Oh, good list!
Although I’d differ a bit:
Verdi - Rigoletto / La Traviatta (tie)
Puccini - Madame Butterfly
Gershwin - Porgy and Bess
R. Strauss - Salome
Rossini - Otello
Mozart - Don Giovanni / Le nozze di Figaro (tie)
Bizet - Carmen (yes, yes, I’m plebian. Sue me).
J. Strauss II - Die Fledermaus
Delibes - Lakme
Dvorak - Rusalka
I’d swap out Stravinsky for Antonio Vivaldi.
What, no Gluck in the opera lists? Also, does it make me horribly plebian if my top opera list included (in addition to Gluck, whom I love) Gilbert&Sullivan and Ballad of Baby Doe?
Anyway, my top 10 is more like the list Thudlow Boink quoted, with Haydn, Schubert, and Schumann taken out (I’m sorry, I know everyone else loves Haydn, and I’m willing to believe he was influential, but I just cannot stand him), and Stravinsky, Monteverdi, and Bartok put back in. Wagner’s got to stay!
What’s with all the hate for Wagner? He completely revolutionized musical theater and wrote some of the most beautiful music of all time. Act 3 of Tannhäuser is one perfect hour of bliss, I don’t believe there’s anything like it. Maybe you have to have that German Weltschmerz, but IMHO he belongs in the top 5, and not just on an opera list.
Stravinsky - you gotta be kidding.
In terms of overall influence on the development of music and aesthetic “listenability”, I’d have to say Vivaldi tops Stravinsky.
I agree entirely. Wagner is incredibly influential and his music is both complex and of the highest quality. I can understand not liking it due to personal taste (in much the same way as Mahler does nothing for me and Bruckner makes me run away screaming) but you can’t deny either his talent or his importance.
In a Vivaldi vs Stravinsky battle I’d take Stravinsky even though I’d rather listen to Vivaldi (unless we’re talking Rite of Spring or Firebird). Stravinsky was a freaking genius.
Yeah, Vivaldi was almost forgotten until he was rediscovered in the 20th century, so I don’t think he can be considered particularly influential.
The only classical music I am playing at the moment is French pianist Helene Grimaud and she is playing Rachmaninov and Ravel on CD1; Rachmaninov on CD 2; Chopin, Liszt and Schumann on CD3; Schumann and Brahms on CD 4; and more Brahms on CD5.
So they’ll do me. Until next month.
How are we defining “classical music” here? I thought you meant composers from the classical period. But several composers mentioned here are really more Romantic composers, aren’t they? And if you’re including them then-- well, you’d have to have a bit of a tin ear to not mention Chopin among the greats.
The Beatles!
The Stones!!
Elvis!
Fun to see the same discussions in classical that I see in rock.
I see Bach as like Shakespeare - the recognized foundation, where the rules and structures were established and proven with great art.
I see Mozart like James Joyce - produced some of the best work in the genres he touched, with an element of pure technique driving a powerful message
I see Beethoven like, oh, Tolstoy - epic and passionate, working on such a large scale and using large structures to ultimately speak to passion and emotion…
That’s already been hashed out in this thread…they’re using “classical” to mean orchestral/instrumental/chamber music of the baroque through the modern period (in other words, the vernacular meaning of “classical”), so everyone from Bach to Berg, pretty much.
**jayjay **and **Giles **touched on this upthread. I’m with Giles - classical music is all serious Western art music. Some people like to distinguish between baroque/classical/romantic etc. periods, but I don’t think those categorisations are by any means universally recognised.
But yeah, I’d certainly have Chopin in there.
[eta] and I see **jayjay **beat me to it
I can’t quite get behind any opera list that doesn’t include Donizetti. “Lucia di Lammermoor” by itself puts him very high.
I’m apparently going to be the first one who’s so plebian as to plug “La Boheme.” IMO, it’s as good as “Turandot,” and better then “Madame Butterfly.” Okay, maybe not better, but I like it more.
Wagner was a reprehensible a-hole whose reputation is not helped by the ideological and familial connection to Hitler, but the guy could write some wonderful music. He has to be on the top 10 of operatic composers, and probably in the top five.
For the benefit of I Love Me, I believe we can here define classical music as being instrumental, operatic, or choral music that’s generally performed in venues built with public money, that’s heavily subsidized by wealthy patrons, and that’s not usually performed live in bars. If that’s not a very good definition, well, the rest of us pretty much know what we’re talking about. I admit that Bach, Tchaikovsky, and Berg make strange bedfellows, but there you are.
Mama mia, Paganini doesn’t even rate top 50?
Not as strange as you might think: Berg incorporated both the choral “Es ist genug” and the theme B-A-C-H (or B flat-A-C-B natural) into his violin concerto “To the memory of an angel”. He is by far the least dogmatic of all the members of the Second Viennese School, and this violin concerto is actually quite enjoyable to listen to.
Not really, no.
I’m saddened but not surprised that Pergolesi didn’t make the list either. Dead at 26 yet produced the first popular comic opera (La Serva Padrona) and a serious overhaul of the sacred cantata form (Stabat Mater), both of which set the style for the rest of the 18th century. Ah well…
Drop Debussy and Stravinsky for Handel and Haydn.
I’m open to dropping Verdi for Purcell. Verdi’s a great, but not really an all-time great.
And I’d drop Bartok for Williams. Film music is still music. Imperial March, anyone?
Wouldn’t Ennio Morricone get in before John Williams?
ETA: I’m thinking specifically of the one where Tuco is searching for the grave, and the one at the end during the 3-way standoff.
I’d drop Bartok and Debussy for Haydn and Mahler.
I love Bela Bartok, but Mahler’s influence IMO is much greater. Frankly, I’d put Dvorak over Bartok as well.
I understand the author’s comment about not wanting to overwhelm the list with Viennese composers, but how can you leave out Haydn? And for Debussy? I just can’t see it.