# Toss up your reasons NOT to allow concealed carry, and I\`ll (heh) shoot them down. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 4, 2004, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toss-up-your-reasons-not-to-allow-concealed-carry-and-i-ll-heh-shoot-them-down/227437 "2004-02-04T04:02:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toss-up-your-reasons-not-to-allow-concealed-carry-and-i-ll-heh-shoot-them-down/227437/21 "2004-02-04T15:39:14Z")
> [@Weird\_AL\_Einstein](#): > > Of course, which is why the Article reads: “The Right of the States to have Well Regulated Militias shall not be infringed.” If they had wanted to protect the “right of the people” to “keep and bear arms”, that’s what they would have written. > > That notwithstanding, I think **Crafter\_Man** asks a very good question… Is this a whoosh? Amendment II A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toss-up-your-reasons-not-to-allow-concealed-carry-and-i-ll-heh-shoot-them-down/227437/22 "2004-02-04T15:40:41Z")
> [@aahala](#): > > The presumed purpose for carrying a concealed weapon is defense. Presumed by whom? You? > [@aahala](#): > > In MOST cases, it’s not effective. Cite? (you’re wrong. 2.5 million DGU’s a year wrong) > [@aahala](#): > > Most attacks are not announced in advance, what’s the chances you could use the gun effectively if surprised? Cite? Most attacks begin with converstation and are predictable. > [@aahala](#): > > Second, concealed weapons have almost no deterrent value. Cite? If criminals know that potential victims may be armed then that certainly has deterrent value. > [@aahala](#): > > If a potential attacker can’t see the weapon, how will he know not to select you to attack. If potential attackers know that some of the population are armed, they are less likely to attack anyone. > [@aahala](#): > > (Actually, many if not most victims aren’t selected, they just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time). Cite? Victims certainly are selected. Do you think that a 6’3" 250 pound guy in his 20’s has an equal chance of being attacked as a single woman or elderly person on the street at night? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toss-up-your-reasons-not-to-allow-concealed-carry-and-i-ll-heh-shoot-them-down/227437/23 "2004-02-04T15:47:51Z")
> [@Ilsa\_Lund](#): > > Is this a whoosh? Yes, I’m sure that **Wierd Al** was being sarcastic. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toss-up-your-reasons-not-to-allow-concealed-carry-and-i-ll-heh-shoot-them-down/227437/24 "2004-02-04T15:48:49Z")
> [@Weird\_AL\_Einstein](#): > > Whups, missed this one: > > These may or may not be valid arguments against that specific law, but not against the _principle_ of liberalized concealed carry laws. > And, added on preview: > > I won’t dignify this with a response. > > “Could easily grab a gun” from a person carrying concealed, “concealed” meaning, of course, “out of sight”, meaning that in the ordinary course of events a “mentally ill felon” will not even be aware of the gun’s existence, or “could easily grab” a gun from a cop, who would be wearing a gun openly, in plain view, in a holster? > > Not to mention…“could easily grab”? Have you ever tried to grab a gun from someone? Was it easy? Or have you only seen it done on tv and in movies? > > I will also not dignify this with a response, except to point out that it belongs in the Pit. You, my friend, are a walking advertisement for “Bowling for Columbine”. The typical, prefabricated paranoia he’s talking about. There is no reason whatsoever for a normal citizen to carry a piece…unless, of course, you live smack dab between the Crips and the Bloods. Are you constantly accosted by criminals? Are they coming through your windows every night? Do you get mugged on a daily basis on your mass transit system? I’ll tell you what WILL happen. The same criminal that messes with the unarmed citizen will mess with you, and you won’t have the time or mental wherewithall to un-conceal your gun and use it on him. In fact, you’ll probably end up blowing away someone you know and love. Sure, once in a while, all circumstances will be perfect and the gun concealer will “get his man”. But mostly, he won’t. Bet on it. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toss-up-your-reasons-not-to-allow-concealed-carry-and-i-ll-heh-shoot-them-down/227437/25 "2004-02-04T15:57:39Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > You, my friend, are a walking advertisement for “Bowling for Columbine”. The typical, prefabricated paranoia he’s talking about. There is no reason whatsoever for a normal citizen to carry a piece…unless, of course, you live smack dab between the Crips and the Bloods. Are you constantly accosted by criminals? Are they coming through your windows every night? Do you get mugged on a daily basis on your mass transit system? > > I’ll tell you what WILL happen. The same criminal that messes with the unarmed citizen will mess with you, and you won’t have the time or mental wherewithall to un-conceal your gun and use it on him. In fact, you’ll probably end up blowing away someone you know and love. > > Sure, once in a while, all circumstances will be perfect and the gun concealer will “get his man”. But mostly, he won’t. Bet on it. You, my friend, appear to be a walking advertisement for those easily swayed by the ridiculous propaganda that is _Bowling For Columbine._ The world is a dangerous place my friend. Google some violent crime statistics. Just because it doesn’t happen in quiet little suburbias doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. I am the very definition of an average middle class white male who lives in a quiet peaceful place, and I have been stopped while wearing a red dewrag to keep my long hair from my eyes and asked if I was a Blood. Luckily by a Blood. Who then proceeded to tell me about how he had folded his wings and wasn’t actively banging anymore, and how the only people he had killed were three guys that had murdered his friend, so he really wasn’t a violent guy. I spend lots of time in the woods in the south. There are dangerous people down here. Drunk teenagers, or even wild pigs. People will fuck with you for no reason. So will hogs. Just because _you_ don’t need a gun doesn’t mean that there aren’t a lot of people who do. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toss-up-your-reasons-not-to-allow-concealed-carry-and-i-ll-heh-shoot-them-down/227437/26 "2004-02-04T16:02:08Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Why not respond to the points raised by your own governor? OK > [@](#): > > “We’ve learned that the bill prevents officers making a traffic stop from knowing if the person they pulled over is carrying a concealed weapon - putting the brave men and women of law enforcement in greater danger every single day.” They _already_ have no clue if the person is carrying or not. > [@](#): > > “We’ve heard from Sheriffs across Wisconsin who say they don’t have the resources to implement the law, and would have to divert their staff away from real investigations of real crimes.” This can easily be addressed. How do they enforce the current laws? What about this law will make their job harder? > [@](#): > > “We’ve heard from victims of domestic violence, who worry that the bill will give abusers one more tool to terrorize and harm their victims.” Silly, if your going to break the law then your not a person who`s going to go throught the process of getting a CW legally. Besides, you can _currently_ possess a firearm in your own home - Without this law. > [@](#): > > And just recently, we learned from the Wisconsin Association of Sheriffs and Deputy Sheriffs - one of the many law enforcement groups united in opposition to this bill - that the bill weakens penalties on carrying concealed weapons while intoxicated or under the influence of drugs. It reduces the jail time by a third, and cuts the fines by 90 percent." That`s fine. At least with the bill we`ll have fingerprints, records, registration, classes, ballistics, etc., for those who carry legally. If you fuck up, your out. > [@](#): > > "Not only does it weaken penalties for those with concealed weapons permits, but it also weakens penalties for intoxicated individuals without permits who are caught carrying other dangerous weapons like knives, and stun guns. " If that`s a major obstacle, then I`m sure the parties could negotiate. In reality your penalizing those who want to acquire guns legally. Those who obtain them illegally are not phased at all and will continue to do so. > [@](#): > > It seems the governor had some decent reasons for not signing that particular bill into law. I’m fairly ambivalent about the overall issue of concealed carry (excepting concerns about how the law may be implemented), but if a state is going to pass a law to allow more folks to carry a weapon for the sake of public safety, then bill ought to be drafted to gain the support of the police and sheriffs – whose profession is pubic safety. Don’t you agree? Right, and those are his opinions. He should let the damn thing go up for the vote and quit twisting the arms of fellow democrats who are in favor or it, one of whom actually sponsored the bill. I guess that`s politics though. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toss-up-your-reasons-not-to-allow-concealed-carry-and-i-ll-heh-shoot-them-down/227437/27 "2004-02-04T16:12:35Z")
**Kalhoun** , [http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:bzVPTlnLfNwJ:www.keepandbeararms.com/+wi+conceal+carry+bill&hl=en&ie=UTF-8](http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:bzVPTlnLfNwJ:www.keepandbeararms.com/+wi+conceal+carry+bill&hl=en&ie=UTF-8) Scroll down to - “Latest Armed Self-defense News Stories:” at the bottom of the page. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toss-up-your-reasons-not-to-allow-concealed-carry-and-i-ll-heh-shoot-them-down/227437/28 "2004-02-04T16:25:36Z")
> [@](#): > > There is no reason whatsoever for a normal citizen to carry a piece…unless, of course, you live smack dab between the Crips and the Bloods. Are you constantly accosted by criminals? Are they coming through your windows every night? Do you get mugged on a daily basis on your mass transit system? Do you have a smoke detector or fire extinguisher in your house? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toss-up-your-reasons-not-to-allow-concealed-carry-and-i-ll-heh-shoot-them-down/227437/29 "2004-02-04T16:30:03Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I do not have to _justify_ this to anyone, nor do I have to seek _permission_ from anyone, including the government. If you live in Ohio, doesn’t the law say that you do need to get a permit for concealed carry? ---
**Author:** ![Weird\_AL\_Einstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c67d28/32.png) [@Weird\_AL\_Einstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weird_AL_Einstein)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toss-up-your-reasons-not-to-allow-concealed-carry-and-i-ll-heh-shoot-them-down/227437/30 "2004-02-04T17:07:04Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Well, if we assume that the typical gang member involved in a driveby shooting I don’t care about “the typical gang member involved in a driveby shooting”, we are, or should be, talking about the typical citizen with a CCW. > [@dropzone](#): > > has not taken an NRA-approved marksmanship course and look at the number of innocent bystanders who are hit instead of the targeted person I don’t think we need do a LOT of research to conclude that an inexperienced person in a stressful situation couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn, at least on purpose. Nevermind not doing a LOT of research, you don’t appear to want to do _any_. > [@dropzone](#): > > My only problem with the concealed carry laws is that the requirements may be too low or poorly enforced and there is no follow-up. Which requirements, in which states? What are your standards for the way the law should be enforced, and for what follow up should occur? What states are failing to meet these standards, and what negative consequences have they experienced because of it? > [@bnorton](#): > > Please excuse the hijack, but will someone back up and answer a question I’ve always had about this whole debate? What’s the deal with **concealed** weapons? Why is that somehow better than wearing it on your hip John Wayne style? I’m not trying to be a smart ass. I really don’t know. I believe part of it is the thinking that if CCW becomes common beyond a certain threshold, criminals who wish to engage in contact crimes like mugging will be deterred by the fear of not knowing who might be carrying a gun, Thus, even people who don’t carry guns will benefit. Also, some people are just plain freaked out by the sight of a gun. I suspect this may well apply to some people right here in this thread… > [@Ravenman](#): > > Why not respond to the points raised by your own governor? > > “We?ve learned that the bill prevents officers making a traffic stop from knowing if the person they pulled over is carrying a concealed weapon - putting the brave men and women of law enforcement in greater danger every single day.” Cops _never_ know if someone they are pulling over has a concealed weapon. Remember that key word, “concealed”. And I would think that they would only need to know if the person they were pulling over had a CCW _permit_ if that subset of the population had a statistically greater propensity for assaulting police officers. Do they? > [@Ravenman](#): > > “We?ve heard from victims of domestic violence, who worry that the bill will give abusers one more tool to terrorize and harm their victims.” If we are going to make emotional appeals, then I can just as well say that the bill would give victims of domestic violence one more tool with which to defend themselves. But that would be wrong, because laws shouldn’t be based on emotional appeals, or what people are “worried” about. The burden of proof you have assumed here requires _evidence_. > [@Ravenman](#): > > “We’ve heard from Sheriffs across Wisconsin who say they don’t have the resources to implement the law, and would have to divert their staff away from real investigations of real crimes.” > > “And just recently, we learned from the Wisconsin Association of Sheriffs and Deputy Sheriffs - one of the many law enforcement groups united in opposition to this bill - that the bill weakens penalties on carrying concealed weapons while intoxicated or under the influence of drugs. It reduces the jail time by a third, and cuts the fines by 90 percent.” > > "Not only does it weaken penalties for those with concealed weapons permits, but it also weakens penalties for intoxicated individuals without permits who are caught carrying other dangerous weapons like knives, and stun guns. " I don’t have the facts on hand to respond to these. But like I said before, none of this is prejudicial to the _principle_ of liberalized CCW laws, only a specific way it is being implemented. > [@Ravenman](#): > > if a state is going to pass a law to allow more folks to carry a weapon for the sake of public safety, then bill ought to be drafted to gain the support of the police and sheriffs – whose profession is pubic safety. Don’t you agree? Should I? Have the police in other states also opposed these laws when they were proposed? If so, and the laws were subsequently passed, did their opposition turn out to have been justified? Or did they change their minds after getting the benefit of hindsight? Also, to what extent should the police have their way when it comes to laws affecting public safety? There are after all plenty of laws we could pass, that would enhance public safety by making the job of police officers easier, that we haven’t, because such laws would be an intolerable burden on freedom. > [@CurtC](#): > > My understanding is that in most states, or at least my state of Texas, you can walk around with a weapon unconcealed without a permit. Right? If that’s so, then Uncommon Sense, why don’t you just get yourself a belt holster? My understanding is that, in theory you can legally carry openly, in practice the police will arrest you for “creating a public disturbance” or some such. Remember what I said about people getting freaked out by guns. > [@aahala](#): > > The presumed purpose for carrying a concealed weapon is defense. > > In MOST cases, it’s not effective. Cite, please? > [@aahala](#): > > Most attacks are not announced in advance, what’s the chances you could use the gun effectively if surprised? You tell me. You’re the one trying to make the case that it’s a bad idea. > [@aahala](#): > > Second, concealed weapons have almost no deterrent value. Cite, please? > [@aahala](#): > > If a potential attacker can’t see the weapon, how will he know not to select you to attack… If enough people carry concealed, how will an attacker know whether or not _anyone_ is carrying a gun? See what I said to **bnorton** > [@Debaser](#): > > Yes, I’m sure that **Wierd Al** was being sarcastic. Correct. I should probably use smilies more, but I just don’t like to. Ummmm…😉 > [@Kalhoun](#): > > You, my friend, are a walking advertisement for “Bowling for Columbine”. The typical, prefabricated paranoia he’s talking about. There is no reason whatsoever for a normal citizen to carry a piece…unless, of course, you live smack dab between the Crips and the Bloods. Are you constantly accosted by criminals? Are they coming through your windows every night? Do you get mugged on a daily basis on your mass transit system? More Pit stuff, and it’s not even very good by Pit standards. Again I will not dignify it with a response, except to note that **catsix** made an excellent rebuttal to it. Way to go, **catsix**! Ummm…😃 > [@Kalhoun](#): > > I’ll tell you what WILL happen. The same criminal that messes with the unarmed citizen will mess with you, and you won’t have the time or mental wherewithall to un-conceal your gun and use it on him. Cite, please? > [@Kalhoun](#): > > In fact, you’ll probably end up blowing away someone you know and love. Cite, please? > [@Kalhoun](#): > > Sure, once in a while, all circumstances will be perfect and the gun concealer will “get his man”. But mostly, he won’t. Bet on it. Cite, please? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toss-up-your-reasons-not-to-allow-concealed-carry-and-i-ll-heh-shoot-them-down/227437/31 "2004-02-04T17:28:06Z")
> [@Weird\_AL\_Einstein](#): > > I don’t care about “the typical gang member involved in a driveby shooting”, we are, or should be, talking about the typical citizen with a CCW. I am JUST using them as a “control group” of people with no gun training aiming at a target. My hope, admittedly WITHOUT any research, is that the people licensed for CCW be required to demonstrate proficiency with their tool, both when the license is first issued and at regular intervals thereafter. Is there a limited life for the permit? Will all of the background checks be repeated at every renewal? These are things I would want in a CCW law, but as I said I am not against it so quit being so damned hostile, as in the following two quotes: > [@](#): > > Nevermind not doing a LOT of research, you don’t appear to want to do _any_ > [@](#): > > Which requirements, in which states? What are your standards for the way the law should be enforced, and for what follow up should occur? What states are failing to meet these standards, and what negative consequences have they experienced because of it? Jabbing at your supporters like that is a good way to lose supporters. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toss-up-your-reasons-not-to-allow-concealed-carry-and-i-ll-heh-shoot-them-down/227437/32 "2004-02-04T17:34:43Z")
> [@Weird\_AL\_Einstein](#): > > Cite, please? Check post # 27. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Weird\_AL\_Einstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c67d28/32.png) [@Weird\_AL\_Einstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weird_AL_Einstein)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toss-up-your-reasons-not-to-allow-concealed-carry-and-i-ll-heh-shoot-them-down/227437/33 "2004-02-04T18:04:53Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > but as I said I am not against it so quit being so damned hostile, as in the following two quotes: > > Jabbing at your supporters like that is a good way to lose supporters. I’m sorry, I saw you in a thread for people trying to argue against CCW and misinterpreted your position. You seem to be more interested in discussing specific details. I do think, though, that it was right for me to ask you what you think the standards for these laws ought to be. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toss-up-your-reasons-not-to-allow-concealed-carry-and-i-ll-heh-shoot-them-down/227437/34 "2004-02-04T18:23:27Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > **Kalhoun** , [http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:bzVPTlnLfNwJ:www.keepandbeararms.com/+wi+conceal+carry+bill&hl=en&ie=UTF-8](http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:bzVPTlnLfNwJ:www.keepandbeararms.com/+wi+conceal+carry+bill&hl=en&ie=UTF-8) > > Scroll down to - “Latest Armed Self-defense News Stories:” at the bottom of the page. Yeah, well there’s a dozen. Let’s all just freak the fuck out and start packin’. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toss-up-your-reasons-not-to-allow-concealed-carry-and-i-ll-heh-shoot-them-down/227437/35 "2004-02-04T18:38:49Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Do you have a smoke detector or fire extinguisher in your house? Well, yeah. What is your point? I’m not going to accidentally extinguish a family member to death if they come home late one night. If the kids find the keys to the smoke detector, they can’t blow their head off with it. It’s all about the odds. The odds are much greater that your gun is going to hurt someone you care about before it hurts someone who wants to hurt you. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toss-up-your-reasons-not-to-allow-concealed-carry-and-i-ll-heh-shoot-them-down/227437/36 "2004-02-04T18:41:31Z")
> [@bnorton](#): > > Please excuse the hijack, but will someone back up and answer a question I’ve always had about this whole debate? What’s the deal with **concealed** weapons? Why is that somehow better than wearing it on your hip John Wayne style? I’m not trying to be a smart ass. I really don’t know. Carrying concealed makes it harder for criminals to pick out ‘easy’ potential victims, since they can’t tell at a glance who is armed and who isn’t. Also, a surprisingly large number of people react badly to the sight of a hostered gun; carrying concealed allows one to keep a weapon on one’s person without unnecessarily upsetting these folks. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toss-up-your-reasons-not-to-allow-concealed-carry-and-i-ll-heh-shoot-them-down/227437/37 "2004-02-04T18:52:47Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > If you live in Ohio, doesn’t the law say that you do need to get a permit for concealed carry? Yes. But I do not recognize laws that infringe upon my inalienable rights. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toss-up-your-reasons-not-to-allow-concealed-carry-and-i-ll-heh-shoot-them-down/227437/38 "2004-02-04T18:53:09Z")
I have nothing against concealed carry in general, and I don’t know enough about this particular law to know if it’s a good one or not. There’s one point in this debate that bothers me though - If cops, as has been said, are already in the position of not knowing whether the person they pull over has a gun, isn’t it also the case that muggers are already in the position of not knowing whether their intended victim has a gun? Yet clearly muggings still occur. Why is this? ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toss-up-your-reasons-not-to-allow-concealed-carry-and-i-ll-heh-shoot-them-down/227437/39 "2004-02-04T18:58:28Z")
How about the potential for borderline situations to escalate into the extremely serious? I’m thinking your standard fender bender. Big dude in the car that got hit gets out and starts spewing profanity and violating personal space. The other guy gets nervous and draws Mr. Glock. Turns out big dude also has a gun. Suddenly a relatively minor incident becomes gunfight at the OK Corral. I know that there’s a maxim that “an armed society is a polite society”, but the downside is that someone gets to decide it’s OK to draw on someone who’s being verbally aggressive. Concealed carry means that there are going to be a lot of guns that are at least somewhat available – in coat pockets or handbags or wherever people keep them. What happens to the gun when you want to go into someplace that doesn’t allow them? Yeah, I bet there are rules that say the gun has to be locked in a trunk or a gun case or something. There are rules that say you have to use seatbelts too, and people routinely ignore them. The problem with responsible gun ownership is that a lot of people are not particularly responsible on a day-to-day basis. I think that having a gun constantly present means that there will be a temptation to fiddle with it/ use it. Not on people – just plinking away. But I’d predict an increase in accidental discharges and/or accidental injuries. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toss-up-your-reasons-not-to-allow-concealed-carry-and-i-ll-heh-shoot-them-down/227437/40 "2004-02-04T19:28:10Z")
American society has a hard enough time refraining from shooting each other when the guns are locked up! As Finagle said, there will be situations where tempers flare and someone will get shot for being verbally abusive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toss-up-your-reasons-not-to-allow-concealed-carry-and-i-ll-heh-shoot-them-down/227437.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/toss-up-your-reasons-not-to-allow-concealed-carry-and-i-ll-heh-shoot-them-down/227437.md?page=3)