Hamlet, what you’ve written is pretty much bullshit and completely silly.
Glad to know that you don’t consider those ad hominem attacks.
They are not ad hominem attacks. You might want to look up the definition of the term.
I don’t. Now if you said I was full of bullshit, and that I was silly, then they would be ad hominem attacks.
But, if it makes you feel better and more willing to discuss the actual substance of my refutation of your posts, I do apologize for being overly confrontational in my posts if you took them that way.
If you assume he is as normal as the next guy then he’s going to be looking around the locker room like any heterosexual guy would in the women’s locker room. What do you think all those muscle bound prison rejects are going to do when that happens? I think that’s going to have to be addressed in a serious manner.
Oh noes!
Find a gay guy and ask him how often he stares at other men in a crowded locker room. Keep in mind that we know there have been gay players in the NFL before and somehow they’ve never caused a riot by staring at their teammates.
And apparently this wasn’t an issue this last season at Mizzou, either.
“Oh no! what’ll happen to the gays when they can’t keep their eyes off a bunch of thugs? I’m just looking out for them!” is just sad at this point.
nvm
This part is a bit uncalled for in this forum. Let’s ease up on comments like this to other posters outside of the Pit.
We had that discussion already. No saints of visual purity floated to the top of the discussion. Prior to this year nobody in the NFL admitted to being gay. There is a general assumption you’re not being ogled by your team mate and that changes when your team mate admits he is sexually attracted to the same sex.
So maybe you can explain why this situation is different than a member of the opposite sex being in the locker room?
Because nudity is only as sexualized as we make it. For most straight Americans, nudity and sexuality are linked because we segregate genders in almost every setting that involves nudity except sexual settings. Gay Americans, though, grow up in that same context, so same-sex nudity is associated with locker rooms as much as with sex. For a gay man, especially an athlete, showering in a group setting with other men doesn’t have to be anything more than a shower, because it’s something he’s done for years.
What’s funny is suddenly he’s too small. He’s the same size as Terrell Suggs… and actually bigger than Elvis Dumerville. Prior to finding out his sexuality I watched him all year in the SEC and was impressed with his tenacity… ability to close on the QB and his leadership. THe game against Florida was really a standout. Florida had a crappy year… but that team is still loaded with five star athletes. Auburn’s Dee Ford is also a smaller pass rushing D End. Ford has shown the ability to transition to LB on the next level. These same questions were also directed at David Pollock. When you look at his character (family history etc) his ability to close on the passer… and his leadership on the field… he’s somebody I would def take a flyer on in the fourth of fifth round. I’m seriously betting that he makes his mark on the next level. Some guys just have to drive… the fight… some dudes dont. People had questions on Jared Allen too…
Of course it doesn’t have to be anything more than a shower for gay or heterosexual men. But that doesn’t really address what you said first. We segregate genders in almost every setting that involves nudity except sexual settings. We do this because of sexual attraction. It separates people from unwarranted attention.
Now you can write encyclopedic volumes on why we should all run nekid through our daily routines but it doesn’t really address current social norms where people prefer a degree of personal privacy.
So what does that mean to the team that pics up Mr. Sam? Not a lot. but the team members should receive the same due consideration of privacy based on current norms of sexual attraction.
But you’re looking at the social norm from the perspective of a straight man - you’re (a) attracted to women, and (b) generally separated from naked women, so you assume the taboo on nudity has to do with sexual attraction. To a gay man who’s grown up in those locker rooms, nudity is an issue of gender rather than sexual attraction.
It didn’t seem to be a problem for his team at Mizzou. If a team full of 18-22 year olds can handle a gay teammate, there’s no reason the (ostensibly) more mature players in the NFL couldn’t do the same.
Terrell Suggs was a linebacker in college not a defensive lineman.
He’s also a linebacker in the pros, though sometimes he lines up as a defensive end.
Generally speaking college lineman who are Sam’s size in college have to convert to linebackers to be starters.
If he’s fast enough, he’ll certainly be able to do it, but it’s unclear it he is.
FTR, I hope he does.
Also, Magiver’s comments about “Oh my God, a queer will see naked men in the locker room” make little sense since his college team knows his orientation and is 100% behind him.
He’s clearly got the guts, the poise, and the grace to make it, I think his teammates will be more accepting than people think.
They’re mostly young guys who’ve been to college and been exposed to a wider world.
I’m worried that teams will be afraid to take a shot with him because it’s not clear he’s a sure thing, a media circus will follow him, if they cut him they’ll be accused of discrimination or at least people will wonder and finally they’ll have to worry about alienating many of their fans.
Like I said before, Hollywood is hardly that homophobic, but it’s long been known that openly gay actors have a difficult to near impossible job getting roles as action heroes(to avoid alienating male fans) or male leads in romantic comedies(to avoid alienating female fans who don’t like the idea of their crushes being gay.
Gay male actors generally are regulated to being comedians or the best friends of the female lead.
well true… but dumerville and Pollak were both def ends… I hope Sam reps 25 plus on the bench and knocks the cone drill dead… then see what the come up with next.
Okay… say im Phil Emery… I draft Sam… (probably not reality cause I already have Shane McCellan who we cant seem to figure out what he is)
I bring Micheal out… he does a round on interviews nationally… ESPN… Peter King… etc… Then he does a big round with local guys. Sun Times… Trib… local sport radio dudes. Specialty people in the LGBT community… THEN… THATS IT.
You simply shut it down… Micheal is their to figure out how to make the pro transition… people act like Bill Belichick is an anomaly…no he just an asshole who doesnt take any crap. Do the spots… talk… then shut it down… Lance Briggs (who whoever is the Briggs) comes out and sets the tone… the questions end… the distraction ends… Sam is just a rookie carrying some vets crap… trying to work on his technique…
yes the taboo on nudity has to do with sexual attraction. And just because you say gay men don’t look at other men in the locker room does not make it so. It’s human nature. I think your argument is disingenuous in this regard.
And if someone wishes their privacy are they entitled to it? Does modesty equal rejection in your mind?
Had I told my high school football coach that I was modest and uncomfortable around naked men in the locker room he’d have told me to grow up.
Why? Because you say so? By the time he’s an NFL prospect, a gay athlete has spent a decade or more showering in group settings. He’s not ogling his teammates or using the locker room for sexual gratification, because he would have gotten the shit kicked out of him early and often if he were. He’s just washing up after the game.
It’s analogous to a theater dressing room. Actors and actresses get into and out of costumes as part of their jobs. They share small spaces in various states of undress, and sometimes help each other with complicated changes. It’s part of their job, not a meat market. Same thing with an athlete.
Well, no - nobody in the NFL is “entitled” to much of anything. If the coach and front office decide Sam can help the team, then you make your peace with it or you pack your bags. Modesty plays no role in that.
do they get naked? Are you asking me to accept that someone who wishes privacy when dressing doesn’t get it?
How do you figure people aren’t entitled to their privacy? Is the public entitled to view the players naked because the coach says so? This isn’t even dipping much of a toe in the pool of devils advocate.
Actors are sometimes naked in quick costume changes. In performances, too. Someone who wants privacy doesn’t audition for parts that don’t allow it. If they do anyway and get the part, then they have to decide between the job requirements and their sense of modesty. They’re not “entitled” to throw a monkeywrench into a performance because they’re shy.
In the same sense, NFL players aren’t entitled to modesty. The locker room is pretty much a job requirement, and they can live with the team rules or find another job.
As far as run-of-the-mill people go, shared locker rooms are essentially gender-segregated public spaces. We as individuals don’t get to limit other peoples’ access to public spaces. Besides, it’s a locker room, not a bathhouse. If you’re that “modest” (which I guess is code for “homophobic”), you’re probably better off going home to shower anyway.