# Torricelli quits Senate race - what does NJ Law say about replacing his name? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 1, 2002, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torricelli-quits-senate-race-what-does-nj-law-say-about-replacing-his-name/130391 "2002-10-01T13:25:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torricelli-quits-senate-race-what-does-nj-law-say-about-replacing-his-name/130391/81 "2002-10-03T01:26:26Z")
I just heard Newt Gingrich on Hannity and Combes say that there’s a federal law requiring that absentee ballots be mailed to the military 35 days before an election. Sounds like grounds for a possible SCOTUS overrule. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torricelli-quits-senate-race-what-does-nj-law-say-about-replacing-his-name/130391/82 "2002-10-03T01:36:15Z")
Great, mail 'em the existing ballots. Problem solved. ---
**Author:** ![IndependentVoter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e9a140/32.png) [@IndependentVoter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IndependentVoter)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torricelli-quits-senate-race-what-does-nj-law-say-about-replacing-his-name/130391/83 "2002-10-03T01:51:18Z")
About 10% of them have already been mailed, and it is now closer than 35 days. I assume the rest have not been mailed due to the restraining order issued Monday by the SCONJ. If you switch the candidate, you can’t automatically assume that a vote for Torrecelli goes to Lautenberg. There will be at least another week to mail out corrected ballots. This is a BS situation caused by people who are willing to do anything in order not to lose. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torricelli-quits-senate-race-what-does-nj-law-say-about-replacing-his-name/130391/84 "2002-10-03T01:55:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > Yay, what fun! It’s 2000 all over again! Let’s watch as the R’s gleefully abandon federalism to see if they can vanquish the terrible threat of democracy one more time! This seems like an appropriate moment to link to a certain recent [Tom the Dancing Bug](http://www.salon.com/comics/boll/2002/09/05/boll/index.html) cartoon. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torricelli-quits-senate-race-what-does-nj-law-say-about-replacing-his-name/130391/85 "2002-10-03T02:08:12Z")
This ruling is disgusting. But even more disgusting is the posturing by the Democrats on this board. Are you all so partisan that you can’t see a slimeball tactic when it’s in front of your face? The fact is, the only reason the voters are being ‘denied’ a choice is because the Democrats themselves are taking it away from the people. Torricelli’s problems were known long ago. The Democrats should have punted him. Instead, they coldly calculated that even though he’s a crook, he’d have enough of a base to carry the election anyway. So they let him stay in office. Is there ANYONE here who thinks that Torricelli would be resigning if he was ahead in the polls? Of course not. He’s resigned specifically to create a situataion in which he could be replaced. And he made the decision after ‘consulting with major Democratic Leaders’. And I love this: > [@](#): > > “It’s almost as if the arguing parties - the Democrats and Republicans - are irrelevant in the legal analysis,” said Richard Perr, an election law professor at Rutgers University Law School. “The focus is on the voters right to cast a meaningful vote and they can’t do that if only one name is on the ballot.” There are FIVE other names on the ballot. Four of them from national parties. I wasn’t aware that the only ‘choice’ was between Democrats and Republicans. There are very good reasons to prevent switching candidates close to an election. The public needs time to study candidates. You know what will happen now? Candidates with great public appeal but with ugly skeletons in the closet will rig it so that a ‘stand-in’ runs, then resigns as close as possible to the election. To counter that, state parties will scramble to mail ballots out immediately after the election freeze. Or ones that want a switch will drag their feet. This is going to create an awful lot of new backroom manoevering around election time. But I suppose some people think that if this means a Democrat gets elected, it’s all worth it, right? Oh well. Torricelli is going out in character. A very sleazy end to the career of a very sleazy man. But not the Democrats are wallowing in the sleaze with him. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torricelli-quits-senate-race-what-does-nj-law-say-about-replacing-his-name/130391/86 "2002-10-03T02:10:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IndependentVoter \* > If you switch the candidate, you can’t automatically assume that a vote for Torrecelli goes to Lautenberg. Of course not. A vote for Torrecelli is a vote for Torrecelli. But who gives a damn, since the number of ballots mailed is small, and Democratic voters will just request a new ballot or write in Lautenberg anway? > [@](#): > > This is a BS situation caused by people who are willing to do anything in order not to lose. That’s right, folks. Politicians play to win. Next on _Stunning Revelations_: Capitalists are motivated by profit. Who knew? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torricelli-quits-senate-race-what-does-nj-law-say-about-replacing-his-name/130391/87 "2002-10-03T02:18:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > Are you all so partisan that you can’t see a slimeball tactic when it’s in front of your face? Whay slimeball tactic? Putting a guy’s name on a ballot? I know you R’s hate democracy, but please understand that we Democrats happen to be pretty keen on the concept. > [@](#): > > The fact is, the only reason the voters are being ‘denied’ a choice is because the Democrats themselves are taking it away from the people. No, Torricelli’s taking it away from the people. If he hadn’t quit, he’d still be on the ballot. That his resignation makes Republican heads explode is just an amusing side effect of that resignation. > [@](#): > > Is there ANYONE here who thinks that Torricelli would be resigning if he was ahead in the polls? Not me. But then again, darn few nominees of any stripe would quit if they were behind in the polls. You’re insane if you think this is going to become a regular feature of American politics. Oh, wait, you’re seriously suggesting that’s going to happen, aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![IndependentVoter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e9a140/32.png) [@IndependentVoter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IndependentVoter)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torricelli-quits-senate-race-what-does-nj-law-say-about-replacing-his-name/130391/88 "2002-10-03T02:22:18Z")
It’s the second time this election cycle. Cuomo dropped out very late in the NY Democratic pimary to avoid a loss. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torricelli-quits-senate-race-what-does-nj-law-say-about-replacing-his-name/130391/89 "2002-10-03T02:29:34Z")
Note the difference between _nominee_ and _candidate for party primary_. The latter drop out all the time when they think they won’t win–even Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torricelli-quits-senate-race-what-does-nj-law-say-about-replacing-his-name/130391/90 "2002-10-03T02:32:16Z")
I think that whenever a candidate has major dirt discovered about him and drops irrecoverably in the polls, rather than just lose, he’s going to throw the election into the courts, with the help of the state party. In the past, candidates had to fulfill two requirements: The first is that they have to win a nomination of their party members. Then they have to win a general election. Now there’s another option: Run a candidate who can win a nomination, then pull him and switch in someone who can win the general election. The two cases are very different - nominations are won by appealing to the ‘base’, or the more extreme voters. General elections are won by appealing to the moderates. Let’s see how you feel the first time the Republicans run a pro-life candidate for nomination, then switch him for a pro-choice candidate who can win the election but wouldn’t have been able to win the nomination. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torricelli-quits-senate-race-what-does-nj-law-say-about-replacing-his-name/130391/91 "2002-10-03T02:38:13Z")
I’d vote for a pro-choice Republican, so I think your crazy, paranoid fantasy is just peachy. Thanks for the giggle! ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torricelli-quits-senate-race-what-does-nj-law-say-about-replacing-his-name/130391/92 "2002-10-03T03:24:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > **I know you R’s hate democracy, but please understand that we Democrats happen to be pretty keen on the concept. > No, Torricelli’s taking it away from the people.** As noted, there are five other parties on the ballot. Democracy would survive intact without replacing Toricelli. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torricelli-quits-senate-race-what-does-nj-law-say-about-replacing-his-name/130391/93 "2002-10-03T03:26:12Z")
Errr…only meant to quote your first sentence there, minty… ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torricelli-quits-senate-race-what-does-nj-law-say-about-replacing-his-name/130391/94 "2002-10-03T03:30:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\*What could they have appealed? The New Jersey Supreme Court is the final arbiter of New Jersey state law. \*\* Article I Section IV states that the state _legislature_ determines the manner of elections, not the state judiciary. The NJ legislature determined the 51-day rule, and the NJSC is not following state law. Quite similiar to the arguments in Bush v. Gore vis a vis the FLSC. The NJSC is being just as partisan as the FLSC, and they should be ashamed of themselves. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torricelli-quits-senate-race-what-does-nj-law-say-about-replacing-his-name/130391/95 "2002-10-03T03:48:21Z")
Perhaps you missed the point that six of the seven NJSC justices were appointed by Republicans, **milroyj**. :watches gleefully as another Republican head explodes into a fine pink mist: ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torricelli-quits-senate-race-what-does-nj-law-say-about-replacing-his-name/130391/96 "2002-10-03T03:50:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* I know you R’s hate democracy, Huh? In a _democracy_, the legislature and governor are elected by the people to make the laws. Today, with neither statutory justification nor Constitutional justification, my SC blithely changed the law, allegedly because they thought it might be an improvement. And, you accuse \*R’s of “hating democracy”? Do you know what democracy means? It sure doesn’t mean that a seven appointed judges are free to make any law they feel like. The word for this type of government is _oligarchy_. I agree with you, **minty** regarding the undesirability of jury nullification. Well, I don’t like judicial nullification any better. Both types of nullification are the opposite of democracy. Of course, the more basic problem is the undermining of the rule of law. I am aware that the powerful get special legal privileges, but I don’t like to see it rubbed in my face. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torricelli-quits-senate-race-what-does-nj-law-say-about-replacing-his-name/130391/97 "2002-10-03T04:06:21Z")
No, in a _democracy_, the people vote. You’re describing a democratic republic, with the emphasis on republic. Me, I think the democratic part is pretty damn fundamental. As, what’s wrong, 'Pubbies? You afraid the people of New Jersey might elect somebody other than your guy? Tough luck, that. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torricelli-quits-senate-race-what-does-nj-law-say-about-replacing-his-name/130391/98 "2002-10-03T04:07:11Z")
“Aw” ---
**Author:** ![I\_am\_Sparticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@I\_am\_Sparticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_am_Sparticus)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torricelli-quits-senate-race-what-does-nj-law-say-about-replacing-his-name/130391/99 "2002-10-03T04:10:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Threadkiller \* > \*\*From your cite:Assumption: this quote actually reflects what Richard Perr actually said. > > Where do they dig up these “experts?” As has been brought up on this thread (and even eluded to in the quoted article) there _is_ more than one choice, even without Torricelli. > > There may be real reasons why the Democrats’ issue is a legally valid one but this “expert” (the only independent legal source sited in the article) made himself look like a fool defending it. \*\* Yet he was dead on right. Imagine that. Anyhoo, if you are really interested, they get these experts by having them in their rolodex and calling them whenever an issue in their area of expertise comes up. Some profs like to gab, some don’t. But over time the idea is to build a list of sources who can provide you quotes for your copy. If they turn out to be right, all the better. Having been a newspaperman and a source, its all in a days work. I would also point out that the view the Prof expressed seemed based on a sound argument. Nor do I think that any of the time limits are a problem here (and apparently the NJSC agrees with me) because there are no prohibitions. It is entirely possible that the USSC will try to interfere as it did in Bush v. Gore, following that “precedent”, but I suspect only one or two of them have the balls to stick their soft parts in the ringer again. I’d guess Scalia is the most likely, maybe Thomas following Scalia. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torricelli-quits-senate-race-what-does-nj-law-say-about-replacing-his-name/130391/100 "2002-10-03T05:02:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\*No, in a _democracy_, the people vote. You’re describing a democratic republic, with the emphasis on republic. Me, I think the democratic part is pretty damn fundamental. > > As, what’s wrong, 'Pubbies? You afraid the people of New Jersey might elect somebody other than your guy? Tough luck, that. \*\* There are FIVE NAMES on the ballot excluding Torecelli/Lautenberg. The people have a choice. Or are third party candidates illegitimate choices for a voter to make? Does “choice” only equate to a choice between a Republican or a Democrat? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torricelli-quits-senate-race-what-does-nj-law-say-about-replacing-his-name/130391.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/torricelli-quits-senate-race-what-does-nj-law-say-about-replacing-his-name/130391.md?page=6)