# Toronto Police Advise Residents to make Car Keys Easily Available to Thieves **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 19, 2024, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toronto-police-advise-residents-to-make-car-keys-easily-available-to-thieves/999037 "2024-03-19T12:57:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toronto-police-advise-residents-to-make-car-keys-easily-available-to-thieves/999037/81 "2024-03-21T13:26:01Z")
I think U.S. gun laws are tragically ridiculous. I wish the Second Amendment were repealed. Our gun culture is disgraceful. And I also think the U.S. has it right that it’s reasonable to assume someone breaking into your house is a threat to your life. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toronto-police-advise-residents-to-make-car-keys-easily-available-to-thieves/999037/82 "2024-03-21T13:27:30Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > But if I, a 200 lb man open the door and start blasting and it turns out I killed an unarmed scrawny high school student, I’m boned. Or a career criminal with no record of violence, also unarmed. Probably boned. That sounds great to me. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toronto-police-advise-residents-to-make-car-keys-easily-available-to-thieves/999037/83 "2024-03-21T19:42:53Z")
I’m in Canada. I would not assume a home intruder would be armed with a gun. I would not attempt to confront anyone (and wouldn’t worry about medical costs if I had to). I would defend my family but not my _stuff_ to the point of risking my life. I think the baseline assumptions about what a “home invasion” looks like are likely to be very different for me, and probably a lot of Canadians, than they are for a lot of Americans. I don’t worry about gun violence in the same way I don’t worry about getting struck by lightning when carrying an umbrella. It’s not impossible, and I’ll avoid large fields in a thunderstorm, but otherwise it’s just not a concern. For the few people I know who have had things stolen from their homes, it was always when they were away and always things easily grabbed and visible. The people I’ve known who have had their cars stolen woke up to discover their car gone; they still had their keys. Maybe I’ve just been lucky. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toronto-police-advise-residents-to-make-car-keys-easily-available-to-thieves/999037/84 "2024-03-21T20:34:10Z")
People don’t have to have a gun to be life threatening. Knives work too, and fists. And of course my wife would be at risk of rape. So this Canadian will use whatever tools are at my disposal to stop a home invasion. I will not sit back and hope that the invaders are not feeling particularly murderous or rapey today. Violate my home, and find out. I’ll do the jail time before I’ll be passive in the face of dire threats to my home and family. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toronto-police-advise-residents-to-make-car-keys-easily-available-to-thieves/999037/85 "2024-03-21T21:00:20Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > People don’t have to have a gun to be life threatening. Knives work too, and fists. If knives or fists are just as effective as a gun is, why is it so many people insist guns are a necessity for defending themselves? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toronto-police-advise-residents-to-make-car-keys-easily-available-to-thieves/999037/86 "2024-03-21T21:43:22Z")
I would try to avoid a confrontation if possible. For example, I might yell down the stairs “I called the cops!” if I heard intruders on the first floor. Not sure if that’s a good move or it makes matters worse, but I definitely wouldn’t be running down the stairs with guns blazing (I don’t have any guns to blaze). But in the scenario described before, if I was armed and hiding in a closet from an intruder threatening to “mess me up bad,” when he flings the door open he’s getting a couple in the chest. If this is as Sam describes in Canada, and that results in troubles for me—well, in at least this one gun-related matter the U.S. has it right, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toronto-police-advise-residents-to-make-car-keys-easily-available-to-thieves/999037/87 "2024-03-21T22:19:23Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Thieves are bad people making bad decisions. They’ve already made the bad decision of breaking into my house to steal my car. I now have a choice: > > 1. get into a gunfight over the car where the best case scenario is a dead guy seeping blood into my floor, a few dozen cops, lawyers, and hopefully I don’t get charged with a felony, and the worst case scenario is also a dead guy seeping blood into my floor… me. > 2. let the guy take the car and call Liberty Mutual. You’re starting from the premise that the thief is making bad decisions, and then reason from the assumption that they’re making good decisions. If you’re physically present (as implied by it being even a possibility that you’d shoot the intruder), then once they’re in your house, they might just make the bad decision “Hey, I’ll take the car keys and also shoot that guy, so I can loot his wallet off of his corpse”. You don’t know, and since the invader is already making irrational decisions, it’s very difficult to guess. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toronto-police-advise-residents-to-make-car-keys-easily-available-to-thieves/999037/88 "2024-03-21T23:36:10Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If knives or fists are just as effective as a gun is, why is it so many people insist guns are a necessity for defending themselves? At no point did I say that they are ‘just as effective’ as guns. Where did that come from? There are lots of lethal things, and they all vary in their lethality. Some people can defend themselves vith with their fists. Many can’t. A gun is a great equalizer that allows the weak and small to defend themselves just l8ke the big and powerful. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2024, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toronto-police-advise-residents-to-make-car-keys-easily-available-to-thieves/999037/89 "2024-03-22T14:58:00Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If knives or fists are just as effective as a gun is, why is it so many people insist guns are a necessity for defending themselves? Knives/fists are not as effective as a gun. But if you’re cornered by an intruder threatening to stab or strangle you to death, do you want: A) a fair fight, or B) odds that are strongly in your favor? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2024, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toronto-police-advise-residents-to-make-car-keys-easily-available-to-thieves/999037/90 "2024-03-22T15:39:05Z")
I don’t want to start a hijack. I was just pointing out that gun advocates want to claim both sides of the argument. If you suggest that guns are an especially dangerous weapon and should therefore be regulated, they will argue that people can kill each other with knives or their hands so there’s no point in singling out guns. But if you suggest that knives or hands are therefore adequate for the needs of self-defense, they’ll turn around and argue that they aren’t as effective as guns so guns are necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2024, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toronto-police-advise-residents-to-make-car-keys-easily-available-to-thieves/999037/91 "2024-03-22T15:44:47Z")
You’re arguing something no one in this thread has said. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2024, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toronto-police-advise-residents-to-make-car-keys-easily-available-to-thieves/999037/92 "2024-03-22T20:18:00Z")
Police routinely catch people, as per below. In general, they say the penalties for car theft are much higher in the US and so do not deter Canadian criminals (note many previously arrested). I also believe some Quebec insurance companies demand and give discounts for car trackers or other protective technology. > **[OPP, Montreal police nab 31 in Project Volcano, aimed at Ontario car theft...](https://torontosun.com/news/provincial/opp-montreal-police-nab-31-in-project-volcano-aimed-at-ontario-car-theft-suspects)** > > Many of those targeted in Project Volcano are Quebecers who had been arrested in Ontario for vehicle theft and other crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Slight\_Off\_Hand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@Slight\_Off\_Hand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slight_Off_Hand)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2024, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toronto-police-advise-residents-to-make-car-keys-easily-available-to-thieves/999037/93 "2024-03-23T13:34:07Z")
My company just started using a specific tracker as a rating factor on the comprehensive coverage in ON. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toronto-police-advise-residents-to-make-car-keys-easily-available-to-thieves/999037.md?page=4)