# Top Five Brutally Bad Plotholes in Quality Movies: Let's Compile a List **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 8, 2008, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548 "2008-05-08T11:29:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/281 "2008-05-16T20:44:06Z")
> [@](#): > > And what you did was, you took the staff to a special room in Tannis, a map room with a miniature of the city laid out on the floor, and if you put the staff in a certain place, at a certain time of the day the sun shone through here and created beam which came down to the floor here, and gave you the exact location of the Well of the Souls. Not a plot hole, just a stretch…it was certainly convenient that Indy was able to put the staff of Ra in the right hole at the exact right hour of the right day. Or maybe they just edited out the 12 hours or so that showed him leaning on the staff, waiting for the sun to hit it. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/282 "2008-05-16T20:59:37Z")
[QUOTE=jsc1953] Not a plot hole, just a stretch…it was certainly convenient that Indy was able to put the staff of Ra in the right hole at the exact right hour of the right day. Or maybe they just edited out the 12 hours or so that showed him leaning on the staff, waiting for the sun to hit it. [/QUOTE] IIRC it was noon when the sun hit the map room, so they just got there for a little before then. Also Tannis is in Eqypt in the region where seasons don’t very a great deal, so the day of the year probably didn’t make a difference to the position of the sun. ---
**Author:** ![jk1245](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/49beb7/32.png) [@jk1245](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jk1245)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/283 "2008-05-16T21:05:49Z")
[QUOTE=Antinor01] There may be something I’ve forgotten, but in The Wizard of Oz when the WWoTW has Dorothy locked in the tower and says she will be dead when the hourglass is empty. Why does Dorothy then believe that she will be ok if they get her out of the tower? And of course, why was she ok just by being let of that room? [/QUOTE] Though it’s never clearly stated how Dorothy will die, it’s pretty clear that the witch and/or her henchmen will come back and do it when the time runs out. The witch needs to go get/do something to ensure that the shoes can be removed and remain active ("These things must be done delicately). ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/284 "2008-05-16T21:13:03Z")
[QUOTE=jk1245] The witch needs to go get/do something to ensure that the shoes can be removed and remain active ("These things must be done delicately). [/QUOTE] Like, a shoehorn? ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/285 "2008-05-16T21:25:40Z")
[QUOTE=jk1245] Though it’s never clearly stated how Dorothy will die, it’s pretty clear that the witch and/or her henchmen will come back and do it when the time runs out. The witch needs to go get/do something to ensure that the shoes can be removed and remain active ("These things must be done delicately). [/QUOTE] Hmm, for some reason I completely missed that inference all these years. I was under the assumption that it was a spell. ---
**Author:** ![jk1245](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/49beb7/32.png) [@jk1245](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jk1245)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/286 "2008-05-16T21:39:29Z")
[QUOTE=jsc1953] Like, a shoehorn? [/QUOTE] Perhaps, or maybe some of that stuff they spray in bowling shoes. Dorothy’s had them on quite a while. Actually, **Antinor** , it seemed clear to me, but the dialogue is a bit vague. [from here](http://www.filmsite.org/wiza4.html) > [@](#): > > Fool that I am. I should have remembered. Those slippers will never come off, as long as you’re alive. But that’s not what’s worrying me. It’s how to do it. These things must be done delicately or you hurt the spell… [He got away]…which is more than you will. Drat you and your dog. You’ve been more trouble to me than you’re worth, one way or another, but it’ll soon be over now. Do you see that? (She holds up a large hourglass timer with blood-red sand and turns it over to mark the last remaining minutes of Dorothy’s life.) That’s how much longer you’ve got to be alive. And it isn’t long, my pretty. It isn’t long. I can’t wait for everything to get those shoes. Sounds like it could be a spell, after all. The witch apparently went to the Dr. Evil school of evil plotting. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/287 "2008-05-16T22:21:10Z")
[QUOTE=iwakura43] \ parsecs are a unit of distance, not time \ [/QUOTE] Yah think? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/288 "2008-05-16T22:29:30Z")
[QUOTE=mlees] I would venture to guess that if Lucas had to explain the Ark more, he would say that it was a tool of God. [/quote] Clearly it’s a MacGodfin. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2008, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/289 "2008-05-17T10:40:23Z")
Just saw another one (And BTW this has got to be my biggest hit, thread-wise. W00t!): Anyway, I was watching **Back To The Future** last night. There’s a scene where the Delorean with the dog in it is first going to hit 88mph. Marty slowly steps away as he’s filming, then Doc Brown glares at him and he scoots closer. Then the Delorean heads straight for them at 88mph. And disappears right before it hits them. OK, maybe Doc Brown would stand there knowing what’s coming, but I’m sorry, there ain’t no WAY Marty would stand there as long as he did without diving out of the way. //Was going to also bring up that Doc tore up the note and it flew through the air in the swirling wind and there’s no way to retrieve it, but to my surprise that didn’t happen - he put the ripped up pieces in his pocket almost immediately - and then other shit happened. (Lightning struck that tree branch). ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2008, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/290 "2008-05-17T11:41:53Z")
I re-watched _Raiders_ this evening on DVD, and I had an awkward realisation: Indiana Jones is at least partially inadvertently responsible for WWII. If he hadn’t interfered with the Ark being loaded onto the German aircraft, it would have been flown back to Berlin and opened in front of Hitler- which would, of course, have released the spirits and the face-melting and the death to everyone in the room- including Hitler. So, by preventing the Ark from being taken directly to Berlin, Indy accidentally saved _Der Fuhrer_’s life- which meant Hitler wasn’t prevented from invading Poland or doing any of the other unpleasant things that subsequently happened between 1939 and 1945. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2008, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/291 "2008-05-17T13:16:23Z")
My vote is for “THE GODFATHER”. Michael does his thing with Hyman Roth in Havana-Castro overthrows Batista in 1959. Michael is hauled into senate hearings 9the ‘kefuaver’ hearings-only they happened BEFORE the Cuban revolution. In “GODFATHER III”, Michael has the Pope assassinated (poisoning); only the Vatican Bank scandal didn’t happen that way. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2008, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/292 "2008-05-17T13:21:29Z")
[QUOTE=Morbo] OK, maybe Doc Brown would stand there knowing what’s coming, but I’m sorry, there ain’t no WAY Marty would stand there as long as he did without diving out of the way. [/QUOTE] Quick answer: Doc’s done this shit before. Remember the giant speaker? Marty knows enough to trust Doc despite his instincts. Note: This is stupid. Nay, this is MAD! But hell, every Igor needs a little crazy. And Marty is totally an Igor. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2008, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/293 "2008-05-17T13:28:04Z")
> [@](#): > > My vote is for “THE GODFATHER”. Michael does his thing with Hyman Roth in Havana-Castro overthrows Batista in 1959. Michael is hauled into senate hearings 9the ‘kefuaver’ hearings-only they happened BEFORE the Cuban revolution. In “GODFATHER III”, Michael has the Pope assassinated (poisoning); only the Vatican Bank scandal didn’t happen that way. Yeah, and also Joey Zasa (John Gotti) didn’t attack the boss with a machine-gun helicopter attack. How the hell is that a plot hole? Of course it didn’t happen that way. Godfather III is fiction, not a fucking history channel documentary. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2008, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/294 "2008-05-17T15:31:58Z")
[QUOTE=Martini Enfield] If he hadn’t interfered with the Ark being loaded onto the German aircraft, it would have been flown back to Berlin and opened in front of Hitler- which would, of course, have released the spirits and the face-melting and the death to everyone in the room- including Hitler. [/QUOTE] I think you win the thread. (OK, that wasn’t a plot hole, so you get the “Miss Congeniality” award." ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/295 "2008-05-17T17:09:49Z")
[QUOTE=Martini Enfield] If he hadn’t interfered with the Ark being loaded onto the German aircraft, it would have been flown back to Berlin and opened in front of Hitler- which would, of course, have released the spirits and the face-melting and the death to everyone in the room- including Hitler. So, by preventing the Ark from being taken directly to Berlin, Indy accidentally saved _Der Fuhrer_’s life- which meant Hitler wasn’t prevented from invading Poland or doing any of the other unpleasant things that subsequently happened between 1939 and 1945. :eek: [/QUOTE] Straight Dope In-Joke; Picket the new Indiana Jones movie with signs saying “Indy is a War Criminal”. When asked to explain, cite the above. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Autumn\_Almanac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d26b3c/32.png) [@Autumn\_Almanac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autumn_Almanac)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/296 "2008-05-22T18:49:01Z")
[QUOTE=Martini Enfield] If he hadn’t interfered with the Ark being loaded onto the German aircraft, it would have been flown back to Berlin and opened in front of Hitler- which would, of course, have released the spirits and the face-melting and the death to everyone in the room- including Hitler. [/QUOTE] Like **Illuminatiprimus** said, it’s hardly clear exactly how the Ark works. Maybe Hitler knew how to wield the Ark safely. Or maybe he would have just had test subjects keep opening it until someone didn’t die, and learned how to use it that way. ---
**Author:** ![davidw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@davidw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidw)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/297 "2008-05-22T19:24:25Z")
[QUOTE=Autumn Almanac] Like **Illuminatiprimus** said, it’s hardly clear exactly how the Ark works. Maybe Hitler knew how to wield the Ark safely. Or maybe he would have just had test subjects keep opening it until someone didn’t die, and learned how to use it that way. [/QUOTE] Imagine his chagrin when it only works for Jews. ---
**Author:** ![davidw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@davidw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidw)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/298 "2008-05-22T19:26:49Z")
Speaking of the Indiana Jones flicks, I just watched Temple of Doom over the weekend, and there was something that really bothered me. There was no reason for Indy to take Willie Scott with him. He could have left her in Shanghai instead of bringing her on the plane with him. Or, if he decided things were unsafe for her in Shanghai, then once they reached the Indian village, he could have just sent her along to Delhi while he went to retrieve the stones. Why bring her along? ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/299 "2008-05-22T19:33:52Z")
[QUOTE=Illuminatiprimus] IIRC it was noon when the sun hit the map room, so they just got there for a little before then. Also Tannis is in Eqypt in the region where seasons don’t very a great deal, so the day of the year probably didn’t make a difference to the position of the sun. [/QUOTE] Actually, there was a fairly large grid of holes, and Indy consulted his handy Ark of the Covenant for Dummies handbook (his notebook) before selecting which hole to put the staff in, so presumably there was a different one for each day. > [@davidw](#): > > Speaking of the Indiana Jones flicks, I just watched Temple of Doom over the weekend, and there was something that really bothered me. There was no reason for Indy to take Willie Scott with him. He could have left her in Shanghai instead of bringing her on the plane with him. Or, if he decided things were unsafe for her in Shanghai, then once they reached the Indian village, he could have just sent her along to Delhi while he went to retrieve the stones. Why bring her along? [Zapp Brannigan voice]What are you, gay?[/ZBv] ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/300 "2008-05-22T20:12:22Z")
[QUOTE=garygnu] And the characters in the movie know this information… how? A lot of movies’ plots fall apart with 20/20 hindsight. [/QUOTE] RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK ACT I, SCENE 1-Prologue Characters: Adolph Hitler Nazi Archeologist Nazi Archeologist: Mein Fuehrer! We have evidence that will lead us to the Ark of the Covenant. This is the box that contains the power of God that, when used, destroys the enemies of the Jews! Should we go get it and use it? Hitler: \ No, maybe we better not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548.md?page=16)