# Tossing babies into trash dumpsters is wrong. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 14, 2001, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tossing-babies-into-trash-dumpsters-is-wrong/57935 "2001-03-14T12:34:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dal\_timgar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@dal\_timgar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dal_timgar)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2001, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tossing-babies-into-trash-dumpsters-is-wrong/57935/21 "2001-03-14T21:00:54Z")
i will not go back and take the baby out. SO THERE! Dal Timgar ---
**Author:** ![Cyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a88e4f/32.png) [@Cyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyn)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2001, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tossing-babies-into-trash-dumpsters-is-wrong/57935/22 "2001-03-14T21:03:47Z")
> [@](#): > > [\*\*Do you have cites for that, Cyn? \*\* Yes, I do. Maternal Newborn Nursing, Olds London Ladewig, pages 882-884, 757-758, 760-761. Scylla: if your post is an attempt at sarcastic humor, I question your taste. If it is an attempt at an inflammatory debate, I question your taste and your attention-seeking behavior. If this is your opionion, I question your taste, your attention-seeking behavior and the reasons why your mother didn’t expose you to the elements at birth. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2001, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tossing-babies-into-trash-dumpsters-is-wrong/57935/23 "2001-03-14T21:09:35Z")
Cyn: …And what do you question if you completely miss the point? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2001, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tossing-babies-into-trash-dumpsters-is-wrong/57935/24 "2001-03-14T21:10:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doctor Jackson \* > \*\*Do you have cites for that, Cyn? I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I have 3 kids and in each case we were told by doctors and nurses “Dress the baby for any given weather situation as you would dress yourself”. We were explicitly told that a full term, healthy baby has a fully developed hypothalamus and can regulate its body temp as well as an adult. We were further told that most parents tend to over-clothe their newborn and keep them warmer than necessary. > \*\* I can only offer my one experience but the class we took on the process of child-bearing at Arlington Hospital stressed the vulnerability of newborns to cold (and lack of heat regulation). The newly born were immediately placed under heat lamps while being checked by the nursery crew. When deemed fine and healthy we were allowed to hold her in swaddling clothes. When she was in the nursery (that first night’s sleep was the last we got for a while. We checked her in with no guilt nor remorse.) they kept her under a heat lamp as well, even whilst asleep. Bear in mind though, that the program as presented to us, stressed that this vulnerability was **extremely** short term. By the time Lil Baby Kate was on her way out the door at day 3, she was fully capable of taking care of herself, heat-regulation-wise, and the rules about ‘dressing baby to suit conditions’ applied. Anecdotal, I know. But it’s what I’ve got. ---
**Author:** ![sojourn26](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@sojourn26](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sojourn26)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2001, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tossing-babies-into-trash-dumpsters-is-wrong/57935/25 "2001-03-14T22:42:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*Fenris: > > Looking at tossing babies into dumpsters as wrong is a very narrow-minded and bigoted point of view. I’m sure you as a person do many things that baby tossers might find contemptible, and you wouldn’t like it they mislabelled you with a bunch of stereotypical mischaracterizations.\*\* What exactly is that he is saying that is stereotypical mishcaracterizations? > [@](#): > > **The question isn’t whether baby tossing is wrong, the question is if whether its wrong for you.** Attempted murder of an infant is never a right choice. > [@](#): > > **Deciding if you are going to toss your baby into a dumpster or not is an intensely personal issue, and it’s wrong of you to make judgements about people just because you don’t happen to agree with their decision.** No longer a personal issue at this point, now a public issue. That’s what happens when you try and kill an infant. > [@](#): > > **What right do you have to inflict your own personal high and mighty moral code of conduct on another?** Very important word here: moral. Or in this mother’s case, lack-of. > [@](#): > > **Do you think tossing a baby into a dumpster is an easy choice?** If Hitler was alive you could ask him on how easy of a choice it was to gas children. > [@](#): > > **If a baby tosser wants your input they’ll ask you. Until then you should shut up and mind your own business.** For the sake of the child, it should be **someone’s** business > [@](#): > > **Get with the program.** He is. Are you? ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2001, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tossing-babies-into-trash-dumpsters-is-wrong/57935/26 "2001-03-14T22:52:38Z")
The cynic in me guesses that the baby is either black or somehow defective. If the child was a well-formed white kid, they’d be keeping it and looking for some nice adoptive parents to give it to, but since it’s not they’d rather dump it back on the mother since nobody else wants it anyway. I pray that my cynicism is not well-founded. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2001, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tossing-babies-into-trash-dumpsters-is-wrong/57935/27 "2001-03-14T22:56:24Z")
What **Scylla** did was to take the traditional arguments offered up by pro-choice folks in defense of abortions, and substitute baby-trash dumpsters. the term is ‘irony’. hope this helps. (by the way, on the OP, some states, including mine- MI - have passed dumpster baby laws to attempt to prevent this, so that the mother would not be prosecuted if she leaves the baby at specified safe havens such as fire houses and hospitals. Yes, if they leave a child in a dangerous circumstance they can/shoule/are prosecuted for child abuse, attempted murder or whatever is appropriate) ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2001, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tossing-babies-into-trash-dumpsters-is-wrong/57935/28 "2001-03-14T23:03:31Z")
[Here.](http://www.english.upenn.edu/~jlynch/Courses/95c/Texts/modest.html) ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2001, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tossing-babies-into-trash-dumpsters-is-wrong/57935/29 "2001-03-14T23:12:23Z")
[http://www.english.upenn.edu/~jlynch/Courses/95c/Texts/modest.html](http://www.english.upenn.edu/~jlynch/Courses/95c/Texts/modest.html) If you still don’t get it, the idea is you see how false the arguments I’ve made are, and you disagree with them strongly. They are horribly evil. This same kind of wishy washy I’m ok your ok bullshit will make up the arguments as to why the baby should go back to her mother. A neuron fires in your brain and you will connect the two and assume that the latter is as evil and false as the former. I can’t help you with the neuron. 😉 Sorry for the hijack Fenris. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2001, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tossing-babies-into-trash-dumpsters-is-wrong/57935/30 "2001-03-14T23:45:18Z")
Scylla wrote: > [@](#): > > Looking at tossing babies into dumpsters as wrong is a very narrow-minded and bigoted point of view. Yeah! Tossing babies into trash dumpsters was one of the things that made America the great nation it is today! ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2001, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tossing-babies-into-trash-dumpsters-is-wrong/57935/31 "2001-03-15T00:18:47Z")
I just wanted to say that the title of this made me laugh out loud. “Tossing babies into trash dumpsters is wrong. Yes or no? Discuss.” Just hit me funny is all. stoid ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2001, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tossing-babies-into-trash-dumpsters-is-wrong/57935/32 "2001-03-15T00:45:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*Fenris: > > Looking at tossing babies into dumpsters as wrong is a very narrow-minded and bigoted point of view. I’m sure you as a person do many things that baby tossers might find contemptible, and you wouldn’t like it they mislabelled you with a bunch of stereotypical mischaracterizations. > \*\* Scylla, Your modest proposal aside, you sounded like you were quoting the very thing that prompted this. A local talk show host was discussing this, and people (women mostly…) kept calling in and saying essentially what you just did. Seriously: people were saying “how hard it was for the mother to leave her baby under the dumpster” and “How dare you judge her choice to do what was best for the baby and her!” It’s a sad, strange world. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2001, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tossing-babies-into-trash-dumpsters-is-wrong/57935/33 "2001-03-15T00:51:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KellyM \* > \*\*The cynic in me guesses that the baby is either black or somehow defective. If the child was a well-formed white kid, they’d be keeping it and looking for some nice adoptive parents to give it to, but since it’s not they’d rather dump it back on the mother since nobody else wants it anyway. > > I pray that my cynicism is not well-founded. > \*\* The kid’s white, as is the mother, and from all indications is healthy, happy and alert. However, a Mexican woman in Pueblo, Colorado did something similar last year (she hid her baby in the basement for almost a week so her boyfriend wouldn’t find out. Apparently she ran the washer and dryer constantly to cover the sound of the baby’s cries) and it also generated large amounts of outrage. If I recall correctly they didn’t give it back to the mom. I can’t find a cite for this, but I remember it from last summer and all the news media are bringing it up today as proof of “an epidemic”. :rolleyes: Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2001, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tossing-babies-into-trash-dumpsters-is-wrong/57935/34 "2001-03-15T00:55:37Z")
In all seriousness; Hearing things like that makes me give up hope. ---
**Author:** ![Spider\_Woman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Spider\_Woman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spider_Woman)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2001, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tossing-babies-into-trash-dumpsters-is-wrong/57935/35 "2001-03-15T01:58:21Z")
I did an informational interview this summer with a child protection worker who told me that the main emphasis in social services was to keep families together. In this case (and other cases) of the young woman throwing her baby in the dumpster, I wonder how the social service worker could determine her to be a fit mother, after she purposely endangered her child’s life? Who is to say that the next time this young woman is stressed or upset about something, that she won’t abuse the child in some other way? I agree with **Fenris** that this is quite strange. I wonder, if she gets the baby back, what she will tell him about this when he is old enough for it to get back to him (as it almost assuredly will). ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2001, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tossing-babies-into-trash-dumpsters-is-wrong/57935/36 "2001-03-15T02:24:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spider Woman \* > **I did an informational interview this summer with a child protection worker who told me that the main emphasis in social services was to keep families together.** And you believed her? Sorry. Damn cynicism flaring up again. ---
**Author:** ![Bboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ea924/32.png) [@Bboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bboy)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2001, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tossing-babies-into-trash-dumpsters-is-wrong/57935/37 "2001-03-15T06:11:12Z")
> [@](#): > > In this case (and other cases) of the young woman throwing her baby in the dumpster, I wonder how the social service worker could determine her to be a fit mother, after she purposely endangered her child’s life? It’s simple really, we aren’t talking about the social worker’s baby. ---
**Author:** ![Spider\_Woman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Spider\_Woman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spider_Woman)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2001, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tossing-babies-into-trash-dumpsters-is-wrong/57935/38 "2001-03-15T12:34:12Z")
I guess I believed her because she was telling me what to expect if I were to be offered a job like hers. But she was also kind of telling me good things to tell the interviewers, so it may have been just their “public” policy. In some cases, I think the social workers make the recommendations, but the courts make the final decision. **Bboy** , excellent point. > [@](#): > > It’s simple really, we aren’t talking about the social worker’s baby. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2001, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tossing-babies-into-trash-dumpsters-is-wrong/57935/39 "2001-03-15T12:46:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sojourn26 \* > \*\*How any mother can do the horrible things to a newborn that these such people do is beyond me. So far, this [case](http://www.nydailynews.com/2001-03-06/News_and_Views/Crime_File/a-102260.asp), is the worst case I have ever heard of in this issue. \*\* I’m speechless. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2001, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tossing-babies-into-trash-dumpsters-is-wrong/57935/40 "2001-03-15T13:54:37Z")
An update: The D.A. is apparently [pressing charges](http://www.insidedenver.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_134863,00.html) on the mother. She’s being charged with [misdemeanor child abuse](http://www.denverpost.com/news/news0315.htm) because the child wasn’t acutally harmed. 3-12 months in jail and $1000 fine for attempted murder? :rolleyes: Wonderful. But the social worker says the woman “regrets it.”, so it’s ok. And people (on radio call-in shows) are still discussing how men are unable to understand the hard choices that women are forced to make. And how this woman is a caring, loving mother who was just stressed. And how this deeply personal choice, however misguided, shouldn’t be _judged_, but we should try to _understand why_ she made this…unfortunate…choice. I am now officially sickened. Anyway, further updates as events warrant. Fenris [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tossing-babies-into-trash-dumpsters-is-wrong/57935.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tossing-babies-into-trash-dumpsters-is-wrong/57935.md?page=3)