# Top ranking incumbents get the gate in Pennsylvania **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 19, 2006, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-ranking-incumbents-get-the-gate-in-pennsylvania/357410 "2006-05-19T15:26:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2006, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-ranking-incumbents-get-the-gate-in-pennsylvania/357410/21 "2006-05-21T05:36:29Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > All I can say is, I hope it is part of a national trend. Throw the bums out, and start fresh. I have a certain amount of mean glee over the results of our local primary election. Two years ago, the incumbent mayor got screwed by the local Democratic party. This lady was a great mayor, one of the most popular we’ve had in a good long while. i don’t know what went on behind the scenes, but the election next year she wasn’t even nominated as a candidate by the Dems. Again, I don’t know what happened, but I do know she was very upset and dissapointed by it. (She’d have been a shoe-in for re-election.) Instead, they put up Mr. Slick\* against a nobody who didn’t even really campaign. Sure enough, Mr. Slick became the Democratic candidate and won the main election by a hair. He let it be known this was his first step to political stardom-- after one term, it was going to be a run for state senate, and then from there, it would be to the US senate, and after that, the sky’s the limit. This year, sure enough, he made his bid for the state senate seat, and was stunned that he came in third. I laughed aloud when I read the results the next morning. \*Not his real name, obviously, but the guy is your stereotypical used car salesman, convinced he’s a combination between Jesus Christ Superstar and JFK. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2006, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-ranking-incumbents-get-the-gate-in-pennsylvania/357410/22 "2006-05-21T10:29:56Z")
I hate to rain on the parade here, especially since we’ve had enough rain, but one of the roaches escaped. Mike Veon, from Beaver Falls which is north of Pittsburgh one his primary, albeit by a rather narrow margin. He’s the only representative who didn’t give back his unvouchered expenses. **Frostillicus** , they did this back in July, and they really were hoping we voters would forget about it. After all, we’ve more important things like jobs and gas prices to worry about. :rolleyes: Pennsylvanians as a whole, too, are a rather conservative lot who don’t like change. Their tactic might have worked, too, but the local liberal newspaper and some television stations continued to bring up the issue. The local conservative newspaper may have done so as well, but I don’t read it, so I can’t speak for it. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2006, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-ranking-incumbents-get-the-gate-in-pennsylvania/357410/23 "2006-05-21T22:46:29Z")
My one significant regret about leaving Philly last fall was that I didn’t get to vote the bums out. I’ve been voting anti-incumbent for a while, and this was a good reason to continue to do so. If the leeches in Harrisburg were too chickenshit to openly raise their pay, they deserved this electoral thrashing. Thanks **Sarge Doors** , **danceswithcats** , **Siege** , and other Pennsy folk for keeping up the good work! Would anybody be interested in joining me in the Royalist party, pressing for the reestablishment of the American monarchy and the dynasty of Joshua Norton? ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-ranking-incumbents-get-the-gate-in-pennsylvania/357410/24 "2006-05-22T22:55:24Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > All I can say is, I hope it is part of a national trend. Throw the bums out, and start fresh. It happened in **Indiana, too.** Senate leader Bob Garton was taken down in the primary. Pollsters said it was because he acted to preserve the lifetime health insurance for former legislators. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-ranking-incumbents-get-the-gate-in-pennsylvania/357410/25 "2006-05-22T23:04:23Z")
First off, let me state that there were very obvious good reasons to throw these legislators out of office. That said… Several posters here have mentioned that they always vote against the incumbent. How can this possibly be a good thing, any more than always voting the party line is a good thing? Why vote against a competent, diligent, and honest politician simply because he/she already holds the office? Seems to me to be a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-ranking-incumbents-get-the-gate-in-pennsylvania/357410/26 "2006-06-05T18:18:00Z")
It’s been a few weeks, but I consider this to be the height of arrogance: [Rep. Pat Fleagle Looks to Run as Democrat in November Election](http://msnbc.msn.com/id/13070939/) > [@](#): > > Even though the primary elections in Pennsylvania were two weeks ago, there doesn’t seem to be a lull in the action. It seems as if things are just starting to heat up. Representative Pat Fleagle lost the republican nomination to Todd Rock in the primary for the 90th District Seat. Now, he is looking to do some maneuvering and run as a democrat in November. > [@](#): > > “Well over half the calls and support I’ve been getting for running has been from democrats and I felt that they are disenfranchised because there is no one on the ballot,” said Fleagle. You know, when you get beat down by your own party that generally means that you’re not wanted. But hey, it’s not over! It’s never over, because what you can do then is switch parties, “enfranchise” some voters, and get a second chance to get your butt kicked. Of COURSE nobody will notice that you’re a fake Democrat! Of COURSE they want you back in office! The Democrats will rally behind your every position, because in spite of the fact that you’re a Republican they’ll blindly pull the D lever and you know it. :rolleyes: Is it any wonder why we’re sick of these guys? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-ranking-incumbents-get-the-gate-in-pennsylvania/357410/27 "2006-06-05T18:24:19Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] Why vote against a competent, diligent, and honest politician simply because he/she already holds the office? [/QUOTE] The attitude you decry is generally held by those who believe there is no such thing. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-ranking-incumbents-get-the-gate-in-pennsylvania/357410/28 "2006-06-05T18:28:36Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] It’s been a few weeks, but I consider this to be the height of arrogance: [Rep. Pat Fleagle Looks to Run as Democrat in November Election](http://msnbc.msn.com/id/13070939/) [/QUOTE] Once again demonstrating that there is very little that separates the parties these days. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-ranking-incumbents-get-the-gate-in-pennsylvania/357410/29 "2006-06-05T22:31:08Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] First off, let me state that there were very obvious good reasons to throw these legislators out of office. That said… Several posters here have mentioned that they always vote against the incumbent. How can this possibly be a good thing, any more than always voting the party line is a good thing? Why vote against a competent, diligent, and honest politician simply because he/she already holds the office? Seems to me to be a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face. [/QUOTE] **Frank** , I’m afraid I missed your very cogent point, here. I hope you’ll let me respond, now. First off, while I did mention that my guiding principle is KBO, I have to admit that in reality it is moderated by several factors. Until 2005 NYS hadn’t had an on-time state budget for 20 years. Because of that I had been adamantly against anyone in either of the State legislature’s houses being returned to Albany, or worse - sent to Washington. This doesn’t mean that there was a general anti-incumbency attitude, however: on the state level, particularly, pork works. People vote for reps who bring money back to their districts. Whether that’s the best use of that money or not. That takes care of the state level. (I’m not going to get into lower-level politics, sorry.) For our US reps, I have some grave reservations with my House Rep - she’s on record as having said that she’ll vote for **any** bill with spending for her district in it. But if her opponent was in the NYS Senate, she got the automatic vote from me, because I had been really pissed that anyone would think that serving in a legislature that couldn’t get a budget passed in a timely manner would reccomend them for **more** responsibilities. In the Senate, most recently I voted for re-election for Sen. Schumer. I think that the way that KBO works for me, is that I have to have a specific reason to vote against the challenger, rather than an automatic ‘send them back’ reaction. So, I guess it’s a bit of an exaggeration. Still, I like the sentiment. If for no other reason than it keeps representatives looking over their shoulders. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-ranking-incumbents-get-the-gate-in-pennsylvania/357410/30 "2006-06-05T23:38:35Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] It’s been a few weeks, but I consider this to be the height of arrogance: [Rep. Pat Fleagle Looks to Run as Democrat in November Election](http://msnbc.msn.com/id/13070939/) [/QUOTE] Wow. Just wow. Some people have no shame. **OtakuLoki** , thank you for the explanation. I understand your point now. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2006, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-ranking-incumbents-get-the-gate-in-pennsylvania/357410/31 "2006-06-06T05:28:16Z")
I’ve got more than 13 ways of spelling ‘Lying Sack of Shit’. Most sound like Fleagle. Get out, you embarrassment to my state. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![if6was9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@if6was9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/if6was9)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2006, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-ranking-incumbents-get-the-gate-in-pennsylvania/357410/32 "2006-06-06T06:52:58Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] It’s been a few weeks, but I consider this to be the height of arrogance: [/QUOTE] That’s not arrogance, it’s politics as usual in PA. Remember the immortal Bud Shuster? He ran on BOTH tickets for years and years. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2006, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-ranking-incumbents-get-the-gate-in-pennsylvania/357410/33 "2006-06-06T21:42:17Z")
You mean he of the completely unnecessary Bud Shuster Official Pork Barrel Highway, also known as I-99? I’'ll tell you, it’s good that that highway in particular is named after him, what with the acid rock and environmental problems they’ve had there. It’s just so apropos considering who we’re talking about. Oh, let’s not forget his hand-picked successor: who, you ask? Why, none other than his son Bill. It’s all in the family around here, let me tell you. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![kurahee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f19dbf/32.png) [@kurahee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kurahee)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2006, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-ranking-incumbents-get-the-gate-in-pennsylvania/357410/34 "2006-06-06T22:12:36Z")
Reading the name Bud Shuster gave me shivers. Now THAT was entrenched corruption. Glad we got that straightened out with his son. :rolleyes: Is there any part of the state that isn’t corrupt? Entrenched with “as is” politics? I was encouraged by the results but it’s not enough. There were a number of these clowns that ran uncontested (money, you see is important). So, I will be voting anti-incumbent as well this November. I don’t care about party affiliation anymore. They are all the same to me. Just bullshit with different words. I want all the bums out. I want to see actual _change_. Even locally, the school board is polluted with corruption. The Zoning Board? Please. These Mickey Mouse towns that are developing have money, and that money gets spent. So when the school district sells a piece of property for $50K (to a relative on the school board) who then flips it for close to a million, and no one goes to jail, what to do? Even if we throw the boob out, he’s made a chunk of change. But it was all voted on, you see. And so it goes. Check the pensions of these asshats. I believe if they serve 10 years, it’s full pay for the pasture. Now I wish I knew that when I was 20. Cha-ching! Honest to God, I have wanted to get involved, but I’m afraid of what I’m going to smell like if I get in. In PA, entrenched corruption runs the day. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-ranking-incumbents-get-the-gate-in-pennsylvania/357410.md?page=1)