# Top Religious Leader of Saudi Arabia bans Chess **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 22, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892 "2016-01-22T18:04:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/261 "2016-01-26T00:54:08Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Hah! I forgot about that. But, wait; his wife, being a woman, wasn’t accorded full personhood back then. Even today, a fair number of Buddhist sects restrict women’s worship. > > Another thing, since coremelt says he respects Buddhism, then he must respect those Buddhists who are killing other people for the “crime” of not being Buddhist. Say what? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/262 "2016-01-26T01:08:56Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Hah! I forgot about that. But, wait; his wife, being a woman, wasn’t accorded full personhood back then. Even today, a fair number of Buddhist sects restrict women’s worship. > > Another thing, since coremelt says he respects Buddhism, then he must respect those Buddhists who are killing other people for the “crime” of not being Buddhist. [BBC](http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-22356306) > [@](#): > > Of all the moral precepts instilled in Buddhist monks the promise not to kill comes first, and the principle of non-violence is arguably more central to Buddhism than any other major religion. So why have monks been using hate speech against Muslims and joining mobs that have left dozens dead? ---
**Author:** ![Hooleehootoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/eada6e/32.png) [@Hooleehootoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hooleehootoo)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/263 "2016-01-26T01:26:49Z")
The issue is not violence and warfare between different ethnic and religious groups, it is the prevalence of execution for apostasy by believers of ex-believers. Buddhists killing ex-Buddhists on religious grounds. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/264 "2016-01-26T02:50:32Z")
> [@A\_isha](#): > > It’s obvious that you have zero clue as to what you’re talking about. "Afghan parliament rejects ban on child marriage saying its “un-islamic” to ban: > **[Afghan parliament rejects ban on child marriage, saying it violates Islamic...](https://jihadwatch.org/2013/06/afghan-parliament-rejects-ban-on-child-marriage-saying-it-violated-islamic-principles)** > > Few things are more abundantly attested in Islamic law than the permissibility of child marriage. Islamic tradition records that Muhammad's favorite wife, Aisha, was six when Muhammad wedded her and nine when he consummated the marriage: "The Prophet... Notice they didn’t say “its against Afghani culture”, they specifically quote the Quran and the example of Muhammeds life for why they can’t ban child marriage. Now go and google “Thighing” and the many discussions where islamic clerics discuss the permissibility of it (most say its just fine). When something is done by your founder, mentioned in the holy book, and still widely practised in modern islamic societies its pretty hard to try and claim with a straight face that its not representative of the religion. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/265 "2016-01-26T03:21:26Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Hah! I forgot about that. But, wait; his wife, being a woman, wasn’t accorded full personhood back then. Even today, a fair number of Buddhist sects restrict women’s worship. Were there male relatives to help her spend the money? ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/266 "2016-01-26T03:32:32Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Hah! I forgot about that. But, wait; his wife, being a woman, wasn’t accorded full personhood back then. Even today, a fair number of Buddhist sects restrict women’s worship. There are no Buddhist sects that restrict women from worshipping, some sects restrict women from becoming nuns. Gautauma Buddhas own monastery allowed women to become monks. Anyway Buddhists don’t worship, because there is no supernatural being to worship in buddhism, they visit temples to make merit, give offerings to monks or meditate. Women are freely allowed to partake in those activities in all forms of Buddhism I’m aware of. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/267 "2016-01-26T03:36:39Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > "Afghan parliament rejects ban on child marriage saying its “un-islamic” to ban: > [Afghan parliament rejects ban on child marriage, saying it violates Islamic principles](http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/06/afghan-parliament-rejects-ban-on-child-marriage-saying-it-violated-islamic-principles) Now how I did I know that one of your “sources” of commentary on Islam is the lying bigot Robert Spencer? > [@](#): > > Notice they didn’t say “its against Afghani culture”, they specifically quote the Quran and the example of Muhammeds life for why they can’t ban child marriage. Or you could see what Al-Azhar al-Sharif [has to say about child marriage](http://www.unicef.org/mena/Children_in_Islam_English.pdf). > [@](#): > > When something is done by your founder, [Hmm.](http://www.sistersinislam.org.my/news.php?item.992.41) > [@](#): > > mentioned in the holy book, Nope. > [@](#): > > and still widely practised in modern islamic societies Sure, if by “islamic societies” you mean [“No one religious affiliation is associated with child marriage. Rather, a variety of religions are associated with child marriage in countries throughout the world”](http://www.icrw.org/child-marriage-facts-and-figures). > [@](#): > > its pretty hard to try and claim with a straight face that its not representative of the religion. No, that’s pretty much the truth. As I said, you don’t know a fucking thing about what you’re talking about. And if you’re citing Spencer’s site, I think I’ve discovered why. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/268 "2016-01-26T03:40:27Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > There are no Buddhist sects that restrict women from worshipping, some sects restrict women from becoming nuns. Gautauma Buddhas own monastery allowed women to become monks. Anyway Buddhists don’t worship, because there is no supernatural being to worship in buddhism, they visit temples to make merit, give offerings to monks or meditate. Women are freely allowed to partake in those activities in all forms of Buddhism I’m aware of. [https://sophia.smith.edu/blog/buddhistthought15/2015/02/15/women-in-buddhism/](https://sophia.smith.edu/blog/buddhistthought15/2015/02/15/women-in-buddhism/) > [@](#): > > In contrast to their male counterparts, female nuns are subjected to stricter spiritual guidelines, which pose challenges in their monastic life. As shown in Buddhist texts, Siddhartha reluctantly allows women to become ordained after enforcing the Eight Garudhammas, which are additional spiritual guidelines directly imposed on nuns, not monks (Gethin 90). These rules require women to respect monks, undergo additional discipline training, and not worship in a space devoid of their male counterparts (Salgado 81-82). Furthermore, some Buddhist scholars interpreted that it is impossible for a woman to become a Buddha, barring women from reaching the highest spiritual level of their religion (Gethin 91). Some believe that males, given their state of rebirth, could only achieve the highest spiritual enlightenment and therefore become the exemplar of the Buddhist faith (Gethin 91). Consequently, the imposition of additional rules and the impossibility of female Buddhahood have subordinated “the nuns’ order to that of the monks” (Gethin 89). It seems that Buddhist teachings have depicted women as religious interlopers whose place belongs in the fringes of Buddhist worship and leadership among the monastery elite. Thus, Buddhist rules have prevented many women from gaining the privileges that are granted to men. > > Moreover, Buddhists’ adherence to social customs has limited the spiritual growth of female followers. Given their physical and spiritual deviance from worldly pleasures, Buddhists rely on their local community to gain food and manage money (Gethin 93). In order for local residents to view Buddhists positively, Vinaya rules instructed the sangha, which is dominated by men, to avoid “behavior that might be misconstrued by the laity” (Gethin 94). Consequently, “talking in private with a woman or spending the night in the same house as woman” has been prohibited, preventing many female adherents in conservative cultures from receiving the same access to the social and spiritual fruits of Buddhism that men have (Gethin 94). It seems that the preservation of the cultural status quo has prevented many Buddhists from seeking female converts. Given Buddhists’ need to please their community for their sustainability, one’s access to religious spaces and resources has been based on the gender norms of his/her contemporary environment, where women rights have been nonexistent or suppressed. > > Overall, the lacking female participation and leadership roles in Buddhism have been the byproduct of the religious traditions that favored male adherents. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/269 "2016-01-26T03:40:52Z")
To pick just one of **coremelt** ’s innumerable ignorant misrepresentations of religious history: [QUOTE=coremelt] Somehow Jesus, Buddha, Moses, Confucius, Guru Nanak, Mahavira and other major religious leaders are not recorded as having had sex with children. [/QUOTE] Actually, **the Buddha probably did have sex with a child below the age of consent** , according to our modern definitions of age of consent. Namely, Buddhist accounts of Siddhartha’s life recount that prior to his renunciation he married the princess Gopa, daughter of Dandapani. Dharmasastra texts indicate that girls at the time (as was common in many pre-modern cultures) would be married shortly before or just after puberty. **So there was probably not much difference in the ages of the young brides A’isha and Gopa when their husbands Muhammad and Buddha, respectively, first had sex with them.** The Svetambara Jain legends of the early life of Mahavira follow a similar story arc: **Mahavira was married to a beautiful young princess named Yashoda, who would probably also have been pre-pubescent or barely pubescent at the time.** As for Guru Nanak Singh, the founder of Sikhism, we don’t have to rely on vague ancient legends: Sikh doctrine is very specific in recording that he married in 1487. It is not recorded exactly how old his bride Sulakhani was at the time, but given that Guru Nanak had an elder sister who was born in 1464 and married in 1475 (i.e., at the age of eleven), **it’s pretty safe to conclude that the bridegroom Guru Nanak was also having sex with a child** according to modern criteria. Face it, **coremelt** , adult men all over the pre-modern world got married to nearly pubescent or just barely pubescent girls, who were far younger than modern age-of-consent limits, _ **all the goddamned time** _. It was considered **normal** in most societies, if only as a defensive measure: after all, as soon as a girl approached sexual maturity, she was perceived as being at risk for sexual predation and/or voluntary sexual misconduct that would ruin her virgin status and potentially her entire life. Far more prudent to get her married off as soon as possible to an approved and mature husband, and let him take over the responsibility for her sexuality. There is absolutely no historically valid reason to think that Muhammad’s marriage to A’isha was any more “pedophilic” than the Buddha’s marriage to Gopa, or Mahavira’s marriage to Yashoda, or Guru Nanak’s marriage to Sulakhani. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/270 "2016-01-26T03:51:31Z")
On the off chance that anyone reading this garbage dump of a thread is actually interested, the way marriage works in works in classical Sunni _fiqh_ in Islam is this: to be married, you have to have the legal capacity to marry. Legal capacity is defined as two things: reaching physical maturity (puberty, called _baligh_), and mental maturity (the age at which you can manage your own legal and financial affairs, called _rushd_). When a child reaches _baligh_, they are considered to have reached the “age of discrection”, or _mummayiz_, in which they are presumed to have a full understanding of their religious duties (_ahliyyat ada’ diniyyah_) and become responsible for carrying them out (fasting, ablutions, prayer, etc). However, it’s not until they reach the age of _rushd_ that they are considered to be fully legally capable (_ahliyyat al-wujup_), and can do things like enter into contracts and take responsibility for transactions and things like that. The parallel is obviously between our modern Western laws, in which a child who has reached puberty is deemed mentally capable of being responsible for certain things, but isn’t (generally) able to do other things like sign contracts or manage their own financial affairs until they become a legal adult at 18. A _wali_ (legal guardian, whether biological like a father or just someone appointed to the role) of a male or female minor child (ie, one that has not reached the age of maturity), can arrange a _nikah_, or marriage contract, with someone else on behalf of their ward, but the contract itself is not executed until both parties have reached mental and physical maturity, and upon reaching that age the ward can dissolve the marriage contract before its execution (meaning the marriage itself never actually takes place). Qur’anically, one is supposed to be both physically and mentally capable of marriage, and be considered “mature”, in order to get married. The big problem comes in because, in the main schools of Islamic law, the consideration of “maturity” can be rather muddled due to the fact that there are no real hard-and-fast rules about what, precisely, counts as “maturity”. All the schools agree that at the very least no marriage should take place before the age of _baligh_, or puberty, but none of the schools set a definite age as to when this happens to a child, instead relying on the assessment of the physical development of any given individual - you go through puberty when you start menstruating, as a girl, or start having emissions, as a boy (and, in all schools but the Hanafi, grow pubic hair). In the case of “late developers”, the Shafi and Hanbali declare that boys and girls who have reached the age of 15 to have “gone through puberty”, even in the absence of signs like menses or emissions; for the Hanafi, this age is 18 for boys and 17 for girls, while for Malikis it’s 17 for both. These ages are also the ages at which someone is considered to have reached _rushd_, when they become a full legal adult. The issue is the cases when a child is adjudicated to have gone through puberty before the specific ages given above. Some scholars declare that merely reaching the age of _baligh_ is sufficient for full marriage, either disregarding the requirement for reaching the age of _rushd_ or considering that the age of _rushd_ automatically and concurrently is reached as soon as puberty is reached regardless of chronological age. Others consider _baligh_ to be a necessary but not sufficient requirement, and don’t consider that person eligible for marriage until they have reached one of the ages for _rushd_ too, even if they have gone through puberty. Complicating things is the ability of a _wali_ to arrange a marriage for a child who hasn’t reached either of those ages yet, because in far too many of those early “betrothals” the issue of age of _rushd_ is almost always ignored, and even the requirement for _baligh_ can be treated as a formality at best and also ignored at worst. One additional aspect of all this, which especially affects both the kind of arranged child marriages described at the end of my last paragraph above, and Western perceptions of the age of marriage in Islamic law, is the fact that in addition to setting a “maximum” age of puberty, the Hanafi school also sets a minimum age: 12 for boys and 9 for girls. However, like the tendency described above where the age of _rushd_ is sometimes just sort of handwaved away as being the same as the age of _baligh_ (regardless of actual chronological age or mental maturity), this minimum age is sometimes taken as a “given” for when _baligh_ has been reached and the girl is deemed capable of marriage, regardless of the actual age at which she physically goes through puberty. Though this attitude isn’t actually limited to the Hanafis - the Saudis are rather strict Hanbalis, for instance. As regards to the age of 'A’isha in relation to all of the above, she’s usually considered to have been both _balugh_ and _rashid_ at the time of her marriage to Muhammad (whether one considers her to have been actually much older than 9, or was simply remarkable in that regard if she was actually 9), or used as ammunition for the Muslims who argue that strict chronological age and not physical or mental development determine _baligh_ and _rushd_). ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/271 "2016-01-26T04:09:02Z")
The age of Aisha at marriage was widely accepted to be 6, consummated at 9 up until the 20th century. It’s only in modern times that some (the minority) of Islamic scholars have attempted to white wash this. "“It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”Bukhari, Book of Qualities of the Ansar ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/272 "2016-01-26T04:15:35Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > The age of Aisha at marriage was widely accepted to be 6, consummated at 9 But as has been exhaustively pointed out to you, all the historical evidence indicates that she was probably somewhere around puberty when she first had sex. Which, as I noted, would make her marriage circumstances pretty typical for the brides of many famous pre-modern religious leaders. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/273 "2016-01-26T04:18:30Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > The age of Aisha at marriage was widely accepted to be 6, consummated at 9 up until the 20th century. It’s only in modern times that some (the minority) of Islamic scholars have attempted to white wash this. You have it backwards, actually. It wasn’t until the 20th Century that Western Islamophobes found anything condemnatory about it. It was perfectly normal and acceptable even to them before then. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/274 "2016-01-26T04:27:19Z")
The Christian Middle Ages also saw a lot of child-brides, and the records of these among the nobility are easy to find. It was a “medieval” thing, not an “Islamic” thing. Also, good point that it wasn’t hammered on, say, during the Crusades. If it were such a big deal then, certainly the Crusaders and Popes would have made a big deal out of it. They didn’t bother, probably because their cousins were all doing the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/275 "2016-01-26T04:27:59Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > But as has been exhaustively pointed out to you, all the historical evidence indicates that she was probably somewhere around puberty when she first had sex. Her own recorded words are that she was 9, possibly she had hit puberty then but thats pretty unusual. And as A’isha admits thats the minimum age for marriage for women in various islamic schools of thought precisely because of Muhammeds example. Heres a more neutral source for the Afghanistan parliaments statement that banning child marriage is “un-islamic”. > **[Afghan parliament upholds right to marry children](https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/10/afghan-parliament-upholds-right-marry-children/)** > > Afghanistan’s parliament has rejected a measure that would have barred men from marrying girls younger than 16, saying the proposal ran counter to Islamic ideology. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/276 "2016-01-26T04:37:56Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > There are no Buddhist sects that restrict women from worshipping, some sects restrict women from becoming nuns. Since becoming a monk or a nun is one form of worship, a restriction on becoming one is a restriction on worship. > [@](#): > > Gautauma Buddhas own monastery allowed women to become monks. That is not true for all sects of Buddhism. > [@](#): > > Anyway Buddhists don’t worship, because there is no supernatural being to worship in buddhism, they visit temples to make merit, give offerings to monks or meditate. Women are freely allowed to partake in those activities in all forms of Buddhism I’m aware of. You’re proving yet again exactly how aware you are of what you’re talking about: not very. The practices of obeisance do not require the object of worship to be supernatural. At any rate, there is a wide practice of worshiping one manifestation of Buddha, Kwan Yin, as a goddess, a supernatural entity able to answer prayers. My main point, though, is that you said you respect Buddhism although its founder abandoned his family and although some of its practitioners today murder others for not being Buddhist. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/277 "2016-01-26T04:40:35Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > The Christian Middle Ages also saw a lot of child-brides, and the records of these among the nobility are easy to find. It was a “medieval” thing, not an “Islamic” thing. > > Also, good point that it wasn’t hammered on, say, during the Crusades. If it were such a big deal then, certainly the Crusaders and Popes would have made a big deal out of it. They didn’t bother, probably because their cousins were all doing the same thing. Weren’t the Crusaders also keeping themselves a bit busy by raping Muslim women and even women they just thought might be Muslims, not to mention the way they were treating Jewish women? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/278 "2016-01-26T04:44:06Z")
> [@A\_isha](#): > > You have it backwards, actually. It wasn’t until the 20th Century that Western Islamophobes found anything condemnatory about it. It was perfectly normal and acceptable even to them before then. For example, note that in England it wasn’t until **1875** that the age of consent was **raised** to **13** ; previously it had been set around 10-12 years of age in common law. In most US states, [the age of consent was 10 years as late as 1880](https://chnm.gmu.edu/cyh/case-studies/230?section=primarysources&source=24), while in Delaware at that time it was as low as 7. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/279 "2016-01-26T04:54:10Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Since becoming a monk or a nun is one form of worship, a restriction on becoming one is a restriction on worship. Buddhism is certainly not perfect when it comes to equality of women. However men and women visit the temple together, there is no separate prayer area for women as is common in most forms of Islam. It’s true that Buddhist nuns are supposed to be subordinate to male monks in most forms of Buddhism, like I said its not perfect. But lets look at the very clearly spelled out inferiority of women in Islam: Quran (2:228) - “and the men are a degree above them [women]” Quran (4:11) - (Inheritance) “The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females” (see also verse 4:176). Quran (2:282) - (Court testimony) “And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not found then a man and two women.” And then there’s the Quran verse making is clear its lawful to have sex with slaves that you capture in war: Quran (33:50) O Prophet (Muhammad)! Verily, We have made lawful to you your wives, to whom you have paid their Mahr (bridal money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage), and those (captives or slaves) whom your right hand possesses - whom Allah has given to you… ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/280 "2016-01-26T04:56:30Z")
[12 year old girls](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_marriage_in_the_United_States) can get married in Massachusetts with parental or judicial consent. 13 in New Hampshire. 14 in Texas. Regardless of consent laws (16-18 nationwide barring some Romeo and Juliet laws), marriage provides consent. So it’s legal for a 12 year old girl, in the United States, in 2016, to be married and have sex with her husband. How’s that shake up your spinal column? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892.md?page=15)