# Top Secret American Destupization Project **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 22, 2009, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272 "2009-08-22T02:35:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2009, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/21 "2009-08-22T04:04:01Z")
I read this book a few weeks ago and I didn’t much like it then. So who went an gave Dean Koontz an SDMB subscription so he could try a second time? ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2009, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/22 "2009-08-22T04:13:52Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Emulate the Jews, who seem to have consistent success producing smart, motivated, successful children. They do this by time-honored (though not just now especially fashionable) methods such as families with two married parents that set high standards for and pay close attention to their children’s achievement. That’s all well and good, but the issue is getting it out there in practice in every home. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2009, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/23 "2009-08-22T04:19:17Z")
Step 1: Eliminate the idea that intelligence is the enemy of religion. Unfortunately, this myth is tied up with the Republican party for some reason, so you’d need a two-pronged effort. Prong 1–Convince the shadowy heads of the Republican Party to eliminate the anti-intellectual positions from it’s official platform: the anti-evolution, the abstinence only, the anti-gay marriage. Prong 2–Set up a famous scientist as a saint. Arrange for several science related ‘miracles’, and have him become a traveling preacher, talking about his combination of science and religion. Step 2: A main fount of the ignorance comes from the currently tribal nature of politics. The easiest way to eliminate this is by forming multiple mainstream parties in the US. So eliminate First-Past-the-Post vote totaling. Then, our shadowy cabal would have to set up several astroturf groups to claim new parties in unusual positions, or break apart the Big Two into several smaller parties. With multiple parties, the ‘we’re all right, you’re all wrong’ attitude will no longer be so simple, and the tribalism will be, if not destroyed, at least become more intellectual. Step 3: Stratification of education. Right now, education is very much a ‘one-size fits all’ deal. That hurts the truly retarded, who don’t get the care they need; the average, who see benefits in learning less; and the naturally intelligent, who quickly become very bored. The best way to deal with this, I think, would be to stratify education into four or so levels, such that the student in one category gets education catered to his learning level. By separating the groups, there is no longer any reason to think that ‘dumb is cool’ among the average and above average. And if someone is demonstrating competence beyond or below their level, they could be moved. ---
**Author:** ![Civil\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d78d45/32.png) [@Civil\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Civil_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2009, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/24 "2009-08-22T04:42:50Z")
The problem is two or three-fold, as I see it. First, it’s hard to say that people are more willingly stoopid than in the past. Only things we can say with some certainty is that there are indeed more stoopid people, because there are more people and the percentage of stoopid probably hasn’t changed. Next, the stoopid have better tools at their disposal now than ever before. Now, we have to have a better way of distinguishing the truly stoopid from people who do and say stoopid things. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2009, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/25 "2009-08-22T06:59:19Z")
Electrify the lever to vote for Republican candidates? I keeed, I keeeed! ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2009, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/26 "2009-08-22T12:12:20Z")
> [@wierdaaron](#): > > "Basic knowledge of the world around us is becoming a commodity… [Redneck Joe Sixpack speaking :]umm, hey there good buddy—are you sure 'bout this?. Now, me,…I dunnno how that stuff works…'cause I’m just a monster truck driver..But I’ve heard that Commodities are traded in, like, ya know…these here places called “commodities markets”. I think those are places where people wearing fancy suits pay big money… for soybeans, for pork bellies, for oil, for silver futures, etc… Do do know any bankers who invest their money in a commodity market called “basic knowledge of the world” ? > [@](#): > > proud … to be an uneducated dummy who’d rather watch a monster truck rally than learn the name of their congressional representatives. **this is is a dangerous situation,** [Redneck Joe]"Umm, hey there good buddy—, once again, are sure 'bout this ? Now it’s true–there can be a dangerous situation sometimes at a good monster truck rally. Those engines are tough mutherf_ckers, I’ll tell ya! Hell, those suckers will explode if you don’t know what you’re doin’ with 'em. You gotta be one tough sunv’abitch and a helluva good driver to operate one…And you shure gotta know your sh_t ‘bout them pistons and exhaust manifolds. It takes a damn good mechanic to keep those babies running. Not one of them east coast liberal college-trained types with theoretical knowlege…you need a good ol’ boy from the South who really knows those suckers inside out. . [/Redneck Joe] There’s a whole industry behind those monster truck rallies…boosting profits in many branches of the economy: truck manufacturers, high-precision tool makers, highly skilled mechanics , cowboy-boot manufacturers, marketing experts, cable TV stations, even country music.How many members of the OP’s anti-stupization convention are doing anything that boosts the economy? > [@](#): > > stupidity represents not only a national security threat, but a threat to the survival of the human race, not quite… Stupidity represents a threat to us Dopers 🙂 We like to feel superior, and we’re afraid of being outnumbered… In reality, there was much more stupidity 250 years ago. The Founding Fathers were geniuses…but the majority of citizens were totally illiterate. They couldn’t have located England on a map , just like many people today can’t locate Iraq.(if they even knew what a map was—In the 1770’s it’s likely that most people had never seen a map of any kind) yeah, I get scared, too, when I read how many people don’t believe in evolution, or don’t know which countries were the bad guys in WW II . But it really doesn’t matter as much as we think.Life still goes on. Soybeans will get planted, and traded at the commodities market. The farmer who sows the beans may not know where Iraq is on the map, but the trader who sells the soybeans to Baghdad Agriculture, Inc does know. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2009, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/27 "2009-08-22T13:24:44Z")
> [@Henrichek](#): > > That’s all well and good, but the issue is getting it out there in practice in every home. Right - which argues the wisdom of making it more fashionable to be a two-parent family in which close attention is paid to children’s achievement. The notion that any change can happen in every home is wildly unrealistic. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2009, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/28 "2009-08-22T14:32:15Z")
> [@wierdaaron](#): > > Two off-the-cuff ideas I have: > > Adjust role models. Right now, kids idolize sports stars and musicians, two fields where smarts aren’t really required. If you could slowly phase out professional sports as a whole, and manipulate the market so the stupid, poor role model musicians (rappers) all fail, kids would need someone else to cling to. A simultaneous push to glamorize scientists, the way Einstein was publicized in his day, might get kids to believe that learning is cool again. You forgot Carl Sagan, who came after Einstein. And now there’s Stephen Hawking. Kids think his voice machine is cool. But the whole idea of phasing out professional sports and pushing to glamorzie scientists by way of some government program or bureaucracy (headed by a Czar?) is quite honestly infantile in its conception. There would be many Dopers who would oppose such a project anyway. They can be found in the game forum, and many of them are as smart as you are. You failed to give any details on how this would be accomplished. What kind of legislation is needed? Why would courts uphold it? > [@](#): > > The second idea is basically to let the south succeed like they’ve always wanted to. Maybe hold an amnesty program for a year where any southern resident can sell his home and buy a new one in the north tax-free, and after that, carve out the bible belt. Since most of the stupids are in southern states, and Florida itself has never been that good to our mental health, kicking them out of the playground and letting them run themselves into the ground might do everyone good. Similar to Japan after WW2, we’d have to have some kind of rule where the southern states/country aren’t allowed to own nukes or to have their own army, just to prevent a seemingly inevitable attempt to start a holy war. “Those godless yanks are working for secret muslims! We must kill the infidels, err, martyr them.. with… jesus!” Well, the South has been succeeding for some time now. That’s why the new glamor cities are Charlotte, Atlanta, Nashville, and Miami. Plus, your idea of a year to sell a home is utterly stupid. Some homes don’t sell within a year, and many people don’t care to leave God’s country for the frozen North and its rude people who talk funny. (To others: Yes, I know he meant “secede”, but he has hoisted himself by his own petard.) You’ve made two fundamental errors (aside from the unintentional ones) in your argurment that stem from your premises themselves. One: some of the smartest people are people of faith, and some of the stupidest people are atheists or agnostics, and yet you seem to be intent on tying stupidity to religion. Take a random poll on the streets of Detroit (if you dare) and see whether the gang members who remain in that desolate place have given their hearts to Jesus. Go to the countryside of Pennsylvania, where you’ll find the world headquarters of the Aryan Nation, and see how well they receive Jesus’ message to love niggers. Some of the most vicious racism in the country is north of the Maxon-Dixon line. And two: you’ve presumed that your Brave New World can be achieved by some sort of government fiat, which you haven’t bothered to explain at all. Frankly, instead of appealing to Dopers, you should have appealed to Madison Avenue. And you should have a mod fix your thread title, so it doesn’t seem, you know, ironic. ---
**Author:** ![DirkGntly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2009, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/29 "2009-08-22T14:50:39Z")
Develop and engage in genetic testing for predisposition to certain intelligence levels and learning styles. Do NOT toss out results that might show race is a factor (if that indeed happens). Develop learning programs that are tailored to these genetic factors, then segregate and teach accordingly. In this fashion, outcomes are similar, though efforts may or may not be more intensive during the learning process. Also, cut out all the bullshit, and teach REAL knowledge, like other countries…math, language, history. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2009, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/30 "2009-08-22T14:58:53Z")
> [@DirkGntly](#): > > Develop and engage in genetic testing for predisposition to certain intelligence levels and learning styles. Do NOT toss out results that might show race is a factor (if that indeed happens). Develop learning programs that are tailored to these genetic factors, then segregate and teach accordingly. In this fashion, outcomes are similar, though efforts may or may not be more intensive during the learning process. > Also, cut out all the bullshit, and teach REAL knowledge, like other countries…math, language, history. Yeah, God knows we shouldn’t teach qualities like compassion, personal responsibility, or loyalty. Otherwise, we might help each other or something. I’m not sure there is anything more stupid than these Naziesque attempts at elminating stupidity. “It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value.” Arthur C. Clarke ---
**Author:** ![DirkGntly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2009, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/31 "2009-08-22T15:05:58Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Yeah, God knows we shouldn’t teach qualities like compassion, personal responsibility, or loyalty. Otherwise, we might help each other or something. I’m not sure there is anything more stupid than these Naziesque attempts at elminating stupidity. > > “It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value.” Arthur C. Clarke Liberal - I presumed compassion, responsibility and loyalty would come from parents and community as the primary source. I also am not advocating a government-run de-stupidization program - was merely partaking in the thought exercise. I also want to clarify that I’m not promoting segregation by race, etc. I’m saying, just as a thought exercise, of course, that those with genetic predispositions to certain learning styles be taught according to the style that works best for them, and then according to tested intelligence levels. Those who need 4 years of school, in a particular style get 4 years, and those who can do it in 2, get it in 2. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2009, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/32 "2009-08-22T15:14:56Z")
Anti-intellectualism is a vital and needed force in American society. Without it we would have: -no populist sentiment; -no call to national defense or reverence toward martial activity; -no organic folkways, unmediated by sociologists and ethnographers; -no innately American religious fervor, beyond the feeble sparks of a Quaker-like pacifism; -no serious check on the power elites, whatever their political orientation; -and no patriotism - by which I mean no sense of _my country, right or wrong,_ of our national history as an instinctual, essential legacy, something not to be questioned because it has been proven by endless tests. The question is how we keep the anti-intellectual happy, peaceful (when we need him to be) and productive, and keep his ideas in the best context for all Americans - ie: not given rein to run roughshod over the culture of the mind, the ethos of world citizenship, and the principles of democracy outlined by agrarian gentlemen Founders who never anticipated a threat from the backwoods. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2009, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/33 "2009-08-22T15:35:44Z")
> [@DirkGntly](#): > > Liberal - I presumed compassion, responsibility and loyalty would come from parents and community as the primary source. I also am not advocating a government-run de-stupidization program - was merely partaking in the thought exercise. > > I also want to clarify that I’m not promoting segregation by race, etc. I’m saying, just as a thought exercise, of course, that those with genetic predispositions to certain learning styles be taught according to the style that works best for them, and then according to tested intelligence levels. Those who need 4 years of school, in a particular style get 4 years, and those who can do it in 2, get it in 2. I do appreciate your clearing that up. The problem, as with all such schemes as these, is in the administration of them. If there are only a hundred children to deal with, it’s not a big problem. But when there are a hundred million, then the administrators themselves have to be numerous and top-notch. And what happens when there’s a mistake? A kid with great potential is mistakenly lumped with the stupid ones, and vice-versa. Do they fill out a form? Who reviews it? How long must they languish in the wrong place before the problem is fixed? Especially when the ones who decide are thousands of miles away, in an area shielded from the realities of everyday life, like Washington, DC. ---
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/34 "2009-08-22T16:01:40Z")
Liberal, when you were asked to play Pin the Tail on the Donkey as a child, did you argue that a donkey without a tail wouldn’t be aided by an artificial one, and that using a pin would only be a short term solution and would simply cause the donkey pain? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/35 "2009-08-22T16:11:27Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > … > Step three-quit using the term “Alternative Medicine”, and call it “unproven medicine.” Unproven, yes. But “medicine”? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/36 "2009-08-22T16:25:00Z")
> [@wierdaaron](#): > > Liberal, when you were asked to play Pin the Tail on the Donkey as a child, did you argue that a donkey without a tail wouldn’t be aided by an artificial one, and that using a pin would only be a short term solution and would simply cause the donkey pain? Never played the game. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2009, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/37 "2009-08-22T16:33:07Z")
The flaw in the OP is the thought that stupidity is a state of being brought about by twin deficits in the accuracy of available information and the common appreciation for intelligence. This idea may be synergistic with the goals of the NEA and of the fictional POTUS, but doesn’t seem to be supported by the evidence of history, biology or philosophy. Noted epistemological authority Forrest Gump\* has argued that intelligence is interconnected with the nature of one’s actions. Or rather the converse, that “stupid is as stupid does.” In developing his Mama’s rather succinct truism, Professor Gump has demonstrated that the actions which may be included under the rubric “stupid” necessarily and specifically include the tests by which any proposition is evaluated. Rather than suffering from increased stupidity or from a reduction of glamor surrounding the idea of “intelligence” (which the OP hasn’t defined in any meaningful way), ISTM what we’re seeing is a shift in emphasis towards information and away from process. What truly distinguished the American founders and the other notable figures associated with the Enlightenment was not their emphasis on intelligence, but on _reason_; that is, the process by which factual propositions are tested. That’s what has lost it’s sheen in America; the teachable processes of thinking have been deemphasized in favor of the production and distribution of information. What you’d need to do on a state level as a leader would be to provide a constant and unaltering example of proper process. (You may have noticed a tendency in that direction from the current occupant of the White House.) What we’d need to do as a shadowy-supersecret-yet-somehow-publically-funded-organization-for-social-engineering \ would be to popularize an Enlightenment era type of public examination of ideas and supplant the “he said/she said” style of modern American journalism. Sadly, this would require either: [ul][li]the disappearance and replacement of most of our beloved television icons and Beltway pundits\*\* by a corps of replacements programmed to execute our will, ora concerted effort from our handpicked cadre of natural leaders to lift the national dialogue on each individual issue by exercising democratic priniciples of free speech assembly.[/ul][/li]The advantage of the first choice is expediency. The only advantage of the second is that, unlike the first, it’s not evil and doomed to ultimate failure. \*\*\*\*\*[sub]Since the OP is using fictional statistics, I’ll consider it copacetic to counter with a fictional authority.[/sub] \*\*\*\*\*\*[sub]Try to contain your tears[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/38 "2009-08-22T16:37:07Z")
> [@wierdaaron](#): > > Because the growth of stupidity represents not only a national security threat, but a threat to the survival of the human race, no legal or constitutional limitations should be considered in ideas for destupidization. Short of killing every last human and starting over, anything is up for consideration. > > Two trillion dollars in stimulus money have been set aside for this project, so cost or manpower will not be an issue. > > The entire project will be carried out in secret. Americans can be lied to, politics can be manipulated, absolutely anything can be done to fix the stupid problem. > > What do you propose? I propose some of you tree huggers try to stop me before I get to him, otherwise I’m taking his tyranical ass out. Nothing good ever comes of suspending legal and constitutional protections. Add to this outrage the fact that the sonuvabitch fucking kidnapped me, right before football season. He’s gonna die. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2009, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/39 "2009-08-22T16:40:33Z")
If Obama did this, I’d petition to take my vote back. What an arrogant, patronizing idea. Completely un-American, bordering on the totalitarian. Apparently freedom sucks for some people. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272/40 "2009-08-22T16:44:22Z")
1. Put sterility drugs into the concessions at all NASCAR races. The problem will solve itself in a (missing) generation. 2. Prohibit the bundling of cable channels. Make the menu completely ala carte. 3. A few selective “accidents.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-secret-american-destupization-project/507272.md?page=3)