# Top notch female martial artist versus 6' 4'', 250 pound man -- Who wins? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 2, 2006, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-notch-female-martial-artist-versus-6-4-250-pound-man-who-wins/375011 "2006-10-02T17:58:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-notch-female-martial-artist-versus-6-4-250-pound-man-who-wins/375011/161 "2013-04-19T06:37:26Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Sorry, that’s a bad link. Try [spoiler] [this one.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRawFZ5Cg2A&search=karate+pimp) [/spoiler] Sorry, but I’m not going to watch anything from a site that describes itself as _“Extreme Porn and Gore Movies”_ You should label that shit and adhere to the double click rule. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-notch-female-martial-artist-versus-6-4-250-pound-man-who-wins/375011/162 "2013-04-19T08:37:20Z")
> [@chacoguy](#): > > Sorry, but I’m not going to watch anything from a site that describes itself as _“Extreme Porn and Gore Movies”_ You should label that shit and adhere to the double click rule. Seven years, dude. Bit late to be scolding him. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-notch-female-martial-artist-versus-6-4-250-pound-man-who-wins/375011/163 "2013-04-19T13:00:44Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Seven years, dude. Bit late to be scolding him. The content’s no longer there, so nothing to worry about now. ---
**Author:** ![Saraya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Saraya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saraya)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-notch-female-martial-artist-versus-6-4-250-pound-man-who-wins/375011/164 "2013-04-19T13:23:13Z")
> [@LH75](#): > > while i realize that this is just anecdotal, i once saw an average 5’8"-5’10" maybe 175 lbs sized m.a. fighter (sorry, i do not know what discipline) throw a very stylish roundhouse kick at the head of a guy just like guy number two in this guestion. the big, in shape guy stepped inside the kick and grabbed the m.a. guy’s ankle and continuing along with the motion of the kick, swung him up off his feet and into a phone booth with considerable force. outcome? the big guy didn’t have a scratch, the m.a. guy was taken away in an ambulance. due the the number of witnesses, the police on the scene did not arrest the big guy. This is primarily because martial arts are just that, an art. They don’t translate well into real world situations, especially when the tactics used in a street fight obviously do not conform to any rule set. And similarly this is the problem the woman faces if she picks on some guy at random. Technique wise, she needs to either make a signficant successful strike first, or catch the person off guard. Power and mass wise, she is simply limited. The one thing female self defense classes do not teach (that I’ve ever seen), is to first accept reality, second don’t buy into the MMA hype. If a man gets a hold of you, there’s a good chance you’re fu\*\*ed; so don’t mouth off unnecessarily and think you can pull a Gracie move to get yourself free. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-notch-female-martial-artist-versus-6-4-250-pound-man-who-wins/375011/165 "2013-04-19T14:26:37Z")
I know it’s a zombie, but I read it regardless, and my god is post #115 obnoxious. Was that guy king of sneakbrags or what? From top to bottom, it’s a tale of how badass he and his wife are, a spiel that wouldn’t be out of place on a bodybuilding forum, cloaked in a rich glaze of phony nonchalance. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-notch-female-martial-artist-versus-6-4-250-pound-man-who-wins/375011/166 "2013-04-19T18:57:15Z")
The idea that woman who have done some training become magically stronger than boys has always irritated me. So for the record: Here is a video of Lucia Rijker, at the moment of shooting the strongest female boxer and kickboxer (absolute best in the world in several disciplines should satisfy ‘top notch’ ) vs. some male kickboxer in her weightclass. It is what I believe the closest we’re ever going to get to scenario 4 from the OP. It is the only official fight she ever lost. Sorry for the crappy quality. https://www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x5klgf One could speculate what a heavier male could do. But even here the difference in strength is obvious. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Surb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@The\_Surb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Surb)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-notch-female-martial-artist-versus-6-4-250-pound-man-who-wins/375011/167 "2013-04-19T20:11:17Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > The content’s no longer there, so nothing to worry about now. There is for me. That link goes to Extreme Porn and Gore Movies. Not that I have a problem with it. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-notch-female-martial-artist-versus-6-4-250-pound-man-who-wins/375011/168 "2013-04-19T20:31:32Z")
> [@The\_Surb](#): > > There is for me. That link goes to Extreme Porn and Gore Movies. > > Not that I have a problem with it. Huh. It went to Nowheresville for me. Well, I two-clicked it for anyone who’s feeling extremely porny and gory ---
**Author:** ![Morsontologica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bcef8e/32.png) [@Morsontologica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morsontologica)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-notch-female-martial-artist-versus-6-4-250-pound-man-who-wins/375011/169 "2013-04-20T02:22:36Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Sorry, that is choreographed and required both parties to be in on it. Why are you so sure of yourself, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-notch-female-martial-artist-versus-6-4-250-pound-man-who-wins/375011/170 "2013-04-20T02:30:55Z")
> [@Morsontologica](#): > > Why are you so sure of yourself, exactly? You can see the guy lifting the woman up during the first part of the move. Maneuvers like that can’t happen without cooperation. They’re the realm of movies and professional wrestling. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-notch-female-martial-artist-versus-6-4-250-pound-man-who-wins/375011/171 "2013-04-20T02:35:22Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > I know it’s a zombie, but I read it regardless, and my god is post #115 obnoxious. Was that guy king of sneakbrags or what? From top to bottom, it’s a tale of how badass he and his wife are, a spiel that wouldn’t be out of place on a bodybuilding forum, cloaked in a rich glaze of phony nonchalance. I read it as Scylla is married to Black Widow from The Avengers. ---
**Author:** ![Chilliwack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e79b87/32.png) [@Chilliwack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chilliwack)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-notch-female-martial-artist-versus-6-4-250-pound-man-who-wins/375011/172 "2013-04-20T02:54:57Z")
> [@Morsontologica](#): > > Why are you so sure of yourself, exactly? Having trained in less elaborate take-downs, I can say that if you have practiced it together, you get thrown cleanly. When the throwee does not know the path of least resistance, things get very snappy and ouchy, and while the throwee DOES go down, they don’t go down with the flow of the thrower. Did I explain that well enough? ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-notch-female-martial-artist-versus-6-4-250-pound-man-who-wins/375011/173 "2013-04-20T03:38:37Z")
A 5’7", 140 lb male (therefore with much more lean mass and upper body strength than a female athlete of the same size) top martial artist would have little chance against any reasonably quick 6’4", 250 lb dude. Size and strength are just about everything in a real fight. Speed and skill only help you out when you’re trying to defend and escape a larger opponent. ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-notch-female-martial-artist-versus-6-4-250-pound-man-who-wins/375011/174 "2013-04-20T03:54:27Z")
God, how did I know that the replies would immediately parrot that old “the fight will go to the ground” chestnut? Similar threads have been posted before, and I am always amused by the assumption that the smaller but more trained fighter, regardless of sex, will lose to the bigger but untrained fighter. [When MMA fighter Roger Huerta took on gigantic pro football player Rashad Bobino](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9JpeKKBScA), the fight did indeed “go to the ground”… in the sense that 10 seconds into it Bobina was laid out on the pavement after the much smaller Huerta kicked his head in. And Roger Huerta isn’t even an especially successful MMA fighter! And yes, pedants, I know Huerta obviously isn’t a woman. That’s not my point. My point is, that in an unchoreographed, no holds barred street fight, the pro took out the bigger guy \*embarrassingly \*quickly. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-notch-female-martial-artist-versus-6-4-250-pound-man-who-wins/375011/175 "2013-04-20T05:16:24Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > God, how did I know that the replies would immediately parrot that old “the fight will go to the ground” chestnut? > > Similar threads have been posted before, and I am always amused by the assumption that the smaller but more trained fighter, regardless of sex, will lose to the bigger but untrained fighter. [When MMA fighter Roger Huerta took on gigantic pro football player Rashad Bobino](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9JpeKKBScA), the fight did indeed “go to the ground”… in the sense that 10 seconds into it Bobina was laid out on the pavement after the much smaller Huerta kicked his head in. Um, for all that video shows, Huerta could have hit the guy from behind with a pipe. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-notch-female-martial-artist-versus-6-4-250-pound-man-who-wins/375011/176 "2013-04-20T06:10:15Z")
Woman wins 1 and 2, guy wins 3 and 4. And I don’t believe it’s even a contest in all four fights. I’m 6’0 and 220 pounds and while I’ve never fought a girl in earnest I have sparred and come up short against skilled girls of much smaller size. And I’m not especially wussy, I always held my own against other guys in high school. Size doesn’t mean anything if you don’t know what you’re doing. What’s an unskilled 250 pounder going to do? Grab her? She knows how to get out of simple holds. Punch her? assuming he has no skills, he’s damn slow and his punches lack power. Martial arts teach you how to properly throw a punch and it is a force multiplier. It also teaches you where to hit. I’d rather take a haymaker from a big guy without skills than a straight jab to my Adam’s apple from a skilled girl. The second guy would do better, but still lose, because no matter how much less athletic or weaker a girl is, she’s taken punches if she’s a martial artist. A regular guy probably hasn’t. He’ll stick with her for quite awhile, being in good shape, but as soon as she lands a good one in a weak spot, he’s going to want to be just about anywhere else. THe third guy probably wins, if only because I’ve read newspaper stories about female cops trying to take down thugs alone. It often goes bad for the girl,as in her face gets broken. Criminals may not be skilled at martial arts, but they’ve learned through trial and error what works and what doesn’t in a fight and they don’t play by Marques of Queensbury rules. Martial artists often oversell skill, but skill has a very real effect in a fight. Just ask the Gracies. Or your average alligator handler. Those guys can master alligators extremely quickly despite a huge strength and speed disparity. Likewise, your average unskilled brawler has only one or two predictable attacks(grabbing and wild swinging). A lady with skill should be ready for both, and if she’s used to taking a hit and doesn’t let the pain stop her she should wreck him nicely. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-notch-female-martial-artist-versus-6-4-250-pound-man-who-wins/375011/177 "2013-04-20T06:21:43Z")
Heck, I’ll make this simple. Female martial artist can break a wooden board with all four of her limbs. Big 250 pound guy can only break his hand. Who hits harder? ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-notch-female-martial-artist-versus-6-4-250-pound-man-who-wins/375011/178 "2013-04-20T19:45:03Z")
Quite often in these discussions, the fact that a brawler may well be a low level boxer, has high tolerance to pain is overlooked, fact is that Boxing is a martial art and anyone used to it has a huge advantage over someone who has not - the brawler is highly likely to overwhelm our female protagonist. For the person in reasonable shape, it really depends how this was done - certain sports allow for good control of movement and balance, the female needs to get this out of the way very quickly before he can use his size. If she is the aggressor then she has a chance, but if she is not, then she is finished. Only chance for the couch potato is to get the first one in, the problem for her is that if he does then she may well be toast. Trained black belt does not equate to street fighting, or brawling or some nice clear scenario, couch potato picks up a few bits of large furniture and hurls it at her she will have difficulty keeping out the way, only has to strike a glancing blow and thats going to be enough time to make the final move. ---
**Author:** ![Morsontologica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bcef8e/32.png) [@Morsontologica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morsontologica)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-notch-female-martial-artist-versus-6-4-250-pound-man-who-wins/375011/179 "2013-04-20T21:26:22Z")
> [@Chilliwack](#): > > Having trained in less elaborate take-downs, I can say that if you have practiced it together, you get thrown cleanly. When the throwee does not know the path of least resistance, things get very snappy and ouchy, and while the throwee DOES go down, they don’t go down with the flow of the thrower. > > Did I explain that well enough? In summary… You said it was fake and then you told me that you just ‘know’. You declared that these individuals trained together. Please provide more information to verify this. Your own individual training doesn’t relate to the counter maneuver in question, as the truth of the information is up to interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![Morsontologica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bcef8e/32.png) [@Morsontologica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morsontologica)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-notch-female-martial-artist-versus-6-4-250-pound-man-who-wins/375011/180 "2013-04-20T21:29:13Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > You can see the guy lifting the woman up during the first part of the move. Maneuvers like that can’t happen without cooperation. They’re the realm of movies and professional wrestling. Its very possible. I’ve seen them done in sparring matches by men of smaller stature. Its rather impressive to see a woman do such a maneuver but to compare to the realm of movies and professional wrestling, such a methaphor is somewhat deragatory and inflamatory. Its better left said, on your part, “IMHO”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-notch-female-martial-artist-versus-6-4-250-pound-man-who-wins/375011.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-notch-female-martial-artist-versus-6-4-250-pound-man-who-wins/375011.md?page=10)