# Top Five Brutally Bad Plotholes in Quality Movies: Let's Compile a List **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 8, 2008, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548 "2008-05-08T11:29:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/41 "2008-05-08T17:03:48Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] šŸ˜• But, _Die Hard 2_ **is** obvious crap from crap. [/QUOTE] Good God yes. Horrible movie from beginning to end. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/42 "2008-05-08T17:05:52Z")
[QUOTE=Å vejk] In the first Godfather movie (as in the book), I have always found the abrupt character change that Michael Corleone goes through (from a war hero who doesnā€™t want to have anything to do with the family business to someone intent on destroying Sollozo the Turk and McWhatshisface and taking charge in the family business) not very believable. Itā€™s not really a plothole, I guess, but still something that strikes me as odd every time I see that movie. [/QUOTE] Itā€™s been awhile since Iā€™ve seen it, but didnā€™t Michaelā€™s outlook change after Vito was shot? ā€œMy name is Michael Corleone. You tried to kill my father. Prepare to die.ā€ ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/43 "2008-05-08T17:09:29Z")
[QUOTE=ArchiveGuy] I suspect this film (unseen by me) has always been unfairly maligned. [/QUOTE] I donā€™t think so, and Iā€™ve seen it. If youā€™re sitting there thinking ā€œIf she really kills him this time, sheā€™s going back to jail,ā€ it screws up the movie. It doesnā€™t work dramatically if you expect her to pay the price for a revenge killing. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/44 "2008-05-08T17:15:42Z")
Okay, will someone go ahead and spoil _High Tension_, please? Thatā€™s what weā€™ve got spoiler boxes for, after all. Iā€™ll pick on one of my favorites: in _Silver Streak_, when George gets thrown off the train the first time, he catches a ride with a lovely lady who flies a biplane to get him to the next stop. The pass the train on the way. Then, when they get where theyā€™re going (IIRC, a flight of several hours), and arrive in town to report the murder George witnessed to the police, the trainā€™s already there and is, in fact, on its way _out of the station_. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/45 "2008-05-08T17:17:03Z")
I havenā€™t actually seen _The Bonfire of the Vanities_ (or read the book) but my understanding is that thereā€™s a major plot point in which Sherman McCoy is being accused of a crime and has evidence which would exonerate him but the evidence is not legally admissable. Which makes no sense because thereā€™s virtually no restrictions on evidence for a defendant. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/46 "2008-05-08T17:19:22Z")
[QUOTE=Baldwin] Thereā€™s no scene like that in the movie; I think youā€™re referencing a scene with exactly two officers. Iā€™ll rewatch it tonight, but as I recall it was a plausible scene, given the antogonistā€™s combination of detailed planning, precise timing, and utter ruthlessness. ETA: Even if the scene were implausible, it wouldnā€™t be a plot hole, just hard to swallow. [/QUOTE] Would it go down more easily with a nice Chianti? ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/47 "2008-05-08T17:27:06Z")
[QUOTE=KneadToKnow] Okay, will someone go ahead and spoil _High Tension_, please? Thatā€™s what weā€™ve got spoiler boxes for, after all. [/QUOTE] Iā€™ll do my best. šŸ™‚ The story revolves around a pair of female college students on break to stay with the family of one of them. The visiting girl (Marie)is a lesbian who is in lust with the other(Alex). Late at night a man pulls up in a truck, knocks on the door and proceeds to very brutally murder Alexā€™s family. He then kidnaps Alex and takes off with her in his truck. Marie has managed to escape and hides in the truck with Alex. They are driven around for a while with various ā€œadventuresā€. In the end Marie confronts the killer and proceeds to beat the everloving shit out of him. So far not bad right? Well, this is where it begins to suck. You find out that Marie IS the killer and that she kidnapped her friend. The major problem with this is the truck. There was no truck when they arrived so where did it come from? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/48 "2008-05-08T17:29:52Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] He could have just lied about where/why he was going. [/QUOTE] He could have, but the operators watch what theyā€™re doing, and can recognize the presence of agents near their people. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/49 "2008-05-08T17:30:54Z")
[QUOTE=KneadToKnow] Okay, will someone go ahead and spoil _High Tension_, please? Thatā€™s what weā€™ve got spoiler boxes for, after all. [spoiler]The basic plot is that a young woman is staying at the home of her best friendā€™s family when a serial killer breaks into the home, murders the other girlā€™s family and kidnaps the girl. The protagonist (who was unseen by the killer during the murders) sneaks into the back of the kilerā€™s truck, and basically, the rest of the movie involves the protagonist stealthily following the killer as he goes on his rampaging adventures, looking for an opportunity to rescue her friend. The twistā€¦ The killer is really the protagonist. She has a split personality. Sheā€™s in love with her friend. There are a number of logical problems with this, but the most glaring one is the truck itself. If the killer and the truck are imaginary, then how does half the movie take place in an imaginary truck. IIRC, thereā€™s even a chase involving the protagonist _chasing_ the truck. That aspect is what gave rise to Ebertā€™s line about the movie literally driving a truck through the plot hole.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/50 "2008-05-08T17:33:15Z")
My favorite gigantic plot-hole is in the movie **E.T. - the Extra-Terrestrial** : The movie opens with several E.T.'s exploring the California woodlands, and the protagonist E.T. being left behind. We see from his P.O.V. the spaceship pulling away, hovering ten feet above him - so close, yet just out of his reach. Later on in the movie, E.T. manages to levitate himself, Elliot & Elliotā€™s bike. They take a magical bike ride miles above the woods. Elliot looks down and sees that the ground is miles below them. Later still, E.T. is similarly able to levitate himself, Elliot, Elliotā€™s brother & half the kids in the neighborhood (& their bikes) in a similar manner. Soā€¦E.T. can makes himself (and others) fly, WHY THE HELL DIDN"T HE JUST FLY TO UP TO DEPARTING UFO IN THE FIRST PLACE? The damn thing was only ten feet above him fā€™rcrissake! ---
**Author:** ![Sweetums](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Sweetums](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweetums)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/51 "2008-05-08T17:41:00Z")
[QUOTE=Robot Arm] On the subject of _Die Hard 2_, thereā€™s a different problem. The first movie kicked ass; lone hero trapped alone with some exceptional, bad-ass thieves. The second movie tried to recreate the whole lone-hero angle by having all the other good guys be complete morons. McClain catches the ā€œluggage thievesā€, McClain realizes thereā€™s going to be trouble, McClain predicts the ambush, McClain tries to wave off the doomed airliner, McClain finds the bad guys hideout; butting heads with the airport police and staff at every turn. It hurts a movie to rely on smart people doing so many stupid things. [/QUOTE] ``` Die Hard is one of those movies, much like Speed 2, that rely on the audience knowing as little as possible about how the world works. The aforementioned transmitter problem, the lighter flame following a fuel trail, and the fact that automatic weapons don't work firing blanks without an adapter, and thus couldn't switch back and forth just by changing magazines. ``` All of this and more points to the fact that the movie is about as much a fantasy as Star Wars. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/52 "2008-05-08T17:44:01Z")
Thanks, spoilers! (I watched _Color of Night_ just because someone said it was so bad it had to be seen to be believed. I donā€™t want to do that again.) ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/53 "2008-05-08T17:46:26Z")
[QUOTE=Antinor01] Iā€™ll do my best. šŸ™‚ The story revolves around a pair of female college students on break to stay with the family of one of them. The visiting girl (Marie)is a lesbian who is in lust with the other(Alex). Late at night a man pulls up in a truck, knocks on the door and proceeds to very brutally murder Alexā€™s family. He then kidnaps Alex and takes off with her in his truck. Marie has managed to escape and hides in the truck with Alex. They are driven around for a while with various ā€œadventuresā€. In the end Marie confronts the killer and proceeds to beat the everloving shit out of him. So far not bad right? Well, this is where it begins to suck. You find out that Marie IS the killer and that she kidnapped her friend. The major problem with this is the truck. There was no truck when they arrived so where did it come from? [/QUOTE] I fear no spoilers, since I have no inclination to ever see the movie, so Iā€™ll ask for clarification: [spoiler] Someone had to be driving the truck, and later get beaten by Marie, right? Was he an accomplice, and she decided to let him take the fall? Was he just some poor schmuckā€“a delivery guy or somethingā€“who happened to have a psycho and a clueless kidnapee stow away in his truck when he stopped to check a map, or piss, or some such thing? Was he, against all odds, _another_ murderer who just happened to be parked nearby? Do they ever actually show the guy doing anything that would reveal his motivations? šŸ˜• [/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/54 "2008-05-08T17:48:21Z")
[QUOTE=Balance] I fear no spoilers, since I have no inclination to ever see the movie, so Iā€™ll ask for clarification: [spoiler] Someone had to be driving the truck, and later get beaten by Marie, right? Was he an accomplice, and she decided to let him take the fall? Was he just some poor schmuckā€“a delivery guy or somethingā€“who happened to have a psycho and a clueless kidnapee stow away in his truck when he stopped to check a map, or piss, or some such thing? Was he, against all odds, _another_ murderer who just happened to be parked nearby? Do they ever actually show the guy doing anything that would reveal his motivations? šŸ˜• [/spoiler] [/QUOTE] the guy didnā€™t exist. He was the product of Marieā€™s imagination. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/55 "2008-05-08T17:51:15Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] He could have just lied about where/why he was going. [/QUOTE] Except that they explicitly and repeatedly showed the operator monitoring their situations throughout the movie. So they should have known what he was doing. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/56 "2008-05-08T17:55:27Z")
> [@](#): > > A rather famous plot hole is in both the 1956 and 1978 versions of Invasion of the Body Snatchers (not sure about the third and fourth versions): near the end, when the couple are hiding, thereā€™s no logical reason why there would have been a pod there. That one has bothered me for years. Actually, in the original, itā€™s not even clear that thereā€™s a pod ā€“ Kevin McCarthy goes away, and when he comes back, his girlfriend has fallen asleep and itā€™s as if her human body has been ā€œtaken overā€ without the necessity of a pod. It just makes no sense. I donā€™t actuallt recall anything like this in the 1978 remake, but that had its own inconsistency ā€“ at first, the plant seeds/spores/whateve are tiny and not noticeable and just drift down to earth. At the end, the plants need big pods that have to be shipped by truck everywhrere. Why the change? By the way, I donā€™t see a problem with **The Matrix** ā€“ Joe Pantalianoā€™s character could have contacted Agent Smith during some regular mission, although we donā€™t get to see the rest of it on camera. There is, I agree, no way he couldā€™ve done this if he had to go in by himself, but it wouldā€™ve been possible to do it if your team broke up and you were all on separate little missions. Hereā€™s another thing thatā€™s buggeed me for years. Itā€™s not a plot hole, but it still annoys me. **The Seventh Voyage of Sinbad** ā€“ 1959 Harryhausen film. Sinbad gets captured by the Cyclops and Sokourah the magician won;t help. He sewars the other men to silence and pulls out the shrunken Princess Parisa, whoā€™s only 6 inches tall. He puts atop the cage, and she undoes the latch. ā€œIt is done!ā€ she shouts Sinbad immediately throws open the lid from inside. Thereā€™s a good chance that Parisa is still standing on the lid. Sinbad flips it up, and she goes sailing off for ten feet or so, the falls to her death. Sinbad and his men leave Sokourah on the island, go back to their ship, and, as they canā€™t return to Baghdad (How did they get their ship all the way up the river to Baghdad? ) , they take up pirating or being seagoing mercenaries. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/57 "2008-05-08T17:55:31Z")
[QUOTE=fiddlesticks] But that was an awesome bike, man! He couldnā€™t leave it behind! šŸ˜ƒ [/QUOTE] Then why did he swap it for a BSA, IIRC, for the jump? Still an awesome bike and much more suited for motocross than a BMW. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/58 "2008-05-08T17:58:47Z")
I skimmed the thread in my excitement for my favorite, so I donā€™t THINK anybody beat me - but if the framing device for **Citizen Kane** is ā€œwhat is Rosebud?ā€ - who heard Kane say the word? He died alone. Which is partly the point. ---
**Author:** ![happywaffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ee59a6/32.png) [@happywaffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happywaffle)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/59 "2008-05-08T18:09:15Z")
[QUOTE=Zsofia] I skimmed the thread in my excitement for my favorite, so I donā€™t THINK anybody beat me - but if the framing device for **Citizen Kane** is ā€œwhat is Rosebud?ā€ - who heard Kane say the word? He died alone. Which is partly the point. [/QUOTE] Good question. You immediately see a nurse enter the room in the shattered glass, though, so the implication might have been that she was standing at the doorway or something. ---
**Author:** ![happywaffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ee59a6/32.png) [@happywaffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happywaffle)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548/60 "2008-05-08T18:19:38Z")
I was watching ā€œSpeed,ā€ which is a damn good movie, with someone whoā€™d never seen it before. Early on, Keanu has gotten the whole 50-mph challenge from Dennis Hopper, locates the bus, and runs alongside, screaming for it to stop. It doesnā€™t, accelerates to 50 mph, and the chase is on. My friend suddenly said, ā€œWhy didnā€™t he just shoot the tires out?ā€ I have never enjoyed that movie since. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-five-brutally-bad-plotholes-in-quality-movies-lets-compile-a-list/448548.md?page=4)