# Total FUCKER fails to tell fiancee he's HIV+, marries her, and infects her **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 10, 2003, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-fucker-fails-to-tell-fiancee-hes-hiv-marries-her-and-infects-her/180820 "2003-06-10T10:12:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-fucker-fails-to-tell-fiancee-hes-hiv-marries-her-and-infects-her/180820/21 "2003-06-10T19:45:10Z")
IF nothing at all else - the asshole greatly effected the quality (and potentially, the quantity) of her future. Yes, with proper (expensive) medications, HIV+ is not what it was a decade ago, however, the quality of life is greatly affected. Employment, health insurances, social relationships, all are greatly affected. ---
**Author:** ![Fin\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@Fin\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fin_man)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-fucker-fails-to-tell-fiancee-hes-hiv-marries-her-and-infects-her/180820/22 "2003-06-10T19:53:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Venoma \* > \*\*So, hypothetically, if a psychotic medical professional knowingly injected a patient with HIV+ body fluids in order to infect them with the virus - would they be a murderer or an ass? > > The only difference here is the means of transmission - and the fact that this guy supposedly LOVED his wife and instead sentenced her to a horrible death. Yes, people die sooner or later - but if I had the option of dying by impacting my skull while skydiving or dying due to aids-related cancer, pneumonia, or various other causes related to that disease, I know which I’d choose.\*\* I think the big difference is motive. Hypothetically, you drive your car onto a sidewalk to kill pedestrians versus, you have a heat-attack and you drive your car onto a sidewalk and kill pedestrians. Two different events. IMHO, one is a crime and one is an accident. Now I’m not saying what this guy did was an accident but your hypothetical, the only reason that comes to mind is the guy wants to kill people. The man that infected his fiancee could have 1) been in denial and therefore not of right mind, 2) thought the test was wrong so he was ok, 3) decided if he was going to die early, so was she. The first two, to me, imply that he is a sad man in need of mental health. The last, he is a cruel fuck. However, we don’t know why he did what he did. Unless I find more facts about the case, I think the guy was an ass but not a murderer (but I could be wrong) ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-fucker-fails-to-tell-fiancee-hes-hiv-marries-her-and-infects-her/180820/23 "2003-06-10T20:09:03Z")
affected, wring, affected. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-fucker-fails-to-tell-fiancee-hes-hiv-marries-her-and-infects-her/180820/24 "2003-06-10T20:12:00Z")
(hey I got 2 out of 3 right…) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-fucker-fails-to-tell-fiancee-hes-hiv-marries-her-and-infects-her/180820/25 "2003-06-10T20:36:49Z")
A murderer must kill in order to be a murderer. If you have the intention to kill, but, through accident or incompetence, fail to actually kill, then you’re an attempted murderer. If you don’t have the intention to kill, but do something that’s so unbelievably reckless and dangerous as to be likely to kill, and it kills, then you’re a manslaughterer. Since manslaughter is a general intent crime, there is no “attempted manslaughter.” But various jurisdictions have reckless endangerment laws that apply. Some jurisdictions may have crimes other than “manslauighter” which more closely fit the circumstances described here. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-fucker-fails-to-tell-fiancee-hes-hiv-marries-her-and-infects-her/180820/26 "2003-06-10T20:48:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > \*\*What the fuck is stupid about my post, Hastur? The guy knew he had a disease WHICH. HAS. NO. CURE. and he infected someone with the disease that has no cure. In effect, killing her and KNOWING DAMN WELL it will kill her. \*\* There was nothing stupid about your post, I was commenting on him. You have no idea of his education, knowledge, or intelligence. You also cannot accurately know his intent. You are presuming a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-fucker-fails-to-tell-fiancee-hes-hiv-marries-her-and-infects-her/180820/27 "2003-06-10T20:55:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Venoma \* > \*\*So, hypothetically, if a psychotic medical professional knowingly injected a patient with HIV+ body fluids in order to infect them with the virus - would they be a murderer or an ass? > > The only difference here is the means of transmission - and the fact that this guy supposedly LOVED his wife and instead sentenced her to a horrible death. Yes, people die sooner or later - but if I had the option of dying by impacting my skull while skydiving or dying due to aids-related cancer, pneumonia, or various other causes related to that disease, I know which I’d choose. > > I’d like to know why Hastur thinks that fear and stupidity has anything to do with condemning this man. \*\* I’d like to know why you and jarbaby keep referring to me as my former username. :dubious: Yes, there is a potential for a death that is long and painful. A potential. Treatment for HIV is quantum leaps better than it was ten years ago. Both you and jarbaby are pre-supposing a great deal about the mental workings of this man, and that you have insight into his reasons and understandings of his disease. As she didn’t know he was infected, and I’d assume that he wasn’t taking any sort of drug cocktail that would betray his status to her, I wonder about his understanding of his status. Yes, because of the leaps ahead in treatment for HIV+ status, there are many who don’t treat it with the seriousness that it deserves. It has been treated by some as if it is an inconvienience that can be dealt with through drugs and diet. Still, I didn’t say that you, jarbaby, or anyone else criticizing him was stupid. I was talking about _him_. As much as you are assuming about this man, you are assuming about me and misattributing my words to your expectations. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-fucker-fails-to-tell-fiancee-hes-hiv-marries-her-and-infects-her/180820/28 "2003-06-10T20:56:11Z")
Thanks, Bricker. I’m glad someone else is reading the same information I read. What’s so hard to understand? If she’s not dead, he’s not a murderer. Yet. It’s not to say he hasn’t committed a heinous crime, but at this point, it ain’t murder. And it may never be murder. Aren’t there people who have already lived with the virus for like 20 years? Who knows what science can do. Jeez! ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-fucker-fails-to-tell-fiancee-hes-hiv-marries-her-and-infects-her/180820/29 "2003-06-10T21:07:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by avabeth \* > \*\*It amazes me that people are actually trying to blame the victim here. Did she ASK? Should she have even fucking HAD to ask? The guy had HIV! He KNEW. He should have the common sense to NOT HAVE SEX WITH HER and NOT INFECT HER. > Ava \*\* I don’t think she should be “blamed,” but YES, she should have asked when he had last been tested for STDs and what the results were. As should **everyone** who is sleeping with anyone else. NOT that her not specifically asking excuses one bit what he did. What if the situation had been that he had no idea whatsoever that he was positive. Wouldn’t people think that she should have asked him about his health status, just in case? That they should have asked _each other_? Isn’t that what people do anymore? My bottom line is that he absolutely should have told her the second he found out. And she should have asked him his STD status long before that. Again, I don’t think NOT asking excuses this guy at all. He’s an ass, no doubt about it, and if she gets sick and it can be proved that she ONLY got this through him, then I think he should stand trial for manslaughter. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-fucker-fails-to-tell-fiancee-hes-hiv-marries-her-and-infects-her/180820/30 "2003-06-10T21:09:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mockingbird \* > \*\*All of us will be dead someday. > > Pre-meditation is not obvious, but fear and stupidity are. \*\* Okay, I can see how my short response could be misconstrued. To expand on this: I do not think that from the reports that we can draw pre-meditation. I think that his stupidity is the most evident one, as he infected her whether he did or did not understand his disease. Fear, I would think plays a factor no matter what, as I cannot imagne keeping the fact of his diagnosis secret could have been without terror and anxiety. Now, it is possible for the doctors not to have adequately informed him about the disease, and they could have assumed he had a brain and had knowledge about HIV and the ramifications of his diagnosis. That they didn’t make sure and discuss it with him in detail could be a factor that bit them in the ass and led to this woman being Hester Prynned. The man who infected her isn’t necessarily a bad person per se, but someone who failed his partner through a variety of reasons that we aren’t privy to, nor should we be. I don’t know why some are leaping to judge this man aside from their own fear. ---
**Author:** ![Fionn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fionn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fionn)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-fucker-fails-to-tell-fiancee-hes-hiv-marries-her-and-infects-her/180820/31 "2003-06-10T21:15:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Venoma \* > \*\*So, hypothetically, if a psychotic medical professional knowingly injected a patient with HIV+ body fluids in order to infect them with the virus - would they be a murderer or an ass? > \*\* My lunch break ends soon, so I can’t dig up the cite from the Crime Library web site, but as I recall this has happened in the US. I’ll get a cite later, but I can’t recall how the doctor in question was charged and convicted, since his intent was to commit murder but his victim hasn’t died. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-fucker-fails-to-tell-fiancee-hes-hiv-marries-her-and-infects-her/180820/32 "2003-06-10T21:22:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fin\_man \* > \*\*I think it sucks that he didn’t tell her. However, I am concerned when the article says: What about doctor/patient confidentiality? \*\* In the United States doctor/patient confidentiality can be waived in some cases. If a doctor has good reason to suspect his patient is going to harm another person he has an obligation to inform the authorities. > [@](#): > > \*\* > But the question remains, did she ever ask the guy? It says in the article Not trying to blame the victim but did she even ask? \*\* Maybe I’m a weirdo but before we were married I never asked my wife about her HIV status. Marc ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-fucker-fails-to-tell-fiancee-hes-hiv-marries-her-and-infects-her/180820/33 "2003-06-10T21:24:41Z")
Bricker, by the blackletter, you’re right, of course. In my little world though, this misfit would be slowly lowered into a vat of boiling acid. See how he likes it. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-fucker-fails-to-tell-fiancee-hes-hiv-marries-her-and-infects-her/180820/34 "2003-06-10T22:19:44Z")
> [@](#): > > I am not sure what the priest’s situation is on voluntarily informing the authorities, if someone seriously dangerous and set to re-offend has made confession to him. Of course, if the person is set to re-offend, they haven’t confessed. Confession requires repentance. That was a plot hole in the movie _Priest_ - the fellow who tells the priest in the confessional that he is molesting his daughter (?) doesn’t repent, so he doesn’t confess, and therefore the priest wouldn’t be bound by the seal of the confessional. Of course, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-fucker-fails-to-tell-fiancee-hes-hiv-marries-her-and-infects-her/180820/35 "2003-06-10T22:34:27Z")
Thank you for the explanation Mockingbird, but I do believe ( and I know it’s a naive assumption I guess) that youd’ have to be an outback aboriginie with no access to any sort of written or spoken material to NOT KNOW that HIV+ is not something to be giving to your WIFE, whom you’ve professed your love for. ---
**Author:** ![Venoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c4cdca/32.png) [@Venoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Venoma)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-fucker-fails-to-tell-fiancee-hes-hiv-marries-her-and-infects-her/180820/36 "2003-06-10T23:12:06Z")
Sorry about the name switcharoo, Mock/Hast, it’s a weird brain function of mine - kinda ‘translates’ your into your previous incarnation because it has more experience with that (I’ve been spending way too much time online with many people under more than one name - easier for me to grab one label I guess, but I’ll refer to you as Mockingbird from now on, as that’s what it appears you wish.) And my confusion as to your intent was mostly due to the brevity of the comment - no harm intended. It was more of a head scratcher from my perspective. I agree - we don’t really know this man’s mental capacity - he would have to be quite naive/ignorant/mentally disabled not to know the seriousness of what he was going to do/did to his wife. It is possible that the doctors didn’t inform him fully on the means of transmitting his disease - but even then I have a hard time believing he didn’t know exactly what he was doing. Fear may have driven him to keep it from his wife, but I don’t think that keeps him from being a very. bad. person. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-fucker-fails-to-tell-fiancee-hes-hiv-marries-her-and-infects-her/180820/37 "2003-06-10T23:34:44Z")
I perused the Ohio Revised code on-line http://onlinedocs.andersonpublishing.com and I was unable to find any verbiage that directly related to the intentional transmission of a disease (AIDS) to an individual. This is, unless, the individual was involved in prostitution (soliciting) or assault against a correctional employee. However, the codes for Assault would, if creatively applied, cover this. In part, they assert: " § 2903.13 Assault. – Prior to 7-1-96 (A) No person shall knowingly cause or attempt to cause physical harm to another. (B) No person shall recklessly cause serious physical harm to another." I would say that the husband in this case “knowingly caused physical harm to another.” AND, the ORC stipulates that if, during the commission of another felony, your actions are the proximate cause of death to the victim, you are guilty of manslaughter. Thus, if this woman dies from AIDS, there could be an argument made. However, since AIDS causes a multitude of other life threatening illness (by suppressing the immune system- as I am sure you all know that HIV itself does not kill you, rather the myriad of other illness that the body is incapable of fighting off) you would have to get a doctor to say that the victim died, solely because of the HIV given to her by the perpetrator. It would be a hard case, and some new law, but it would be an interesting trial. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2003, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-fucker-fails-to-tell-fiancee-hes-hiv-marries-her-and-infects-her/180820/38 "2003-06-11T00:06:44Z")
I’m not sure I understand why everyone’s presuming she didn’t ask him about his test results. Just because the writer chose brevity over verbosity, doesn’t mean that what really happened wasn’t more along the lines of “The woman told the court [her husband led her to] believe both tests were negative.” From the way I read it, it sounded like they fell in love, decided to marry, went for HIV tests together before doing so, and he just lied to her about the results. If two people go to the doctor to have HIV tests at the same time, it’s much more reasonable to assume they did so for mutual knowledge and therefore had every intention of discussing the results. He is the lowest of slime for putting her life at risk and I do hope they charge him with _something_ appropriate for his crime. And when she dies, IF it’s of AIDS related causes (as opposed to a car accident or something), then I hope they re-try him for murder at that time. Fucking bastard. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2003, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-fucker-fails-to-tell-fiancee-hes-hiv-marries-her-and-infects-her/180820/39 "2003-06-11T03:56:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > \*\*Of course, if the person is set to re-offend, they haven’t confessed. Confession requires repentance. That was a plot hole in the movie _Priest_ - the fellow who tells the priest in the confessional that he is molesting his daughter (?) doesn’t repent, so he doesn’t confess, and therefore the priest wouldn’t be bound by the seal of the confessional. Of course, IIRC. \*\* What would be the priest’s moral duty if say, Man A had been found guilty of murder, and was set to be hanged, but Man B confessed (in confessional) to the crime. Would he be powerless to act to save an innocent from the gallows? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2003, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-fucker-fails-to-tell-fiancee-hes-hiv-marries-her-and-infects-her/180820/40 "2003-06-11T04:56:39Z")
I think the priest would refuse absolution unless Man B confessed himself. In this case, I say the man’s a fucking scumbag. I don’t care how “scared” he was-what a selfish motherfucker. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-fucker-fails-to-tell-fiancee-hes-hiv-marries-her-and-infects-her/180820.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-fucker-fails-to-tell-fiancee-hes-hiv-marries-her-and-infects-her/180820.md?page=3)