-be Johnny Manziel for one day. That alone is worth a 7th round compensatory pick. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/250 "2014-05-12T14:53:32Z")
I just looked up Lavalais. He’s the only other player on that list who wasn’t drafted in the first two rounds. He played two seasons for the Falcons as a fifth-round pick and was out of football after his third year. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/251 "2014-05-12T14:59:03Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > To you it’s nothing. Darn, you caught me: the thing I posted was my opinion. I think you’re misunderstanding what I said, so I’ll expand upon it a little: your complaint has zero factual basis and zero internal logic. Even if it were true, which is unlikely and which you’ll never prove, it would probably be irrelevant. Does that help? At best, what you’re posted is just grumpiness. And I have nothing against being grumpy, but by nature grumpiness is petty and there’s only so much energy anybody should devote to broadcasting it. > [@](#): > > Any other 7th round picks have film crews at their homes, making sure they capture the moment? Were any other 7th-round picks the subject of national news because they were breaking down a known barrier in the sport? I think the answer is no. The signings of 35-year-old free agents isn’t usually news either, but it was news when the Nets signed Jason Collins. This was the same thing, and we know how coverage of Collins went after that. You can try to make an argument for covering sports purely in statistical terms and ignoring the personalities and any broader issues, but our culture has never ever viewed sports that way. Sports are entertainment and these things are part of the entertainment. And of course things like social prejudice and individual rights are really more important than who tackles who. > [@](#): > > And how is showing Sam and his boyfriend smashing cake into each other’s faces newsworthy He’s in the news for reasons I hope I don’t have to explain. (Or do I?) Given the choice between an ESPN graphic announcing he’d been drafted and some footage of how he reacted to the news, people would rather see his reaction. We’re a visual species and we invented photography for a reason. > [@](#): > > or something that we all need to see? I really hope this isn’t a “ewwwww, men kissing!” thing. Please, please tell me it’s not. Bottom line: some guys get drafted and kiss their girlfriends or wives and party, and Michael Sam got drafted and kissed his boyfriend and partied. The-freaking-end. > [@](#): > > and to ignore WHY ESPN chose to show that footage over and over, IMO lets ESPN off the hook for making the moment a voyeuristic spectacle, and not just what it was… A great moment for Sam. It was a great moment, but for some reason you’re insisting it should’ve been kept private because making it public is “voyeuristic.” Since Sam is the first openly gay person to try to play in the NFL and agreed to have an ESPN crew at his house while he waited to (maybe) get drafted, that’s more than a little ironic. It’s true that running footage into the ground is ESPN’s thing and I’m sure they did that here. I saw the picture online two or three times and watched the video once because I chose not to sit and watch the draft all day. [Although here’s a Slate article that says ESPN actually stopped airing footage of the kiss for a little while](http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/05/10/michael_sam_kiss_the_st_louis_rams_pick_the_openly_gay_missouri_star_in.html), and it says that move prompted some people to ask what was going on. (And to answer **Really Not All That Bright** ’s question, the camera zooms in and out several times but doesn’t zoom in on the kiss.) And here’s another question: did ESPN do anything else voyeuristic over the three days of the draft? Was it voyeuristic to interview Jadaveon Clowney after he was drafted? Or to cut back to Johnny Manziel in the green room over and over? It’s the whole process actually voyeuristic in the extreme? > [@](#): > > The problem with political correctness and living your life by it is that it hides underlying prejudices and biases. You spend so much time making sure that everyone knows that you are on the “right” side of everything, that you deny things that are obvious for fear of being thought of as politically incorrect. And your opinions become washed away, because everyone knows how you would view any situation. > > To not have an opinion on how ESPN handled this thing is hard to believe, because it WAS meant to cause a reaction. I would think you would be able to see that regardless of your sexual orientation. There’s a whole lot of “what in the world are you talking about?” in here. I did have an opinion on the footage itself. I thought it was a sweet moment, and I was glad for Michael Sam because I’d been hoping he would get drafted and go on to succeed in the NFL. I think your complaints about the video of Sam have no content. There’s no logical basis, and they may even stray into “not even wrong” territory. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/252 "2014-05-12T15:06:12Z")
Thanks. I figured it was something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/253 "2014-05-12T16:16:48Z")
So let me understand this, there were people watching the seventh round of the draft? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/254 "2014-05-12T17:29:20Z")
Given Sam’s relative fame (for a late round pick) I expect his reaction was replayed on SportsCenter, et al. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/255 "2014-05-12T17:41:20Z")
Good. The more we see guys kissing, the less reaction there will be to it. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/256 "2014-05-12T19:21:14Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > So let me understand this, there were people watching the seventh round of the draft? Sure. College players have parents too. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/257 "2014-05-12T20:23:34Z")
Other than people interested in the Michael Sam story? Sure. Shut-ins, hospital patients who couldn’t reach the remote, the drunk or semi-comatose, institutional inmates, the terminally bored, devoted fans who need to know the entire roster at all times, and a bunch of get-a-lifers. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/258 "2014-05-12T20:42:17Z")
My guess is it’s mostly fans of specific college players wanting to see if (or to which team) their guy gets drafted. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/259 "2014-05-13T20:37:43Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > My guess is it’s mostly fans of specific college players wanting to see if (or to which team) their guy gets drafted. Sure there is that. Also the popularity of fantasy football has changed the focus of many people. I have friends who know the minutiae of players deep on rosters of teams they otherwise wouldn’t care about. A lot of those fantasy players keep track of as many players as possible. Hearing the scouting reports of all new players coming in is something they are very interested in. I know its beating a dead horse at this point but for everyone crowing about Michael Sam being defensive player of the year (I’m looking at you George Takei on Facebook), Jordan Lynch finished 3rd in Heisman voting. So it could be said he was voted the 3rd best player in college football. He did not get drafted at all. That’s because he is a quarterback that does not fit the NFL QB mold. He was signed post-draft by the Bears as a running back. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/260 "2014-05-13T21:15:40Z")
The guy I was thinking of was Charlie Ward, who actually _won_ the Heisman and was not drafted. Although it could be that in his case people expected him to play pro basketball instead (as he actually did) and didn’t want to waste the pick. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939.md?page=14)