# Top Gun (1986) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 28, 2006, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-gun-1986/342013 "2006-01-28T21:14:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2006, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-gun-1986/342013/1 "2006-01-28T21:14:12Z")
Can you believe this film is 20 years old? Wow. _Top Gun_ is a jingoistic recruitment film. ‘Rah, rah! We rawk!’ But still it holds a special place for me. See, I grew up in the shadow of NAS Miramar. I spent many summer days at the base pool. Dad was a pilot. (Civilian, under the G.I. Bill. He was Combat Aircrew in Korea, and got into surface warfare/Communications/ASW after he got his commission.) Flying is ‘in my blood’, as it were. F-14s flew over my school, and S-3s were a favourite site as I sailed at the Navy Sailing Club. Were it not for an unfortunate skiing accident in high school, I would have become a Naval Aviator. Consider also the times. We’d lost in Vietnam. In the 1970s the economy was in a shambles. Hostages had been taken in Iran. The Cold War was still on. By the mid-1980s we needed a ‘shot in the arm’. Yes, _Top Gun_ is a superficial film filled with clichés. But it was one of the things that made us feel good about ourselves. I’d been wearing flight jackets and Aviator shades since I was a kid. (My first flight jacket was a WEP jacket given to my mom to give to me by an F-4 pilot at Miramar.) After _Top Gun_ everyone was wearing flight jackets and aviator shades! Tom Cruise rides a sportbike. Now, sportbikes didn’t need this film to become popular. But it certainly didn’t hurt. _Top Gun_ reminds me of good times. I had a good job (on flight test programmes at Edwards AFB), drove a little Porsche and an MGB, was young with my whole life ahead of me… Terrorism was far away. Sure, we had a Cowboy in the Oval Office. Gangs were an ever-increasing problem. Scandals abounded. But for me it was fun, fun, fun in the Southern California sun. I had a very happy childhood, and the scenes of San Diego in the film reminded me of them. Now, about the film. There I was, in my early-to-mid-20s, a pilot’s license in my wallet, working around aircraft, and excited to see a film sure to appeal to a plane-crazy ‘Navy Brat’. An F-5 appears on the screen. ‘Ah ha!’ I thought, ‘I know all about “Top Gun”. That’s a VF-126 Aggressor aircraft. The filmmakers want us to think it’s a Bad Guy. But I know better. It’s an exercise.’ Whoops. My smugness was unfounded. In the film the F-5 really _was_ a Bad Guy! You probably know from my other posts that I frown upon such inaccuracies. But I liked the film. F-14s, man! Maybe my second-all-time-favourite aircraft! Great flying, and great scenery. The love story? Eh. Very contrived. And I wanted Kelly McGillis to wash her face. Too much make-up in several scenes. ‘Maverick’s’ father’s ‘official’ status following Mav’s career was a stretch. The movie follows a predictable pattern. But so what? It’s entertainment. I’ve seen a lot of films that fail in that respect. The style was, for the time, refreshing. I remember watching a lot of films when I was growing up that didn’t look as good. It’s a very ‘clean’ looking film. _Top Gun_ was an exciting well shot movie. Even today I can feel the energy. I can overlook such flaws as the predictable story and the unbelievable subplots. I still use such phrases as ‘Geez, I crack myself up’ and ‘Great shot! I should be a photographer.’ And it has planes in it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2006, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-gun-1986/342013/2 "2006-01-28T21:28:09Z")
First time I had surround sound, it was a mix video of different scenes highlighting the WOWIE factor of surround from whatever manufacturor I had purchased the stuff from. The ZOOooooooOOOOOoooom WHOOOOSH!!! of the **Top Gun** jets was a major crowd pleaser at my home. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2006, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-gun-1986/342013/3 "2006-01-28T21:57:09Z")
“I feel the need…the need for speed!” Yeah, good times. I really, really want to hate this movie. Actually, I do hate this movie, mainly because of the ridiculous, dick-swinging dialogue and Tony Scott’s typically boombastic direction. But there’s some pretty good flying sequences, involving aircraft types that don’t seem to turn up in that many films. I snickered at the F-5 ‘MiGs’ too. It would have been great if the producers could have rounded up, say, a couple of MiG-21s for the shoot, but I’m not sure such would have even been available in the West at the time. I don’t buy the tactics, though. Dogfighting in F-14s? Wouldn’t it be dueling AAMs from miles away? And is it realistic that Michael Ironside in his antiquated Skyhawk would have any kind of chance against a Tomcat? I’m just askin’. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2006, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-gun-1986/342013/4 "2006-01-28T22:01:47Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > And is it realistic that Michael Ironside in his antiquated Skyhawk would have any kind of chance against a Tomcat? I’m just askin’. Agressor squadrons did and do indeed fly ‘antiquated’ A-4s and F-5s – and score very well against the F-14 drivers. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2006, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-gun-1986/342013/5 "2006-01-28T22:05:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Agressor squadrons did and do indeed fly ‘antiquated’ A-4s and F-5s – and score very well against the F-14 drivers. OK, as I said, I was just askin’. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2006, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-gun-1986/342013/6 "2006-01-28T22:56:03Z")
Gay porn for a mainstream audience. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2006, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-gun-1986/342013/7 "2006-01-28T23:07:10Z")
Wasn’t Kelly McGillis’ character described as an astrophysicist? I never understood what she’d be doing at that school. And it seemed to me that they never photographed her standing next to Tom Cruise, because of the height difference. (For example, in the elevator, she was leaning against the wall, and in the classroom, he was seated.) ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2006, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-gun-1986/342013/8 "2006-01-28T23:25:14Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > I don’t buy the tactics, though. Dogfighting in F-14s? Wouldn’t it be dueling AAMs from miles away? And is it realistic that Michael Ironside in his antiquated Skyhawk would have any kind of chance against a Tomcat? I’m just askin’. In theory, an F-14 COULD just knock down the opponents from 80+ miles out, but that doesn’t always happen. They really do teach a few of the pilots how to be dogfighters for the rare occasion where it becomes an issue. In the movie, what happens is Maverick’s fire control system malfunctions, so he can’t use his missiles. Thus, he has to use all that training he spent most of the movie aquiring. IIRC, in the Air Force, they do the opposite and teach a few pilots how to most effectively win long-range missile engagements. There has been at least one pilot who managed to go to both schools (IIRC, he started in the Navy, went to Top Gun, then transfered to Air Force and went to their own special school). And has been said before, yeah, a good pilot can win in a skyhawk. At the ranges they’re training to fight in, planes like the Skyhawk would actually have a number of distinct advantages (Small profile, high maneuverability). For a while the Navy and Marines even flew stripped-down F-16s as aggressors (these were apparantly faster and more agile than their Air Force counterparts since they didn’t have any missile hardpoints or guns to slow them down, not being intended to ever actually be used in combat except possibly as a recon platform) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2006, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-gun-1986/342013/9 "2006-01-28T23:55:00Z")
Movie had a bitchin’ soundtrack, too. The logic of the big crisis still eludes me, though. What kind of ship was disabled and why would anyone attack it, knowing full well that doing so is an act of war? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2006, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-gun-1986/342013/10 "2006-01-28T23:59:07Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Gay porn for a mainstream audience. I’m glad you said it before I did. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-gun-1986/342013/11 "2006-01-29T00:15:55Z")
In a film called “Sleep with Me,” there’s a hilarious dialogue about the gay subtext in Top Gun. You can read it [here](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111218/quotes). ---
**Author:** ![Amp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Amp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amp)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-gun-1986/342013/12 "2006-01-29T00:18:09Z")
Never seen the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-gun-1986/342013/13 "2006-01-29T00:51:45Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > I don’t buy the tactics, though. Dogfighting in F-14s? Wouldn’t it be dueling AAMs from miles away? And is it realistic that Michael Ironside in his antiquated Skyhawk would have any kind of chance against a Tomcat? I’m just askin’. In theory, an F-14 COULD just knock down the opponents from 80+ miles out, but that doesn’t always happen. They really do teach a few of the pilots how to be dogfighters for the rare occasion where it becomes an issue. In the movie, what happens is Maverick’s fire control system malfunctions, so he can’t use his missiles. Thus, he has to use all that training he spent most of the movie aquiring. IIRC, in the Air Force, they do the opposite and teach a few pilots how to most effectively win long-range missile engagements. There has been at least one pilot who managed to go to both schools (IIRC, he started in the Navy, went to Top Gun, then transfered to Air Force and went to their own special school). And has been said before, yeah, a good pilot can win in a skyhawk. At the ranges they’re training to fight in, planes like the Skyhawk would actually have a number of distinct advantages (Small profile, high maneuverability). For a while the Navy and Marines even flew stripped-down F-16s as aggressors (these were apparantly faster and more agile than their Air Force counterparts since they didn’t have any missile hardpoints or guns to slow them down, not being intended to ever actually be used in combat except possibly as a recon platform) ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-gun-1986/342013/14 "2006-01-29T00:55:27Z")
> [@Dewey Finn](#): > > In a film called “Sleep with Me,” there’s a hilarious dialogue about the gay subtext in Top Gun. You can read it [here](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111218/quotes). While not involving any gay subtexts, the novelization of the Wing Commander movie includes two of the pilots (Christopher “Maverick” Blair and Lt. Commander “Angel” Devereax(sp?)) discussing the origins of his callsign (he allways did everything by the book, followed orders, etc, so of course was nicknamed “Maverick”). ---
**Author:** ![Rufus\_Xavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-gun-1986/342013/15 "2006-01-29T00:55:58Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > “I feel the need…the need for speed!” This was a big catch phrase of ours in college, except we substituted the word “weed” for “speed.” ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-gun-1986/342013/16 "2006-01-29T01:08:57Z")
> [@Dewey Finn](#): > > gay subtext in Top Gun Subtext? Mary, that’s _text_. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-gun-1986/342013/17 "2006-01-29T01:13:17Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Gay porn for a mainstream audience. Ha! At one of the press functions for **Kiss Kiss Bang Bang** one of the reporters asked Kilmer if he’d ever played a gay character before and he responded, “You mean besides Iceman?” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-gun-1986/342013/18 "2006-01-29T02:16:54Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > Ha! At one of the press functions for **Kiss Kiss Bang Bang** one of the reporters asked Kilmer if he’d ever played a gay character before and he responded, “You mean besides Iceman?” Hey, you guys are dangerous! ---
**Author:** ![zagloba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/977dab/32.png) [@zagloba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zagloba)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-gun-1986/342013/19 "2006-01-29T02:16:57Z")
One of my high school classmates went to the Naval Academy, but I lost track of him once we graduated in 1977. Saw him again for the first time at our 20 year reunion. Turns out he had been an F14 pilot on the carrier they used when filming _Top Gun_. He is briefly visible in the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-gun-1986/342013/20 "2006-01-29T02:37:03Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > I don’t buy the tactics, though. Dogfighting in F-14s? Wouldn’t it be dueling AAMs from miles away? And is it realistic that Michael Ironside in his antiquated Skyhawk would have any kind of chance against a Tomcat? I’m just askin’. For the California navy Miramar was the ACM/Top Gun school , but for the Atlantic navy , it was NAS Oceana. Back in the nineties , the family went on a vacation down to Virginia Beach , just down the road from Oceana and for the first couple of days , the weather was grey , cloudy and overcast with rain looming. Then on Wednesday of that week ,the sun finally came out and I was down at the beach doing some boogie boarding and I notice a SeaLamps tooling around and then a noise, more of a whistle actually. Then the religious sight , a section of Toms chasing some scooters and they were beating up on em big time, it was Top Gun come to life. But the SkyHawks , Tigers, and Falcons are used mainly for Disimilar air combat maneuvering , they represent small , hard to see ,and a means to think about aircombat thats not the same as tomcats going head to head against each other. Declan [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-gun-1986/342013.md?page=2)