# Top Secret American Destupization Project **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 22, 2009, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272 "2009-08-22T02:35:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/181 "2009-08-25T01:49:56Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Break the two-party system. (Use various tactics as necessary.) I believe that if we remove the tactic of pointing at the “other side” and saying “Them! They’re the bad guys! KILL!! KILL!!”, then we will remove the ability of a party to scoop up large chunks of the unthinking populace with energetic nonsense and venom alone. If there are three ‘conservative’ parties then the conservatives will have to either get smart enough to figure out which of them they actually like, or they will be unable to decide which to support, and may marginalize themselves. In either case, the threat from the stupids will be greatly reduced. > > To do this right, of course, we will have to avoid to coalitions forming that are ‘effectively’ two parties, but this should be doable. > > Of course, this wouldn’t really be attacking stupid _people_ - it attacks stupid _politics_, which I mind more. So I am technically aiming to solve a different problem than the OP. Good idea. How about bring back fusion tickets to jump start third parties? ---
**Author:** ![rivulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rivulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rivulus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/182 "2009-08-25T02:56:11Z")
> [@wierdaaron](#): > > Another problem it would run into is the general ridiculousness of all these proposals. Not for literal interpretation. You took the words right out of my mouth. Now if I was master of the universe, things would be different. And, yes, there would be voting tests. And childbearing tests, and… ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/183 "2009-08-25T04:10:05Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Used to be about the will of the people, how common sense moved Americans to a conservative viewpoint and resulted in a sensible, sane governance. > > Something seems to have gone terribly wrong, and rather recently. Can’t imagine what it might have been. But it appears that our tighty righty brethren have had their faith in democracy sorely tested. I’m not sure what you’re talking about. I seem to be one of the few in this thread who thinks this entire idea is rather disgusting, and that there’s nothing wrong with letting people vote the way they are now. My satirical points were simply to show that there seems to be a parallel thread here, which is that the kind of things that would show intelligence coincidentally happen to be the kinds of things that the denizens of the thread are particularly good at or particularly value. I see no evidence that being able to name the leader of Brunei is any more valuable to good voting than is the ability to understand how factories work, or what it takes to raise a family while working two jobs. This thread is basically a liberal fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/184 "2009-08-25T04:34:00Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > This thread is basically a liberal fantasy. That’s kind of exactly what it is. You’re really misinterpreting the tone here. I mean… _taco bar!_ ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/185 "2009-08-25T06:59:11Z")
Just tear up the D of I and ask if you can please come back into our fold, we may accept or we may not. If we accept all your problems are solved, if we reject then you’re back to square one. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/186 "2009-08-25T09:48:32Z")
> [@wierdaaron](#): > > That’s kind of exactly what it is. You’re really misinterpreting the tone here. I mean… _taco bar!_ The whole “taco bar” is obviously a liberal Marxist fascist racist red herring. You’d probably get there and Obama would be all “ **Taco** bar? You must have misheard - it’s a _ **tofu** _ bar!”. But by then it would be too late, and you’d be stuck eating tofu dogs while Obama stroked a white cat and cackled maniacally at you. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/187 "2009-08-25T10:32:26Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.” Bertrand Russell Yeats said it better: \* The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.\* ---
**Author:** ![PBear42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PBear42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PBear42)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/188 "2009-08-26T04:44:23Z")
I’ve only skimmed since the first page, but I think **Bryan Ekers** nailed it in the first post. **Athelas** makes a similar argument at the beginning of the current page. The problem isn’t stupidity in general. There’s plenty of that to go around and always will be. The problem is that we’re not dedicating adequate resources to educating the top 20% (or whatever) of the population. And taco bar? Ugh. Can we have pizza instead? ---
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/189 "2009-08-26T05:06:09Z")
I just want to let everyone know that, from now on, I’m going to be using the term “taco bar” for any situation where people mistake a light-hearted, satirical, or humorous post as serious and take offense to it. Feel free to do likewise. ---
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/190 "2009-08-26T05:08:34Z")
> [@PBear42](#): > > I’ve only skimmed since the first page, but I think **Bryan Ekers** nailed it in the first post. **Athelas** makes a similar argument at the beginning of the current page. The problem isn’t stupidity in general. There’s plenty of that to go around and always will be. The problem is that we’re not dedicating adequate resources to educating the top 20% (or whatever) of the population. > > And taco bar? Ugh. Can we have pizza instead? No, but you can use soft tortillas, tomatoes, cheese, and various meats to form a south-of-the-border pizza analog. There’s a toaster oven in the back. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/191 "2009-08-26T05:24:02Z")
(noting that I did not post in the first 50 posts, which indicates I probably did not say anything especially idiotic in subsequent posts, until now) Half of all citizens are below the mean. From my understanding of statistics, four quarters of a standard deviation are smarter than I am, one quarter stand a chance of not being idiots, another quarter are probably idiots, and the remaining, er, 0/4 are irredeemably stupid. I’d kiss off the top 1/4, as they believe their publicity and are, probably, liberals. The bottom quarter will be led by whoever leads them first. Gotta daughter there, and it requires constant explanation. The middle half has shown itself to be roughly divided between Liberals and Conservatives. Here we must point out to the Conservatives that they are cutting off their dicks to satisfy Dick Cheney. With some this will work. With others it will not and they will continue stabbing the R button, no matter how much it hurts them. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/192 "2009-08-26T05:25:40Z")
> [@wierdaaron](#): > > No, but you can use soft tortillas, tomatoes, cheese, and various meats to form a south-of-the-border pizza analog. There’s a toaster oven in the back. Got one as a wedding present. This may be the first time I’ve disagreed with you, but toaster ovens blew since before you were born. ---
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/193 "2009-08-26T05:36:48Z")
I use a toaster oven multiple times a day. So, clearly one of us is wrong, and the best way to resolve a dispute like that is to just assume I’m right. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/194 "2009-08-26T08:19:23Z")
Improve teacher education. Send them to Nashville to my _Alma Mater_ for [the highest ranked teacher prep](http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-education-schools/rankings) in the country. In honor of our founders, we accept the occasional Yankee in our affirmative action program, but we don’t use a quota system. May I also suggest that teachers might be consulted on how to improve education. Despite the fact that they are on the front lines, they don’t have a lot of input into how schools are run. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/195 "2009-08-26T09:16:08Z")
Oh **aaron** …my growing esteem for you has just gone into a nosedive. I mean, really…toaster ovens? Tsk. Seriously: while I agree that a massive social engineering experiment is, on the face of it, morally repugnant and doomed to failure, I think spending more time teaching children critical thinking skills would certainly help. Mind you, that would require teachers who 1) had decent critical thinking skills themselves and 2) teachers who could deal with students who start using their critical thining skills on _them_. From what I remember of my schooldays, that would be a minority of the teachers I had. I also think people need to learn how to speak Truth to Stupid. And by “stupid” I don’t mean those who disagree with you but rather those who remain willfully, stubornly ignorant. I mean the birthers, the people who think that 9/11 was a Jewish conspiracy, the woman who thinks that if we pass healthcare reform she and her children will have to line up to buy toilet paper. I mean people who reject the theory of evolution because they don’t have the slightest clue what it is. It’s remarkably easy to lie to Stupid. It’s been a staple of the media and rulers for as long as there have been media and rulers. Speaking Truth to Stupid is much harder, but sorely needed. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/196 "2009-08-26T09:48:47Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > (noting that I did not post in the first 50 posts, which indicates I probably did not say anything especially idiotic in subsequent posts, until now) > > Half of all citizens are below the mean. Wrong. Half of all citizens are below the _median_. Whether they’re below the mean or not depends on how skewed the distribution is. The population might be mostly dumb with a few bright outliers, or vice versa, putting nearly all the population below the mean, or above the mean, respectively. Construction of an hypothetical instance is left as an exercise for the student. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/197 "2009-08-26T16:20:04Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Oh **aaron** …my growing esteem for you has just gone into a nosedive. I mean, really…toaster ovens? Tsk. > > Seriously: while I agree that a massive social engineering experiment is, on the face of it, morally repugnant and doomed to failure, I think spending more time teaching children critical thinking skills would certainly help. Mind you, that would require teachers who 1) had decent critical thinking skills themselves and 2) teachers who could deal with students who start using their critical thining skills on _them_. From what I remember of my schooldays, that would be a minority of the teachers I had. > > I also think people need to learn how to speak Truth to Stupid. And by “stupid” I don’t mean those who disagree with you but rather those who remain willfully, stubornly ignorant. I mean the birthers, the people who think that 9/11 was a Jewish conspiracy, the woman who thinks that if we pass healthcare reform she and her children will have to line up to buy toilet paper. I mean people who reject the theory of evolution because they don’t have the slightest clue what it is. > > It’s remarkably easy to lie to Stupid. It’s been a staple of the media and rulers for as long as there have been media and rulers. Speaking Truth to Stupid is much harder, but sorely needed. Silly conspiracy theories are hardly limited to your adversaries. Are you planning to combat the widespread myths that, say, crack and AIDS were invented by the CIA to exterminate the black population? Absurd conspiracy theories find more fertile ground in the ghettos than anyhwere else. I’d love to know how you propose to combat THOSE ideas. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/198 "2009-08-26T16:36:53Z")
> [@Weston](#): > > Instant communication has made it possible for people to spend _hours_ every day intently poring over reams of news and opinion columns without a single contrary fact permeating their hyperbaric happy-gas ideological bubble. . So… where do you get your info? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/199 "2009-08-26T16:55:45Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Are you planning to combat the widespread myths that, say, crack and AIDS were invented by the CIA to exterminate the black population? Doesn’t help that the CIA is _partly_ responsible for the massive boom in crack production and sale in the 80s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272.md?page=9)