# Top college football prospect \[Michael Sam\] comes out **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 10, 2014, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939 "2014-02-10T02:31:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/21 "2014-02-10T17:19:36Z")
There are 32 teams which means there are going to be 32 different ways it is handled. There will be teams that put a lot of weight on the possible disruptions, there will teams that put a lot of weight on character (in a good way), courage and the fact he is respected by his teammates. There are those that will simply evaluate him on his football abilities. And there may even be a team or two that actually wants to make a social statement and grade him higher for that. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/22 "2014-02-10T17:23:14Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Even before Jason Collins came out, people were wondering when we’d start to see openly gay athletes in the major sports, and the speculation only picked up after Collins’ announcement. Yeah, you notice how quickly he got resigned after he made that announcement? Maybe Sam will be a Redskin-wouldn’t that be a fun pickle with the “debate” over the team’s name? Or Philadelphia: think of the “Brotherly Love” jokes. I hope he goes to a city with a “tough-guy” reputation like Pittsburgh, just to show up the critics. Someone will pick him, but unfortunately there will always be questions as to whether his orientation and the “media circus” influenced that choice, at least until he shows if he can play. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/23 "2014-02-10T17:25:51Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Yeah, you notice how quickly he got resigned after he made that announcement? Collins was a reserve player who was near the end of his career, though. I thought there were a couple of teams with a shot at the playoffs who pick him up, but even before he came out it was possible nobody would sign him because a lot of teams would not have picked up a player like him, straight or gay. Sam is the opposite: he’s at the beginning of his career, he has some strong credentials, and based on his resume in college, how many teams would flat-out reject him in the right draft position or as a free agent? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/24 "2014-02-10T17:26:27Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > We could be here all month listing guys who continued to play in the NFL despite trouble with the law, distracting personal problems, controversial comments, rules violations, and on and on. Yes. Proven players with NFL level talent. Not unproven college kids with big questions on his scouting report. ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/25 "2014-02-10T17:30:00Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Collins was a reserve player near the end of his career. I thought there were a couple of teams with a shot at the playoffs who pick him up, but even before he came out it was possible nobody would sign him. Sam is the opposite: he’s at the beginning of his career and he has some strong credentials. It bothered me how Collins was so transparently trying to make himself relevant. So you’d get all these articles saying things like: Collins hasn’t been signed. Maybe it’s becuase he’s a washed up never-quite-was as the end of his career or mabye it’s the gay thing, you decide. Although, the notion that a team might be shamed into signing you because you’re gay is a huge victory for gay rights itself. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/26 "2014-02-10T17:43:46Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Yes. Proven players with NFL level talent. Not unproven college kids with big questions on his scouting report. They take chances on players like that _All The Time_. Yes, sometimes those things really hurt their draft position. But the lesson is always the same: if you’re talented enough, someone will give you a shot. > [@Falchion](#): > > It bothered me how Collins was so transparently trying to make himself relevant. Yeah yeah. Guys like this can’t win, can they? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/27 "2014-02-10T17:48:40Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Yes. Proven players with NFL level talent. Not unproven college kids with big questions on his scouting report. Really? College kids who were drafted and already had legal trouble don’t exist? Drug trouble? Trouble with girlfriends/children? Yeah, they exist, and they still play and get drafted. The PR spin about the risk of “distraction” is not convincing. The lower rounds are chock full of guys who have “character issues”, which we all know is basically a euphemism for “might get arrested before he’s even in the building” or “has been arrested before but we’re taking a shot anyway”. Sam’s been projected as high as a 3rd rounder. Even the anonymous NFL personnel guys were saying this might only drop him down a couple rounds. There’s some questions about how he’ll translate to the NFL but not so big he wouldn’t be picked up at all, short a disastrous combine. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/28 "2014-02-10T17:51:41Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yeah yeah. Guys like this can’t win, can they? Meh. He really was at the end of his career. Kudos for his coming out and all, though. The locker room culture nonsense is also BS, of course. The ['93 Oilers](http://deadspin.com/the-houston-oilers-had-two-mostly-openly-gay-players-1490007001) had a couple of players who were basically out. And some very vocally homophobic players on the team. Apparently, it didn’t matter as long as they did their job. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/29 "2014-02-10T17:53:47Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Collins was a reserve player who was near the end of his career, though. I thought there were a couple of teams with a shot at the playoffs who pick him up, but even before he came out it was possible nobody would sign him because a lot of teams would not have picked up a player like him, straight or gay. Sam is the opposite: he’s at the beginning of his career, he has some strong credentials, and based on his resume in college, how many teams would flat-out reject him in the right draft position or as a free agent? Yes, but can you say that Collins’ announcement made no difference in his being picked up or not? No, no one can, and that’s the unfortunate part of this, that prejudice might affect someone’s prospects. Why would scouts even ask about anyone’s orientation, as they are reputed to do? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/30 "2014-02-10T18:16:15Z")
No, no one can say whether Collins hurt his chances of getting another NBA job. That’s unfortunate. By the way I’m pretty sure that asking players about their sexual orientation is illegal discrimination. But the only way that’s going to change is if players decide to say, more or less, “You know I’m good and I can help your team win. I dare you to pick someone else because I’m gay. I’ll go to another team, we’ll kick your ass, and you’ll look stupid and maybe lose your job.” ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/31 "2014-02-10T18:45:44Z")
Collins isn’t the right example. Kerry Rhodes is. He didn’t find work in the NFL after being outed, despite being a decent player. You can come out at the end of your career, or at the beginning, but not in the middle. It’s Jackie Robinson all over again. The first one will be “Oh noes!” and the next season we’ll have ten more out players and no one will bat an eye. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/32 "2014-02-10T19:07:04Z")
Rumors were started, but when was Rhodes actually outed? He’s strongly denied it, btw. Anyway, that would be even worse, if a guy were blacklisted solely because of a false rumor. Kordell Stewart’s career continued even after everyone pretty much knew, due to his arrest in that park. So yes, if the guy’s good enough, he’s going to play anyway. Coaches and GM’s do like winning. ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/33 "2014-02-10T19:38:17Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Really? College kids who were drafted and already had legal trouble don’t exist? Drug trouble? Trouble with girlfriends/children? Yeah, they exist, and they still play and get drafted. > > The PR spin about the risk of “distraction” is not convincing. The lower rounds are chock full of guys who have “character issues”, which we all know is basically a euphemism for “might get arrested before he’s even in the building” or “has been arrested before but we’re taking a shot anyway”. Yes…but those players are STRAIGHT. Or at least not publicly gay or bisexual. And that makes a great deal of difference. Fair? No. But then, neither is life. ---
**Author:** ![Bellhorn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Bellhorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bellhorn)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/34 "2014-02-10T19:38:43Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > They take chances on players like that _All The Time_. Yes, sometimes those things really hurt their draft position. But the lesson is always the same: if you’re talented enough, someone will give you a shot. > > Yeah yeah. Guys like this can’t win, can they? But the distraction with drafting the “first openly gay” player is a different type of distraction altogether… and it has very little to do with the views of his teammates. If he’s drafted, you’ll have hordes of media, many of them non-sports media, following his every move. And, if the time comes when you have to cut that player, you’re going to be dealing with media, in and out of sports, questioning WHY you cut the gay guy. So the first openly gay player drafted had better be as close to a sure thing to make the team as is possible. I’m not sure if Sam is anywhere near that status as an under-sized defensive end. Now if a player the caliber of Andrew Luck had been the first openly-gay player to enter the draft, there’d be no issue. The media issue aside, I really don’t think there’s any real problem with being gay on a pro team, in any sport. Just about every athlete knows he’s already had gay teammates. And I’m estimating that about half of the pro players have even been aware of who those players were. This is not like Jackie Robinson integrating Baseball in 1947 – there weren’t any Black MLB players pretending to be white. (Well maybe there were, but you get the point.) What Pro GM, coach or player thinks that a gay man can’t play as well as a straight man? ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/35 "2014-02-10T19:48:34Z")
> [@Bellhorn](#): > > The media issue aside, I really don’t think there’s any real problem with being gay on a pro team, in any sport. Just about every athlete knows he’s already had gay teammates. And I’m estimating that about half of the pro players have even been aware of who those players were. This is not like Jackie Robinson integrating Baseball in 1947 – there weren’t any Black MLB players pretending to be white. (Well maybe there were, but you get the point.) There were,however, Cuban players who were pretending not to be “Black.” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/36 "2014-02-10T19:49:09Z")
An undersized but quick DE is very often moved to OLB as a pro, so maybe that’s how to evaluate him. [One view](http://www.boston.com/sports/blogs/obnoxiousbostonfan/2014/02/mike_sam_would_be_perfect_fit_for_patriots.html) is that the Pats would be a fine team to take him, since their locker room is under tight control and Belichick is good at clamping down on media circuses (e.g. Tebowmania). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/37 "2014-02-10T19:52:15Z")
> [@Bellhorn](#): > > But the distraction with drafting the “first openly gay” player is a different type of distraction altogether… and it has very little to do with the views of his teammates. If he’s drafted, you’ll have hordes of media, many of them non-sports media, following his every move. Which is also what happens if a player is accused of a high profile crime or says something that outrages a lot of people. After a certain point, media attention is media attention and teams are used to handling that. And that attention fades faster than people think. Does anyone still care if Tim Tebow gets a QB job or not? Does anyone have any Manti Te’o jokes left? If Sam gets drafted and makes a team, it’ll get a lot of coverage through the draft, training camp, and into the early part of the season. But by week four a hundred other things will be happening in the NFL and this will be just one of them. The story won’t be dictated by his mere existence; it’ll be based on how he plays and what happens. > [@](#): > > So the first openly gay player drafted had better be as close to a sure thing to make the team as is possible. Or what? > [@](#): > > Now if a player the caliber of Andrew Luck had been the first openly-gay player to enter the draft, there’d be no issue. I assure you people would be saying pretty much the same things. There are always people saying ‘this barrier needs to fall, but it’s not the right time/this isn’t the right person to break it.’ > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [One view](http://www.boston.com/sports/blogs/obnoxiousbostonfan/2014/02/mike_sam_would_be_perfect_fit_for_patriots.html) is that the Pats would be a fine team to take him, since their locker room is under tight control and Belichick is good at clamping down on media circuses (e.g. Tebowmania). I don’t know if the Seahawks need help at LB (I’ve also read that he’s likely to move), but is anyone going to say Pete Carroll wouldn’t take a chance on an openly gay player? ---
**Author:** ![Bellhorn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Bellhorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bellhorn)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/38 "2014-02-10T19:56:05Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > There were,however, Cuban players who were pretending not to be “Black.” Reminds me of the movie about the Negro Leagues, _Bingo Long and his Traveling All Stars_, where Richard Pryor’s character, Charlie Snow, was learning Spanish, changed his name to Carlos Nevada, and then pretended to be Cuban to get a Major League tryout. But I think Judge Landis did a through job on “clearing out” from the game, any Cubans who were “too black.” I was actually thinking of someone like Adam Clayton Powell Jr, long-time congressman from Harlem, who passed for White, at college, in the 30s, and played sports for Colgate. ---
**Author:** ![chargerrich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chargerrich/32/5399_2.png) [@chargerrich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chargerrich)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/39 "2014-02-10T20:04:25Z")
Only one small problem… the guy is mediocre at best. Yes he was co-defensive player of the year in the SEC Yes he had a great year at Mizzou Yes he had the game winning strip in the Cotton Bowl But He is a tweener, looked STIFF at the all-star game He is too small to play DE and has no real coverage skills He will be overpowered at the NFL and no able to get to QB Sometimes great college players do not translate to the NFL (see Josh Heupel, Aaron Maybin, Vernon Gholston and Chris Weinke to name a few) His 40 at the combine will dedicate his draft stock, if he runs a 4.5 then MAYBE he is a 3-4th rounder… he will probably run 4.65ish and be a 6-7th rounder that someone will take in the 5th BECAUSE of the exposure. My prediction is we get 1 or more current players to come out before the draft now that the first guy stepped up (out). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939/40 "2014-02-10T20:04:50Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > The Packers should draft him. Lombardi had a very strong anti-homophobic position he enforced as coach. OK, that’s not a good reason, but still one if my favorite things about Lombardi. I assume you’re referring to his (Vince’s) gay brother? 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-college-football-prospect-michael-sam-comes-out/680939.md?page=3)