# Torino? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 4, 2006, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torino/342958 "2006-02-04T04:20:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Antonius\_Block](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Antonius\_Block](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antonius_Block)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torino/342958/41 "2006-02-06T05:58:34Z")
> [@633squadron](#): > > What I notice is that, in English, none of the French city names changed! There’s not only the Marseille _(Fr)_ / Marseilles _(Eng)_ change mentioned previously, but also Lyon / Lyons, Reims / Rheims, and Dunkerque / Dunkirk, plus probably others that I can’t think of right now. Admittedly they are just minor alterations of the spelling, but they exist. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torino/342958/42 "2006-02-06T06:38:06Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Interesting that Indian names for _provinces_ stay the same, but not for some other things like major rivers. Isn’t the French Canadian spelling for the Ottawa River some abomination along the lines of _Ouatouais_ ? Actually, _rivière des Outaouais_ is one of only three examples that I can come up with where a different transliteration is used for a watercourse’s aboriginal-derived name in English and French, besides accents (lac Érié, rivière Matapédia). The other two are the Restigouche River (rivière Ristigouche) in New Brunswick, and Lake Timiskaming (lac Témiscamingue), on the (heh) Ottawa River between Ontario and Quebec. In these cases, it’s really the English whose spelling varied, as the French were there before they were. (“Outaouais” is the French term for the Ottawa people, as well as the modern demonym for people from the city of Ottawa.) All others are the same (lac Winnipeg, chutes Niagara, rivière Athabasca). See [the fedgov’s Names of Pan-Canadian Significance](http://geonames.nrcan.gc.ca/info/pan_can_e.php) for examples. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/96bed5/32.png) [@Cat\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Jones)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torino/342958/43 "2006-02-06T06:41:18Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > In fact… “Turin” sounds suspiciously French to me (o -\> u, drop the vowel ending). I bet we got it from the French, and considering how close Torino is to France, this would make sense. Any French speakers available for comment? Turin was at one time capital of the Kingdom of Savoy (Savoie) which encompassed parts of both Italy and France. (Albertville, which had the winter Olympics in the early 90s is also in Savoy). The French write “Turin” but the “in” sounds more like a short “an” with the ‘n’ not really finished. To those criticizing the different rendering of city names in different languages - remember that there has been interaction and trade between the European peoples for millennia, borders have fulctuated; traders have spoken each other’s languages I don’t think there is any arrogance about it, we’re certainly not telling the French how to pronounce Paris for example. The situation just evolved naturally here. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torino/342958/44 "2006-02-06T11:18:44Z")
> [@633squadron](#): > > What I notice is that, in English, none of the French city names changed! Paris is Paris, Carcasonne is Carcasonne, Toulon is Toulon, Marseilles is Marseilles, and Val-Thorens is Val-Thorens. Even Caen is Caen and Cannes is Nice er Cannes (old joke). Well, Nouveau Orleans became New Orleans, but that was presumably after the city had been under new management for a fair amount of time. I’m kind of amused at how American cities formerly founded by people from other nations (most notably the old Spanish/Mexican cities and towns in the Southwestern US.) In most cases, they pretty much are spelled the same but pronounced differently. Towns and cities that straddle the Texas/Mexico border may have similar names (Laredo and Nuevo Laredo) or completley different ones (El Paso and Cuidad Juarez). In any case, I would like to suggest that how WE say “Paris, France” in College Station is The Correct Way to say it. In College Station Texas, that is. Similarly, whatever odd way of saying “College Station, Texas” they may have in France, if they ever bothered to formulate their own pronounciation for our quaint college town, would be The Correct Way to say it. In Paris, France. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torino/342958/45 "2006-02-06T11:31:46Z")
> [@633squadron](#): > > What I notice is that, in English, none of the French city names changed! Paris is Paris, Carcasonne is Carcasonne, Toulon is Toulon, Marseilles is Marseilles, and Val-Thorens is Val-Thorens. Even Caen is Caen and Cannes is Nice er Cannes (old joke). Well, Nouveau Orleans became New Orleans, but that was presumably after the city had been under new management for a fair amount of time. I’m kind of amused at how American cities formerly founded by people from other nations (most notably the old Spanish/Mexican cities and towns in the Southwestern US.) In most cases, they pretty much are spelled the same but pronounced differently. Towns and cities that straddle the Texas/Mexico border may have similar names (Laredo and Nuevo Laredo) or completley different ones (El Paso and Cuidad Juarez). In any case, I would like to suggest that how WE say “Paris, France” in College Station is The Correct Way to say it. In College Station Texas, that is. Similarly, whatever odd way of saying “College Station, Texas” they may have in France, if they ever bothered to formulate their own pronounciation for our quaint college town, would be The Correct Way to say it. In Paris, France. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torino/342958/46 "2006-02-06T11:33:17Z")
Agh, I just want to apologize to everyone for the rash of double posts from me lately, my internet connection is all sorts of weird these past couple weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torino/342958/47 "2006-02-06T18:27:28Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > Actually, _rivière des Outaouais_ is one of only three examples that I can come up with where a different transliteration is used for a watercourse’s aboriginal-derived name in English and French, besides accents (lac Érié, rivière Matapédia). Indiana’s state river is the Wabash. Near Terre Haute, Indiana (on the Wabash river) is an elementary school named Oabache. [hijack]My (Hoosier) friend called up the school district asking for the number of ‘Oh-ah-bah-chee’ school. The person didn’t know what she was talking about. “Oh, you mean ‘Wabash’ school.” The person on the phone thought my friend was stupid because she didn’t know the pronunciation of Oabache. Well, if you go years always seeing it spelled Wabash…[/hijack] Also, the Illini tribe/nation had a chief called Illiniwa (English transliteration). Naturally, the french spelled it Illinois. Now, of course, we pronounce that “ell-\-noi” (I’m originally from right near Illinois) (I have no idea how to write out pronounciations) ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torino/342958/48 "2006-02-06T18:41:22Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Until this thread, I had no idea that Turin and Torino were the same place. One is in Italia and the other’s in Italy. ---
**Author:** ![Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Man_With_a_Cat)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torino/342958/49 "2006-02-06T18:49:24Z")
> [@Jamaika a jamaikaiaké](#): > > …Also, the Illini tribe/nation had a chief called Illiniwa (English transliteration). Naturally, the french spelled it Illinois. Now, of course, we pronounce that “ell-\-noi” (I’m originally from right near Illinois)… Which might explain why you pronounce it wrong. Most people I know here (in Illinois) pronounce the first syllable “ill”, not “ell”. ---
**Author:** ![Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Man_With_a_Cat)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torino/342958/50 "2006-02-06T18:54:16Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > In English, we say “cow,” when the French call it “vache.” Is it arrogant not to say “vache” when referring to a French cow? We’re making up a whole other word to call a vache! There’s a hilarious joke in there somewhere, but I can’t think of a single notoriously unattractive french woman’s name to use. But trust me, it’s funny. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torino/342958/51 "2006-02-06T19:21:05Z")
[The Master Speaks](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_162.html) on a different but related topic–why we call it Germany ---
**Author:** ![Antonius\_Block](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Antonius\_Block](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antonius_Block)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torino/342958/52 "2006-02-06T21:08:26Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > Well, Nouveau Orleans became New Orleans, but that was presumably after the city had been under new management for a fair amount of time. [nitpick] **La Nouvelle Orléans** in French, although I’ve also seen it without the definite article in front. [Cite](http://www.consulfrance-nouvelleorleans.org/index.asp) (note that the linked page consistently refers to _la Nouvelle Orléans_, but the page’s title is _Consulat de France de Nouvelle Orléans_.) [/nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torino/342958/53 "2006-02-08T15:36:09Z")
> [@Mr Bus Guy](#): > > There’s a hilarious joke in there somewhere, but I can’t think of a single notoriously unattractive french woman’s name to use. But trust me, it’s funny. Would that be related to _la vache qui rit_? Because that joke would just be cheesy. Sorry… ---
**Author:** ![rivulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rivulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rivulus)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torino/342958/54 "2006-02-08T17:22:40Z")
> [@Speaker for the Dead](#): > > They, don’t, really, in my experience. In the same way most people would look at, say, an Icelandic city name, they say the first and last sounds and sort of fill the rest in with improvised mumbling. For example, I’ve heard “sezchuan” more than once. Good to know I live in China! Continuing the hijack, I once received a package from my folks in Saskatoon, sent to where I live in Missouri. Apparently the customs folks mistook Saskatchewan Canada for Szechuan (Sichuan) China – and I got a big whopping import bill from them in the process. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torino/342958.md?page=2)