# Top Religious Leader of Saudi Arabia bans Chess **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 22, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892 "2016-01-22T18:04:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/101 "2016-01-23T23:57:49Z")
> [@minlokwat](#): > > You are correct and we have been completely side tracked. > > Question: The horse is the piece that moves like an “L” right? Stop that ♘ shit! :mad: 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/102 "2016-01-24T00:04:53Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Stop that ♘ shit! :mad: You seen kind of touchy this morning. Rough knight? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/103 "2016-01-24T00:15:18Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You seen kind of touchy this morning. Rough knight? Yes **Miller**. I’m between a _rook_ and a hard place right now. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/104 "2016-01-24T00:55:15Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > Oh terrible, I mistyped when typing in my fourth language. A typo is so much the same as being stupid. Is anyone buying her ESL shtick? Many of her posts have random capitalization, poor grammar, and made up words like “odd hoc”. And yet, other posts are in entirely correct American English. Why does it switch back and forth? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/105 "2016-01-24T01:00:31Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Is anyone buying her ESL shtick? Many of her posts have random capitalization, poor grammar, and made up words like “odd hoc”. > > And yet, other posts are in entirely correct American English. > > Why does it switch back and forth? > > :dubious: I think she is just frustrated… I do not detect any dishonesty or insincerity. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/106 "2016-01-24T01:31:27Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > Any strong ideology is like this. Some ideologies at least try to follow reason. Religion determinedly avoids it. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/107 "2016-01-24T02:13:19Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > and what does that say, that when the “rules” are in place you are nice and civil and when the rules are not in place, every other word from you to someone you disagree with: > > is an insult > it’s not just me > > you’re insulting - everyone - who disagrees with you Ramira does disagrees with plenty of people, regardless of the forum rules. The Pit just allows her to do so with less restraint. Having just read the Jesus thread, I can see how Ramira would be short-tempered with your posts on religion. You were like a screaming toddler in a room full of grown-ups trying to have a serious conversation. You clearly know nothing about historiography and its intellectual norms and standards. And yet you interjected your nonsense repeatedly without even understanding the basic question at hand. Look at me! I’m an atheist! Spiderman! You were lucky to be more or less ignored rather than pitted for your nonsense. If you don’t like people insulting you, stay out of the pit. You’re definitely better off in forums where people must be more restrained in their responses to you. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/108 "2016-01-24T02:21:35Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > Ramira does disagrees with plenty of people, regardless of the forum rules. The Pit just allows her to do so with less restraint. > > Having just read the Jesus thread, I can see how Ramira would be short-tempered with your posts on religion. You were like a screaming toddler in a room full of grown-ups trying to have a serious conversation. You clearly know nothing about historiography and its intellectual norms and standards. And yet you interjected your nonsense repeatedly without even understanding the basic question at hand. Look at me! I’m an atheist! Spiderman! You were lucky to be more or less ignored rather than pitted for your nonsense. > > If you don’t like people insulting you, stay out of the pit. You’re definitely better off in forums where people must be more restrained in their responses to you. Yeah, at my worst behavior I childishly compare religious faith to comic books. And, that is pretty much as worst as I get. But in the Pit, peoples real true bad side comes out. I’m not talking about me, I’m talking about the whole darn circus of hostility in the pit. Bullies and jerks are always saying the people they insult deserve it or that they are too weak if they can’t take it. BTW, I’m not saying - you - are hostile. But your whole line of reasoning about where I am “better off” is suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/109 "2016-01-24T02:38:11Z")
“shāh māt” (شاه مات) The King is dead. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/110 "2016-01-24T02:38:27Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Yeah, at my worst behavior I childishly compare religious faith to comic books. And, that is pretty much as worst as I get. > > But in the Pit, peoples real true bad side comes out. I’m not talking about me, I’m talking about the whole darn circus of hostility in the pit. > > Bullies and jerks are always saying the people they insult deserve it or that they are too weak if they can’t take it. > > BTW, I’m not saying - you - are hostile. But your whole line of reasoning about where I am “better off” is suspect. The thread was most definitely _not_ about religious faith, as was explained to you repeatedly. You efforts to demonstrate your atheist superiority through Spiderman references would have been juvenile anywhere, but it was utterly idiotic in a discussion about the historical Jesus. You simply couldn’t follow a discussion you insisted on participating in. You \*still \*don’t get it. That’s the problem. I have no idea what you mean by suspect. You seem to see agendas where they do not exist. You’ve been complaining a good deal of late how nasty the Pit is. That’s like complaining there’s too much debate in Great Debates. i don’t care if you stick around here or not–I assure you that on this subject I’m agenda-free. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/111 "2016-01-24T03:00:05Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > The thread was most definitely _not_ about religious faith, as was explained to you repeatedly. You efforts to demonstrate your atheist superiority through Spiderman references would have been juvenile anywhere, but it was utterly idiotic in a discussion about the historical Jesus. You simply couldn’t follow a discussion you insisted on participating in. You \*still \*don’t get it. That’s the problem. Yeah, I understood what you meant the first time. > [@](#): > > I have no idea what you mean by suspect. The suspect idea is this: Mean people and jerks hide behind “they deserved it” and “well they were too weak to take it”. If you refute that idea I find your commentary suspect. > [@](#): > > You seem to see agendas where they do not exist. Sometimes yes, certainly so. (sometimes). > [@](#): > > You’ve been complaining a good deal of late how nasty the Pit is. That’s like complaining there’s too much debate in Great Debates. No, its like saying, when there are “no rules” people get mean and their hidden bad side come out… that makes me sad. I’d like to think people were not so mean spirited. And it’s also sad to see that so many people are actually putting on a front when they are being “polite”. BTW- I do not include Ramira in that group. Her frustration is rather straightforward. > [@](#): > > I don’t care if you stick around here or not–I assure you that on this subject I’m agenda-free. Yeah, see, I rather be called an idiot and told to shut up than receive a condescending lecture from someone who “has no agenda”. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/112 "2016-01-24T03:40:27Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Yeah, I understood what you meant the first time. > Yeah, see, I rather be called an idiot and told to shut up than receive a condescending lecture from someone who “has no agenda”. The lecture part concerned your being an idiot Jesus thread. The Pit part was response to your incessant complaining about the Pit in multiple threads. Your use of agenda is cute in a ridiculous kind of way. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/113 "2016-01-24T04:07:04Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > The lecture part concerned your being an idiot Jesus thread. Which I probably deserved. > [@](#): > > The Pit part was response to your incessant complaining about the Pit in multiple threads. You are still missing the point… but, are you really? I don’t think that “it makes me sad to see peoples hidden, true bad nature” is that complicated of a concept to follow… ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/114 "2016-01-24T04:21:07Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > there are no ordinations, nothing priestly, no role like a priest. preachers and scholars, not priests. It doesn’t matter at all if you insist they are not priests. They have influence, people listen to them and they shape opinion in islamic society. You are free to ignore the Grand Mufti and call him in an idiot, but presumably some people in Saudi Arabia do listen to him and live their lives as he suggests. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/115 "2016-01-24T04:37:47Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > It doesn’t matter at all if you insist they are not priests. They have influence, people listen to them and they shape opinion in islamic society. You are free to ignore the Grand Mufti and call him in an idiot, but presumably some people in Saudi Arabia do listen to him and live their lives as he suggests. Well, if one checks the follow ups, it is more likely that I was correct. Just an old Stale Mate that the Mufti tried to continue going with very little to show in the matter, the powerful and the intelligentsia are not much concerned. Of course it goes almost without saying that the Grand Muff is a dunce. > **[Saudi cleric's fatwa against chess meets with stalemate](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/saudiarabia/12113324/Saudi-clerics-fatwa-against-chess-meets-with-stalemate.html)** > > Grand Mufti's attempt to link chess with gambling countered with strategic display of kings, queens and 'ministers' > [@](#): > > Saudi cleric’s fatwa against chess meets with stalemate > Grand Mufti’s attempt to link chess with gambling countered with strategic display of kings, queens and ‘ministers’ > > … > > Musa bin Thaily confirmed that the ban was “by fatwa” but he went on to issue a lengthy string of polite tweets expressly designed, he said, not to “bring shame on my country”.\*\* The tweets consisted of a series of pictures of Saudi Arabia’s chess stars and games and tournaments being played with apparent full acquiescence of the authorities since the first fatwa of this sort was issued 40 years ago. > \*\* > “Chess activities in Saudi have prospered in recent years because the ban wasn’t strictly enforced,” he said. “Tomorrow is the start of Makkah (Mecca) chess event, my best wishes for the staff and best luck for all players.” BTW according to the report, this same cleric still holds that there should be a ban on women drivers, so there are many others reasons why to dislike clerics like him. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/116 "2016-01-24T05:07:13Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I think she is just frustrated… I do not detect any dishonesty or insincerity. That wouldn’t account for the switching between posting styles, though. Also, why is she so hostile? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/117 "2016-01-24T05:41:44Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Well, you are a bit better behaved today than normal. I’ve seen you positively vile and bitter. I have never been vile nor have I been bitter on these boards. Seems to me that you may be projecting. > [@](#): > > Never, however, have I seen you act in comportment with the following. Not even on your best day: > > “If you love those who love you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to get back the same amount. But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil. Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful. … I have never done you any harm. When I asked you for proof that my posts indicate hatred of you as a person, you answered with what’s basically a non sequitur. > [@Robert163](#): > > This is how you love your enemies? > This is how you turn the other cheek? > This is how you love those who do you wrong? Ah, I see now. You’re finally admitting that you’re trolling here. > [@](#): > > You are such a massive hypocrite. > Please stop calling yourself a christian. Nope. No hypocrisy here on my part. > [@digs](#): > > Excuse me. Sorry to interrupt, but I was looking for a discussion about chess…? Of course I disagree with the GM (hmm…maybe he’s upset that Chess has GMs too!) referred to in the OP regarding Chess. Centuries ago, there were attempts to ban it but it’s been a going concern in Islamic countries. The Grand Mufti would be on more solid ground if he complained about the game using “graven images”, yet even that would be a stretch for many Muslims to agree to. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Some ideologies at least try to follow reason. Religion determinedly avoids it. That’s not true of all religions. > [@Emiliana](#): > > Ramira does disagrees with plenty of people, regardless of the forum rules. The Pit just allows her to do so with less restraint. > > Having just read the Jesus thread, I can see how Ramira would be short-tempered with your posts on religion. You were like a screaming toddler in a room full of grown-ups trying to have a serious conversation. You clearly know nothing about historiography and its intellectual norms and standards. And yet you interjected your nonsense repeatedly without even understanding the basic question at hand. Look at me! I’m an atheist! Spiderman! You were lucky to be more or less ignored rather than pitted for your nonsense. > > If you don’t like people insulting you, stay out of the pit. You’re definitely better off in forums where people must be more restrained in their responses to you. Well, trolls gotta troll after all. Robert163 clearly knows little about Christianity. Isn’t he the one who asserted that “Christians do not believe the Old Testament”? > [@Robert163](#): > > Yeah, at my worst behavior I childishly compare religious faith to comic books. And, that is pretty much as worst as I get. > > But in the Pit, peoples real true bad side comes out. I’m not talking about me, I’m talking about the whole darn circus of hostility in the pit. > > Bullies and jerks are always saying the people they insult deserve it or that they are too weak if they can’t take it. > > BTW, I’m not saying - you - are hostile. But your whole line of reasoning about where I am “better off” is suspect. Well, you’ve been dishonest in the Pit and you’ve been dishonest outside of the Pit, and you’ve insulted others outside the Pit. What’s that say about your “bad side”? > [@Emiliana](#): > > The thread was most definitely _not_ about religious faith, as was explained to you repeatedly. You efforts to demonstrate your atheist superiority through Spiderman references would have been juvenile anywhere, but it was utterly idiotic in a discussion about the historical Jesus. You simply couldn’t follow a discussion you insisted on participating in. You \*still \*don’t get it. That’s the problem. > > I have no idea what you mean by suspect. You seem to see agendas where they do not exist. You’ve been complaining a good deal of late how nasty the Pit is. That’s like complaining there’s too much debate in Great Debates. i don’t care if you stick around here or not–I assure you that on this subject I’m agenda-free. You’re correct. Robert163 is delustional. Either that, or it’s just part of his trolling. > [@coremelt](#): > > It doesn’t matter at all if you insist they are not priests. They have influence, people listen to them and they shape opinion in islamic society. You are free to ignore the Grand Mufti and call him in an idiot, but presumably some people in Saudi Arabia do listen to him and live their lives as he suggests. People listen to teachers, actors, models, political leaders, and a number of others. That does not make any of those people priests (except for those who happen to be priests, of course). As to someone in Saudi Arabia living their lives the way the dude referred to in the OP suggests, it seems that just very well not be much of a thing; he’s been roundly criticized and mocked for his opinion on Chess, and quite a lot of that criticism and mocking is coming from Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/118 "2016-01-24T05:53:00Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I have never been vile nor have I been bitter on these boards. Ummmm… ok. I think you’re funny dude. You get so worked up over the littlest thing. You actually think comparing the bible to a comic book is a big deal, for example. And you don’t seem to grasp that loving your enemies, turning the other cheek, and lending without expecting anything in return… is more than a platitude… it’s actually what Jesus wanted you to do. Of course, maybe you just get frustrated and your calmer more pleasant side doesn’t come across well when you encounter a topic you don’t like. Something important to you. I can’t rule out that possibility completely. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/119 "2016-01-24T05:58:01Z")
As always, I’m calm. You’re still imagining things. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/120 "2016-01-24T06:23:37Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > As always, I’m calm. You’re still imagining things. Did I imagine it when you pitted me like almost a year ago? You weren’t very calm then. You are the one who has a god who tells you to turn the other cheek and to do good to those who insult you and mistreat you. How could you possibly start a Pit thread to insult me and honestly call yourself a Christian? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892.md?page=7)