# Top Ten Masterpieces of World Cinema? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 14, 2009, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-ten-masterpieces-of-world-cinema/521224 "2009-12-14T16:17:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jordanr2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/838e76/32.png) [@jordanr2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jordanr2)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-ten-masterpieces-of-world-cinema/521224/21 "2009-12-15T07:31:22Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > In 1962 & 1972, the Sight & Sound polls included films in the Top 10 that hadn’t even been released when the prior poll was taken. But you’d be hard-pressed to find movies now that have such an immediate and universal reaction as “one of the best ever”. I guess that’s a good thing (casting a wider net and appreciating a deeper pool), but it also makes any widespread agreement on relatively recent nominees that much more difficult. This is a really good point. There’s such diversity in film these days that coming up with a definitive list like this is an exercise in futility. For my own part, for every post-Bressonian molasses-slow film I might come across and love, there’s something like _The Black Dahlia_ or _I Know Who Killed Me_ (or _Southland Tales_, for that matter) that might throw a monkey-wrench into my critical standards. These days, how the hell do you judge what will last? ---
**Author:** ![infinitii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e8c25b/32.png) [@infinitii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/infinitii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-ten-masterpieces-of-world-cinema/521224/22 "2009-12-15T09:33:40Z")
> [@jordanr2](#): > > This is a really good point. There’s such diversity in film these days that coming up with a definitive list like this is an exercise in futility. For my own part, for every post-Bressonian molasses-slow film I might come across and love, there’s something like _The Black Dahlia_ or _I Know Who Killed Me_ (or _Southland Tales_, for that matter) that might throw a monkey-wrench into my critical standards. These days, how the hell do you judge what will last? Whoa – I thought I was the only one who liked “I Know Who Killed Me”. The director definitely was a Kieslowski fan, don’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![jordanr2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/838e76/32.png) [@jordanr2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jordanr2)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-ten-masterpieces-of-world-cinema/521224/23 "2009-12-15T21:45:53Z")
> [@infinitii](#): > > Whoa – I thought I was the only one who liked “I Know Who Killed Me”. The director definitely was a Kieslowski fan, don’t you think? absolutely - one of the more delightful films this decade to allude to _Veronique_ - and of course that color scheme! ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-ten-masterpieces-of-world-cinema/521224/24 "2009-12-15T22:54:04Z")
> [@jordanr2](#): > > This is a really good point. There’s such diversity in film these days that coming up with a definitive list like this is an exercise in futility. For my own part, for every post-Bressonian molasses-slow film I might come across and love, there’s something like _The Black Dahlia_ or _I Know Who Killed Me_ (or _Southland Tales_, for that matter) that might throw a monkey-wrench into my critical standards. These days, how the hell do you judge what will last? Huh. Please explain. Black Dahlia and Southland Tales were two of the most horrifyingly unpleasant movie experiences of my life. And I had NO plans whatsoever to subject myself to IKWKM. Now, as someone include Showgirls in his lifetime topten list, I’m wiiiiiiide open to unconventional takes on unpopular movies. But I will need clarification on these titles please. ---
**Author:** ![infinitii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e8c25b/32.png) [@infinitii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/infinitii)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-ten-masterpieces-of-world-cinema/521224/25 "2009-12-16T00:05:32Z")
> [@jordanr2](#): > > absolutely - one of the more delightful films this decade to allude to _Veronique_ - and of course that color scheme! Are you aware of other movies this decade that have “Veronique” as a reference? I only ask because it’s one of my favourite movies, and Kieslowski is my favourite director, and I’m always on the lookout. To make my post seem more on topic, maybe I can add “Dekalog” to the list? ---
**Author:** ![jordanr2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/838e76/32.png) [@jordanr2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jordanr2)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-ten-masterpieces-of-world-cinema/521224/26 "2009-12-16T06:10:31Z")
> [@infinitii](#): > > Are you aware of other movies this decade that have “Veronique” as a reference? I only ask because it’s one of my favourite movies, and Kieslowski is my favourite director, and I’m always on the lookout. > > To make my post seem more on topic, maybe I can add “Dekalog” to the list? _Inland Empire_ is certainly among such films, if we’re talking about doubled characters. I might also say _Mulholland Drive_ but I don’t find it nearly as audacious as IE. ---
**Author:** ![jordanr2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/838e76/32.png) [@jordanr2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jordanr2)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-ten-masterpieces-of-world-cinema/521224/27 "2009-12-16T06:14:39Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Huh. Please explain. Black Dahlia and Southland Tales were two of the most horrifyingly unpleasant movie experiences of my life. And I had NO plans whatsoever to subject myself to IKWKM. Now, as someone include Showgirls in his lifetime topten list, I’m wiiiiiiide open to unconventional takes on unpopular movies. But I will need clarification on these titles please. _Black Dahlia_ is just a sordid, thoroughly unpleasant treat - for me, the blend of inept performances and totally professional and brilliant ones somehow came together perfectly. I think it’s one that requires a few viewings, because the plot is admittedly convoluted, but I can’t imagine any cinephile not being thrilled by Fiona Shaw’s final scene toward the end. _Southland Tales_ - yeah there’s a lot of stupidity to it, but I like the way it bucks convention with all these absurd performances, its general self-indulgence. And “All These Things That I’ve Done”! As for IKWKM, it’s another one superficially full of stupidity, but somehow the film fights past the director’s attempts to render it as a dumb teen-oriented thriller and achieves genuine art on a few occasions. In particular, I love one scene with Lindsay Lohan smoking on a bus at night as her fingers rot off. Perfect pop surrealism. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-ten-masterpieces-of-world-cinema/521224/28 "2009-12-16T06:22:51Z")
> [@jordanr2](#): > > _Black Dahlia_ is just a sordid, thoroughly unpleasant treat - for me, the blend of inept performances and totally professional and brilliant ones somehow came together perfectly. I think it’s one that requires a few viewings, because the plot is admittedly convoluted, but I can’t imagine any cinephile not being thrilled by Fiona Shaw’s final scene toward the end. > > _Southland Tales_ - yeah there’s a lot of stupidity to it, but I like the way it bucks convention with all these absurd performances, its general self-indulgence. And “All These Things That I’ve Done”! > > As for IKWKM, it’s another one superficially full of stupidity, but somehow the film fights past the director’s attempts to render it as a dumb teen-oriented thriller and achieves genuine art on a few occasions. In particular, I love one scene with Lindsay Lohan smoking on a bus at night as her fingers rot off. Perfect pop surrealism. Yes, for me the least horrible part of BD was the operatic melodramatic drag queen camp of Shaw’s climactic scene. But it felt like pure camp, not applied: unintentional. ST, I may never know, because I’d rather feed my face to weasels than undergo that again. But I’m curious to watch IKWKM now, through a Kieslowski lens. Will report back. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-ten-masterpieces-of-world-cinema/521224/29 "2009-12-16T06:24:10Z")
> [@jordanr2](#): > > _Inland Empire_ is certainly among such films, if we’re talking about doubled characters. I might also say _Mulholland Drive_ but I don’t find it nearly as audacious as IE. IE was a favorite for me, more than MD, but TDLoV never occurred to me. I’ll have to keep that in mind next time I live through that. ---
**Author:** ![jordanr2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/838e76/32.png) [@jordanr2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jordanr2)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-ten-masterpieces-of-world-cinema/521224/30 "2009-12-16T06:43:50Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Yes, for me the least horrible part of BD was the operatic melodramatic drag queen camp of Shaw’s climactic scene. But it felt like pure camp, not applied: unintentional. ST, I may never know, because I’d rather feed my face to weasels than undergo that again. But I’m curious to watch IKWKM now, through a Kieslowski lens. Will report back. cool! I didn’t expect much of anything from IKWKM at first, but a friend of mine who deliberately rejects critical standards told me what a pleasure it was, and I was amazed to find that he was pretty much right. As for Shaw’s scenes, I have no doubt that she meant all that to happen, given that she’s a great actress elsewhere. Even so, as Sontag pointed out, pure, unintentional camp is the best kind! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/top-ten-masterpieces-of-world-cinema/521224.md?page=1)