# Toronto Attack - Police Arrest Suspect; Police Professionalism Appreciation Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 24, 2018, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toronto-attack-police-arrest-suspect-police-professionalism-appreciation-thread/813043 "2018-04-24T14:04:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toronto-attack-police-arrest-suspect-police-professionalism-appreciation-thread/813043/41 "2018-04-25T20:14:59Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I bet he graduated York University. I don’t know where this comes from or what you think you heard, but York comes in respectably about the middle of the pack in the top 26 universities in Canada. This guy went to Seneca, which is a community college not even in the same class as a university. Back to the topic, [this op-ed at CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/24/opinions/canada-shows-the-world-the-right-way-to-face-up-to-evil-cohen/index.html) is a good overview of police, press, and public response to the incident. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toronto-attack-police-arrest-suspect-police-professionalism-appreciation-thread/813043/42 "2018-04-25T20:29:42Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > So, are we sure this cat was “crazy” or is that just your particular prejudice? Would you be just as comfortable saying, “…Again, the officer is lucky that the Armenian wasn’t …”? > > Being a murderous asshole doesn’t require one to be mentally ill. As a “crazy” I am uneasy with folks making those sorts of unfounded associations. How many sane people decide to rent a box truck, rev it up, and run down as many people as they can? Even if he doesn’t meet the M’Naghten standard, he counts as ‘crazy’ in my book, and I suspect, most other people’s. Not crazy enough to dodge a jail sentence, but absolutely abhorrent, psychotic behavior. As a ‘crazy’, are you violent? Have you threatened violence against another? If not, then I don’t see how your particular mental state or condition is of any relevance here. And if so, and your condition is not in remission, then why are you still walking around and are able to post here? I’m prejudiced against violent people who, apropos of nothing, decide to try and murder a group of people they’ve never met. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toronto-attack-police-arrest-suspect-police-professionalism-appreciation-thread/813043/43 "2018-04-25T20:56:07Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Even if he doesn’t meet the M’Naghten standard, he counts as ‘crazy’ in my book, and I suspect, most other people’s. Not crazy enough to dodge a jail sentence, but absolutely abhorrent, psychotic behavior. So, folks who do stuff you don’t like, for reasons you don’t readily understand are simply “crazy” regardless of actual diagnostic criteria. Beats wasting the effort wondering about their motivations or problems doesn’t it. You don’t see the issue with using a blanket term which describes everything from depression to complete detachment from reality, to describe the worst elements of society. So you’re totes groovy with equating and marginalizing “crazy” people without further consideration. Distrust them all, dehumanize them all, shucks why not just round them all up and gas the creatures, right? Because they’re crazy. They don’t think ‘right’ like you do. Whatever. Don’t take this as a personal attack, you’re not the only one who thinks like that. Nobody else gives a fuck anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toronto-attack-police-arrest-suspect-police-professionalism-appreciation-thread/813043/44 "2018-04-26T01:24:14Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > So you’re totes groovy with equating and marginalizing “crazy” people without further consideration. Distrust them all, dehumanize them all, shucks why not just round them all up and gas the creatures, right? Because they’re crazy. :rolleyes: Because that’s totally what he said. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toronto-attack-police-arrest-suspect-police-professionalism-appreciation-thread/813043/45 "2018-04-26T03:04:59Z")
He is not crazy? He is bat-shit-crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toronto-attack-police-arrest-suspect-police-professionalism-appreciation-thread/813043/46 "2018-04-26T10:09:19Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > 1. Leaving concealment (the police car) to confront a potentially-armed, violent assailant, is generally a bad idea. Again, the officer is lucky that the crazy wasn’t harmed with a handgun or other concealed firearm. Staying in concealment makes you look scared, not-in-control. Looking like you’re scared of them isn’t very helpful when you’re trying to get someone to Do As I Say. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toronto-attack-police-arrest-suspect-police-professionalism-appreciation-thread/813043/47 "2018-04-26T10:37:57Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > We don’t really have the same racial dichotomy here in Canada. > > Do we have racists? Sure, every country does, but overall race is not much of a cultural issue here. Sure, ask any Indian. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toronto-attack-police-arrest-suspect-police-professionalism-appreciation-thread/813043/48 "2018-04-26T10:54:25Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > The police officer showed bravery and admirable restraint. It probably helps that in Canada, fewer people have handguns to begin with so there police have less reason to fear armed suspects. The guy said he had a gun but what he was waiving around didn’t look like a gun to the officer. Also, the officer may have surmised that if the suspect’s goal was to be shot in the head and he already had a gun, he wouldn’t have asked the officer for help to accomplish that goal. In the end, the officer made the right decision. It would have been completely understandable had the officer shot the suspect though. That’s a tough, pressure-filled situation to be in. If one watches the video there are a couple of big clues that the guy wasn’t an actual threat and was going for suicide-by-cop. Firstly, although he had an object in his hand he kept saying “I have a gun in my pocket”. Not “I have a gun” but “I have a gun _in my pocket_”. If his intent was to threaten, he would have actually been holding the alleged gun (or would have mentioned a potential bomb). Secondly, he overtly told the officer “Shoot me in the head” several times. That’s not the statement of a man looking to either escape or kill; that’s someone looking to die. So I don’t think the risks **Gray Ghost** flags were as high as they might have been under other circumstances, and the officer clearly read the situation correctly and responded appropriately. And well done to him, I say. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toronto-attack-police-arrest-suspect-police-professionalism-appreciation-thread/813043/49 "2018-04-26T11:01:09Z")
I wonder whether having more of these asshole terrorists in prison might help dissuade others of their ilk from going for their Grand Guignol murderschemes. It seems to be a particular sort of sociopath who decides to go out in a blaze of glory, taking a lot of others with them. If instead they’re locked in a box for decades, maybe the glory doesn’t look so glorious? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toronto-attack-police-arrest-suspect-police-professionalism-appreciation-thread/813043/50 "2018-04-26T11:35:06Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > AIUI, in the US, to train away this impulse, LEOs in training are often shown, among other things, a [video of the death of Laurens County (GA) Sheriff’s Deputy Kyle Dinkheller.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kyle_Dinkheller) In the video, Officer Dinkheller conducted a traffic stop for speeding. The driver, Andrew Brannan, became uncooperative, agitated—including asking the officer to shoot him—and ultimately retrieved a carbine from his vehicle, with which he killed Officer Dinkheller. Further, allegedly, Dinkheller had been admonished by his command, prior to this incident for unholstering his weapon too quickly in a prior traffic stop, and it’s theorized—that the fear of being reprimanded again or fired is what stayed his hand from shooting Brannan. I think it is reasonable to infer that Toronto officers are similarly hesitant to use lethal force, after the Yatim disaster. That sounds like irresponsible training. By taking this one incident, an anecdote, and inflating it as the most important thing, they overly inflate the danger to the cop, causing him to believe the danger is higher than it actually is. And a cop very much needs to be able to make a rational assessment of the odds to make a decision. I don’t think the cop here really get lucky. I think he considered the odds, and took what to him was an acceptable level of risk. He internalized the priority of minimizing casualties, rather than the priority of protecting himself. In my opinion, police officers should always be the most rational people on the scene. What they need training in is remaining calm in the face of extremely high stress. They need training in making the most rational decision quickly. They need to be able to respond quickly to changing circumstances. They should not be catastrophizing–basing their decisions on the worst possible outcome. This is why I absolutely abhor fear mongering used as “training” or “teaching.” You’re teaching the wrong thing. Catastrophizing leads to irrational overreactions. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toronto-attack-police-arrest-suspect-police-professionalism-appreciation-thread/813043/51 "2018-04-26T12:53:00Z")
[Officer who arrested van attack suspect rejects hero label, deputy chief says](http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/police-officer-van-attack-press-conference-1.4634995) > [@](#): > > Toronto police Deputy Chief Peter Yuen says the police officer who apprehended the suspect in Monday’s deadly van attack doesn’t want to be considered a hero. > > Const. Ken Lam received widespread praise for his non-violent arrest of a suspect who claimed he had a gun. > > Yuen said Lam didn’t want the focus to be on him, but on the other first responders, Good Samaritans and witnesses who were at the scene on Yonge Street in north Toronto. > > “He wants to make sure everyone understands he was not a hero. He was merely doing a job,” Yuen said. “The hero status, he doesn’t want it, but he’s very appreciative [of it].” ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toronto-attack-police-arrest-suspect-police-professionalism-appreciation-thread/813043/52 "2018-04-26T13:26:45Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > Sure, ask any Indian. Absolutely, there is that dichotomy: Native Canadians and non-native Canadians. However, shameful as that is, it is largely out of sight of Torontonians; there are of course Native Canadians in Toronto, but they are a quite small minority. In 2006, only 0.5% of the population of Toronto was of aboriginal heritage. > **[2006 Aboriginal Population Profile for Toronto](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/89-638-x/2009001/article/10825-eng.htm)** > > 2006 Aboriginal Population Profile for Toronto. 2006 Aboriginal Population Profiles for Selected Cities and Communities: Ontario ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toronto-attack-police-arrest-suspect-police-professionalism-appreciation-thread/813043/53 "2018-04-26T13:31:17Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I wonder whether having more of these asshole terrorists in prison might help dissuade others of their ilk from going for their Grand Guignol murderschemes. It seems to be a particular sort of sociopath who decides to go out in a blaze of glory, taking a lot of others with them. If instead they’re locked in a box for decades, maybe the glory doesn’t look so glorious? I agree; this guy wanted to go out in a hail of police bullets. He outright said as much. Instead, the officer pulled out his baton - the message being ‘if you don’t comply, you will be made to comply, painfully’ - and the guy surrendered immediately. It is no motivation to give them what they want. Unfortunately, we can’t avoid giving them publicity, but we can hopefully avoid giving them a glorious martyrdom. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toronto-attack-police-arrest-suspect-police-professionalism-appreciation-thread/813043.md?page=2)