# Torchwood and the Whoniverse **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 31, 2008, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torchwood-and-the-whoniverse/451229 "2008-05-31T03:19:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torchwood-and-the-whoniverse/451229/21 "2008-06-01T04:10:11Z")
Also, I felt like Jack and Ianto’s relationship kinda stepped on Ianto’s character development. He’s at Jack’s beck and call, obviously the weaker person. He doesn’t grieve for his gf for very long, either. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torchwood-and-the-whoniverse/451229/22 "2008-06-01T14:59:25Z")
[QUOTE=Gorgon Heap] **jayjay** , and others, I first though of the Jack-on-Jack kissing scene as pandering, but you may be right. The whole episode revolved around the tragedy of the war, and that, at the very last moment of the episode, was the clincher. I’ll have to re-watch it now. [/QUOTE] I thought that the episode was well done in tone and mood. The problem I had was with the fact that it was in 1940. It seemed phony and forced to have them dance and kiss at a military gathering in front of his men. And everyone stood there like they were part of the scenery. It was 1940. It was the military. There would be outrage. They probably would have refused to fly with him. There would have been _something_. Stylistically I thought it was done well. The reality of the situation jarred me right out of the show. > [@](#): > > Also, I felt like Jack and Ianto’s relationship kinda stepped on Ianto’s character development. He’s at Jack’s beck and call, obviously the weaker person. He doesn’t grieve for his gf for very long, either. I never thought of it that way but you are right. If they want to make the character anything more than background then they need to move that relationship along or move past it. Otherwise he’ll just be the guy who gets the coffee. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torchwood-and-the-whoniverse/451229/23 "2008-06-01T16:05:01Z")
[QUOTE=Loach] And everyone stood there like they were part of the scenery. It was 1940. It was the military. There would be outrage. They probably would have refused to fly with him. There would have been _something_. [/QUOTE] Little did Jack know that his dancing/kissing is what caused one of the original Capt Jack’s men to shoot him down when the opportunity came during their mission the next day (“Take that you fucking queer!”). Oh temporal paradoxes, why do you mock us so?!?!? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torchwood-and-the-whoniverse/451229/24 "2008-06-01T16:25:23Z")
[QUOTE=Loach] I thought that the episode was well done in tone and mood. The problem I had was with the fact that it was in 1940. [/QUOTE] That’s the thing. It was 1940. There was no such thing as gay rights. It was Europe. Two guys get up and dance together. How cute. Prolly had a little too much to drink. Unless you were a flaming queer in a seedy part of town two straight-acting guys hugging or putting their arms around each other or even racking out in the same bed would be assumed to just be a couple buddies. Two guys getting up and dancing would probably result in a whole bunch of cognitive disconnect all over. Most people probably would be thinking, “silly boys.” Well, until the obviously passionate kiss. In that day and age if you were straight acting you were straight. No such thing as gay. Heck, think about that old show _The Odd Couple_. It was hilarious, two guys living like man and wife. People didn’t think “FAGS!!!” That came later. These days you can’t mention Batman & Robin without getting snickers, but times were different then. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torchwood-and-the-whoniverse/451229/25 "2008-06-01T17:49:54Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] These days you can’t mention Batman & Robin without getting snickers, but times were different then. [/QUOTE] Really? Okay, I’ll give it a shot. “Batman and Robin”. Hey, where are my Snickers? :mad: _Leaves the room to sate his chocolate fixation some other way_ ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torchwood-and-the-whoniverse/451229/26 "2008-06-01T19:17:01Z")
[QUOTE=Illuminatiprimus] Really? Okay, I’ll give it a shot. “Batman and Robin”. [/QUOTE] Laugh it up furball. You’re gonna get it. :mad: 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torchwood-and-the-whoniverse/451229/27 "2008-06-01T19:44:58Z")
[QUOTE=Love Rhombus] Also, I felt like Jack and Ianto’s relationship kinda stepped on Ianto’s character development. He’s at Jack’s beck and call, obviously the weaker person. He doesn’t grieve for his gf for very long, either. [/QUOTE] If you saw the second-to-last episode of the second season, you’d know that Ianto is basically everyone’s bitch (butler-wise) because that was how he got his job. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torchwood-and-the-whoniverse/451229/28 "2008-06-01T20:11:27Z")
I saw the second season, but can’t remember Ianto’s story. Can you remind me (perhaps in a spoiler box)? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torchwood-and-the-whoniverse/451229/29 "2008-06-01T20:27:05Z")
Ianto is to Jack what Alfred is to Batman. He’s not just a butler. If you need someone who knows how to make it happen, Ianto is your man. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torchwood-and-the-whoniverse/451229/30 "2008-06-01T20:30:03Z")
[QUOTE=Dewey Finn] I saw the second season, but can’t remember Ianto’s story. Can you remind me (perhaps in a spoiler box)? [/QUOTE] We see it in the second-to-last episode, where we see the stories of how everyone (except Gwen, obviously) made it into Torchwood. Ianto had been working for Torchwood London when they got wrecked by the Cybermen. Then Cardiff severed all ties with them, and Ianto came to beg Jack for a position in Cardiff. He kept turning him away, but when Jack finally accepted him it was after Ianto gave a “I’ll make the coffee and clean the bathrooms and blah blah be everyone’s butler if that’s what it takes”. I’m not too clear if he was so desperate for that so that he could get Cybergirl fixed, or if he just didn’t like not being part of a Torchwood place that gets to see all the cool stuff that goes on. -Joe [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torchwood-and-the-whoniverse/451229.md?page=1)