# Top Religious Leader of Saudi Arabia bans Chess **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 22, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892 "2016-01-22T18:04:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/121 "2016-01-24T07:27:05Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > In the religion, the imam is someone the rest of the congregation thinks can lead the prayer well. That is all. Tomorrow if the mosque decides that Mustapha the teacher is too annoying now as Imam, we can appoint Abdallah the butcher, right out of the congregation if everyone agrees (or by whatever internal rule we have). A mufti is a name for someone who like a rabbi is considered learned in the religious teachings. the only rules are those imposed by the secular state itself as nothing in the religion establishes > > there are no ordinations, nothing priestly, no role like a priest. preachers and scholars, not priests. I think Shia Muslims have a more strong priesthood, but in any case how is what you describe different from a protestant priest (vicar)? He (or she) has no special mandate from God. It’s just a dude who says some words. ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ac8455/32.png) [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Your_Great_Darsh_Face)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/122 "2016-01-24T07:59:43Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > I think Shia Muslims have a more strong priesthood, but in any case how is what you describe different from a protestant priest (vicar)? He (or she) has no special mandate from God. It’s just a dude who says some words. “Priest” is OK as a generic term. Anyway, you’re not quite right about the mandate: it’s not just a dude who says some words, it’s a dude who’s had special training and been given the official OK by a higher official in the Church, and without it, there are many duties he’s not allowed to exercise. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/123 "2016-01-24T08:08:37Z")
> [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](#): > > “Priest” is OK as a generic term. Anyway, you’re not quite right about the mandate: it’s not just a dude who says some words, it’s a dude who’s had special training and been given the official OK by a higher official in the Church, and without it, there are many duties he’s not allowed to exercise. It’s not a mandate from God though and their words have no special weight other than those of any other person. Also the Church organisation is only true for some denominations of Protestant Christianity. There’s nothing wrong with me going out tomorrow and start performing the task of a priest and ministering to a congregation that would want to listen. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/124 "2016-01-24T08:31:11Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > I think Shia Muslims have a more strong priesthood, but in any case how is what you describe different from a protestant priest (vicar)? He (or she) has no special mandate from God. It’s just a dude who says some words. That really depends on the denomination. Baptists and a few others do not consider their pastors to be priests other than just being Christian and therefore part of “the priesthood of believers”. Episcopalians have an ordained priesthood. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/125 "2016-01-24T08:42:18Z")
This whole “islam has no priests” thing is a just an attempt as distraction. Every time an muslim religious figure says something outrageous this line is trotted out to try and claim they have no authority and people are free to ignore them. Well know what? Catholics can ignore the pope too, many do on contraception. That doesn’t mean that his words don’t carry a lot of weight. Here is another “not a priest”. He has 13 million followers on twitter, the highest of any account in the middle east. He is quite well known for his views on wife beating: “If he beats her,” Al-Arefe said in the video, “the beatings must be light and must not make her face ugly. He should beat her in some places where it will not cause any damage.” > **[Mohamad al-Arefe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamad_al-Arefe)** > > Muhammad bin Abdul-Rahman al-Arifi (Arabic: محمد بن عبد الرحمن العريفي, born 15 July 1970) is a Saudi Arabian author and Da'i. He is a graduate of King Saud University, and member of the Muslim World League and the Association of Muslim Scholars. > As of 2016, al-Arefe had over 20 million followers on Twitter. > Muslim Brotherhood affiliation was denied for Arefe and Adil al-Kalbani by al-Kalbani, saying that they are affiliated with the Union of Muslim Scholars. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/126 "2016-01-24T09:24:38Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > This whole “islam has no priests” thing is a just an attempt as distraction. Every time an muslim religious figure says something outrageous this line is trotted out to try and claim they have no authority and people are free to ignore them. Well know what? Catholics can ignore the pope too, many do on contraception. That doesn’t mean that his words don’t carry a lot of weight. > > Here is another “not a priest”. He has 13 million followers on twitter, the highest of any account in the middle east. He is quite well known for his views on wife beating: > “If he beats her,” Al-Arefe said in the video, “the beatings must be light and must not make her face ugly. He should beat her in some places where it will not cause any damage.” > [Mohamad al-Arefe - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamad_al-Arefe) “Carry a lot of weight” does not mean the same thing in Islam as the Pope’s dictates on theological issues for Roman Catholics. The Muslim scholar issues a finding which can be refuted by other scholars. The Pope’s dictates, on the other hand, pose a dilemma (supposedly) for believing Roman Catholics, who, by going against, say, the Pope’s doctrine on birth control, put their soul in jeopardy, according to RC belief. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/127 "2016-01-24T09:50:32Z")
I’m really not sure what point you are trying to make. Are you trying to argue that islamic religious leaders have no influence at all? Because otherwise, when they say something stupid or abhorrent we’re perfectly justified in criticising them. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/128 "2016-01-24T12:30:53Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > I’m really not sure what point you are trying to make. Are you trying to argue that islamic religious leaders have no influence at all? Because otherwise, when they say something stupid or abhorrent we’re perfectly justified in criticising them. Never said that. Hint: read what the poster wrote. Islamic jurists and scholars are just that: jurists and scholars. The Pope is a priest. They have different functions in their respective religions and the responses to their pronouncements have different results. In the case of the Pope when he’s speaking _ex cathedra_, those who go against that dictate are going against what’s believed to be God speaking through him. In the case of the Islamic scholars/jurists, others versed in the Islamic law are quite justified in criticizing the latter consider the former to be in error. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/129 "2016-01-24T12:37:05Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > Ramira does disagrees with plenty of people, regardless of the forum rules. The Pit just allows her to do so with less restraint. > > Having just read the Jesus thread, I can see how Ramira would be short-tempered with your posts on religion. You were like a screaming toddler in a room full of grown-ups trying to have a serious conversation. You clearly know nothing about historiography and its intellectual norms and standards. And yet you interjected your nonsense repeatedly without even understanding the basic question at hand. Look at me! I’m an atheist! Spiderman! You were lucky to be more or less ignored rather than pitted for your nonsense. > > If you don’t like people insulting you, stay out of the pit. You’re definitely better off in forums where people must be more restrained in their responses to you. The wrath of the sky fairy worshippers is terrible to behold. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/130 "2016-01-24T13:03:49Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > The wrath of the sky fairy worshippers is terrible to behold. Ooh, zinger. I bet you just told your mom and dad that you won’t be going to church anymore. Maybe you can play Spiderman with Robert163. I’m an atheist, bozo. And yet I’m able to engage with people of faith without screaming sky fairies! Spiderman! Maybe one day you’ll be able to participate in a discussion too. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/131 "2016-01-24T13:12:37Z")
**Emiliana** : The trolls do be out in force in this thread, do they not? ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/132 "2016-01-24T13:16:40Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > **Emiliana** : > > The trolls do be out in force in this thread, do they not? Nah, this board has always had more than it’s fair share of adolescent atheists who come into every thread on religion shouting things like sky fairies and feeling all proud of themselves for their edginess. Eh, maybe that is trolling. It’s pretty fucking annoying in any case. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/133 "2016-01-24T16:37:56Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Never said that. Hint: read what the poster wrote. Islamic jurists and scholars are just that: jurists and scholars. The Pope is a priest. They have different functions in their respective religions and the responses to their pronouncements have different results. In the case of the Pope when he’s speaking _ex cathedra_, those who go against that dictate are going against what’s believed to be God speaking through him. In the case of the Islamic scholars/jurists, others versed in the Islamic law are quite justified in criticizing the latter consider the former to be in error. All this is pretty much bullshit. Who cares if islamic preachers “not priests” have authority or not. They have influence, and their opinions are widely spread by local and international media. If they say abhorrent / stupid things then I’m going to call them on it for being sexist / ignorant / backwards assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/134 "2016-01-24T16:54:32Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > All this is pretty much bullshit. Who cares if islamic preachers “not priests” have authority or not. They have influence, and their opinions are widely spread by local and international media. If they say abhorrent / stupid things then I’m going to call them on it for being sexist / ignorant / backwards assholes. Who cares? I answered the question you asked. Your inability to process the information is not my problem. I clearly stated that their pronouncements are subject to comment from those learned in the law on which they supposedly based their pronouncements. The Pope, on the other hand, is a priest (specifically, he’s a bishop) and in his religion’s theology, when speaking regarding Church doctrine, he’s infallible and therefore his pronouncements are not subject to review by members of that religion. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/135 "2016-01-24T16:57:38Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > I never said “exactly” like Priests, don’t put words in my mouth. Islam has religious leaders who perform various functions. It doesn’t matter that there is no ordination ritual, in english we don’t have another word thats more accurate for a religious leader so Priest will do. Sure we do: We have words like Imam, and Mufti, and Ayatollah. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/136 "2016-01-24T17:12:07Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Sure we do: We have words like Imam, and Mufti, and Ayatollah. They are not english words. They are loan words and again this is all a distraction to the issue which is an islamic religious leader saying something stupid. It doesn’t matter what title you give them, what matters is what they say. Judge them on that. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/137 "2016-01-24T17:20:33Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > They are not english words. You can find them in any English language dictionary. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/138 "2016-01-24T17:23:55Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You can find them in any English language dictionary. Again you are completely dismissing my point. I care about what they say, not what their title is. Answer me this clearly, whats your option of the Islamic “not priest” religious leader I quoted above with 12 million twitter followers who says its acceptable to beat your wife? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/139 "2016-01-24T17:33:12Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Again you are completely dismissing my point. Yes. Yes I am. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892/140 "2016-01-24T17:38:47Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Yes. Yes I am. What the fuck does that mean? Then I pit you. Are you trying to say that no one can ever criticise islam? This is a website dedicated to fighting ignorance. If you can’t live up to that then for fucks sake you shouldn’t be a moderator. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-religious-leader-of-saudi-arabia-bans-chess/743892.md?page=8)