# Total number of major-specific courses for BS and PhD in STEM at U.S. universities **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 27, 2024, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-number-of-major-specific-courses-for-bs-and-phd-in-stem-at-u-s-universities/1007792 "2024-09-27T11:52:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2024, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-number-of-major-specific-courses-for-bs-and-phd-in-stem-at-u-s-universities/1007792/41 "2024-09-29T16:05:42Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > That’s if you have a research or teaching assistantship. In my case my employer was paying for my degree, and they did indeed pay the standard per credit hour rate for everything including the 30 hours of research/dissertation credits. A variation of this is tuition remission for university employees. My first job after my BS was as a lab tech at a university. One of my employee benefits was tuition limited to 2 courses or 6 credits per semester, whichever was less (if I took two courses that were more than six credits combined, the difference was on me). I did my grad degrees in the same lab where I already worked. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2024, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-number-of-major-specific-courses-for-bs-and-phd-in-stem-at-u-s-universities/1007792/42 "2024-09-29T16:43:09Z")
Per NSF, about 86% 2023 research doctorate recipients received tuition remission. And that 86% is for both science and engineering and all non-S&A. But it is lower for some individual fields, e.g., 62% for education. Chemistry is 92.5%, which explains why I never encountered anyone paying tuition. I’m not sure where those 7.5% attend; not anywhere I applied. And less than 40% of chemistry PhDs earned a master’s. [https://ncses.nsf.gov/surveys/earned-doctorates/2023](https://ncses.nsf.gov/surveys/earned-doctorates/2023) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2024, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-number-of-major-specific-courses-for-bs-and-phd-in-stem-at-u-s-universities/1007792/43 "2024-09-29T16:53:05Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > And less than 40% of chemistry PhDs earned a master’s. This can vary from school to school. At some schools, if you’re pursuing a PhD, at some threshold in the process they just automatically award you a master’s degree en route. Other schools don’t bother with the formality. Of course, it’s also possible to get a standalone master’s degree, and then to decide to go on and get a PhD (possibly with some years of a job in between, and possibly at a different school). Of course, once you actually get a PhD, I can’t imagine any situation where it would matter whether you also had an MS or not. Payscales, formal titles, etc. all depend only on the highest degree achieved. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2024, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-number-of-major-specific-courses-for-bs-and-phd-in-stem-at-u-s-universities/1007792/44 "2024-09-29T17:19:11Z")
I wasn’t saying you shouldn’t pay any tuition- I certainly paid! What I’m saying is that very few grad programs are without grants/TA-ships/scholarships/etc… unless maybe you’re getting some sort of very high volume master’s degree at a second-rate school of some kind. But yeah for a research PhD, tuition is typically paid, because you’ll be doing a lot of your work on some other professor’s nickel. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2024, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-number-of-major-specific-courses-for-bs-and-phd-in-stem-at-u-s-universities/1007792/45 "2024-09-29T18:28:11Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Of course, once you actually get a PhD, I can’t imagine any situation where it would matter whether you also had an MS or not. Government protocol droids (and their contractor HR brethren) have gotten excited about my failure to list the MS I got because I asked for one. But I agree. ---
**Author:** ![mozchron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mozchron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mozchron)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2024, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-number-of-major-specific-courses-for-bs-and-phd-in-stem-at-u-s-universities/1007792/46 "2024-09-30T10:59:20Z")
Heh. My graduate program allowed PhDs to get a masters degree by filing a form but my advisor refused to let me becuse it was, in his words, “stupid”. So I never got one. The program where now work does not allow this. Likely because the Uni would NEVER give anyone anything for free. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2024, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-number-of-major-specific-courses-for-bs-and-phd-in-stem-at-u-s-universities/1007792/47 "2024-09-30T19:04:34Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Of course, once you actually get a PhD, I can’t imagine any situation where it would matter whether you also had an MS or not. Payscales, formal titles, etc. all depend only on the highest degree achieved. Actually, this is not quite true. I was invited to spend a month at the University of Aarhus in Denmark and receive a month’s pay. When I got there, my host said that the pay was statutory depending only on the length of time since the master’s. I told him I had skipped the master’s. So he asked me when I would have gotten a master’s if I had. Since 3 1/2 years separated by bachelor’s and PhD, I guessed it might have been 1 1/2 years to get the master’s. He accepted that and that is what he put on the form. BTW, the master’s was the formal requirement to be a professor in Denmark. This happened in 1971 and the requirements might have changed since. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2024, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-number-of-major-specific-courses-for-bs-and-phd-in-stem-at-u-s-universities/1007792/48 "2024-09-30T20:57:07Z")
> [@bump](#): > > What I’m saying is that very few grad programs are without grants/TA-ships/scholarships/etc… unless maybe you’re getting some sort of very high volume master’s degree at a second-rate school of some kind. Not just second rate schools. I used to get 30 - 50 almost identical resumes every year from people who went through the USC MS program in EE. Clearly a money maker for the university, like MBA programs. > [@MandaJo](#): > > In addition to a few classes, there is genrally an extensive reading list provided by your dissertation committee. It will be basically all the published research they think is relevant to your research question. Its my understanding most programs require both a formal literature review of that list and ypu take a series of comprehensive exams over them. These are long free response queations requiring you to synthesize the research to answer a specific question. (typcially, you have a few days, I think). I had to do that myself, which was standard. This was well before Google, so it involved hours and hours in the library. I can’t imagine a committee knowing enough to cover a topic that is highly specialized. On the plus side, I got two papers out if this work. My wife went to Dartmouth for a PhD in biology, and part of being admitted was a guarantee of support. I assume the grant she worked on paid the university back, but you theoretically did not need an assistantship. And it is real money. When I was at Illinois we were strongly encouraged to become official Illinois residents and thus qualify for the cheaper in-state tuition. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2024, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-number-of-major-specific-courses-for-bs-and-phd-in-stem-at-u-s-universities/1007792/49 "2024-10-01T21:56:45Z")
Nitpick: “flagship university” has a specific definition, and different groups may disagree on which is a state’s flagship, but they are almost always the most famous _public_ school, excluding MIT and CalTech. In MA this is usually UMass Amherst, in CA UC Berkeley. “Credits” differ between schools, and especially if they’re on semester vs. quarter system so there’s no easy way to compare except what goes on when transfering. My undergrad was on quarters and a class was 4 credits. Undergrads at the school I went to for grad school were on semesters and a regular class was 3 credits. So by the end of the year, one school accumulates roughly double the credits and subsequently has higher requirements. In grad school we were generally expected to complete classes in 2 years, but after that you still had to take credits. IIRC the options were a “reading” course, research credits, and one semester credit for comprehensive exams/study. But really it’s up to your advisor, I was doing reading and experimental work and programming and writing every semester, regardless of what units I took. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2024, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-number-of-major-specific-courses-for-bs-and-phd-in-stem-at-u-s-universities/1007792/50 "2024-10-01T23:12:37Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > It could mean they are a teacher, where in many districts you can get a $10k bump in salary for getting a masters. My sister and brother in law both have masters in Biology and Physics respectively for exactly that reason. Both got masters part time from programs that were chock full of identically situated people. Yes, I dated a teacher many years ago who was in this situation. She was a few courses shy of a Masters’ at the time, and taking courses part-time at night. I don’t recall her mentioning a need for a thesis…? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2024, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-number-of-major-specific-courses-for-bs-and-phd-in-stem-at-u-s-universities/1007792/51 "2024-10-01T23:56:14Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Not just second rate schools. I used to get 30 - 50 almost identical resumes every year from people who went through the USC MS program in EE. Clearly a money maker for the university, like MBA programs. Sure, but did they have any TA jobs, grants, or scholarships while in school? I mean, I went to a mid-tier full-time MBA program at a large state school in a major metro area (_lots_ of part-time MBA students) and I still ended up with a TA job, a scholarship, and a grant. It wasn’t a full ride, but it was about 25% of my tuition. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2024, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-number-of-major-specific-courses-for-bs-and-phd-in-stem-at-u-s-universities/1007792/52 "2024-10-02T02:01:22Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Sure, but did they have any TA jobs, grants, or scholarships while in school? One or two of them had something like that, but I don’t know how much it paid and if there was a tuition break. My daughter teaches in a business school, and her MBAs are mostly from local companies and get no break - except that it is standard for the company to pay, assuming they don’t flunk out. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2024, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-number-of-major-specific-courses-for-bs-and-phd-in-stem-at-u-s-universities/1007792/53 "2024-10-02T13:45:58Z")
I feel like maybe there’s a distinction I should have made between full time grad students, and part-time, weekend/after-work students here. The former tend toward academia and skew younger and are who generally gets the grants, TA jobs, etc… even in fields like business. There isn’t the same expectation that they’re going to be as short on time and flush with cash as the night folks. The latter are more the money-makers for schools. They’re the ones they’re advertising for with the “executive MBA” programs that are every weekend for a year or whatever. The expectation here is that they’re paying their own way and doing this as an adjunct to their existing career. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2024, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-number-of-major-specific-courses-for-bs-and-phd-in-stem-at-u-s-universities/1007792/54 "2024-10-02T14:38:17Z")
> [@bump](#): > > They’re the ones they’re advertising for with the “executive MBA” programs that are every weekend for a year or whatever. The expectation here is that they’re paying their own way and doing this as an adjunct to their existing career. I probably know over 100 people with part time MBAs, and very few of them paid for it themselves. Either the company sponsored them and paid the whole tuition (typically Executive MBA for fast rising employees) or regular part time MBAs (e.g. three years of two nights a week) funded by a trickle of tuition reimbursement programs. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2024, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-number-of-major-specific-courses-for-bs-and-phd-in-stem-at-u-s-universities/1007792/55 "2024-10-02T16:40:14Z")
I meant in the sense of “not needing stipends, grants, or scholarships”, not that their employer paid for it or not. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2024, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-number-of-major-specific-courses-for-bs-and-phd-in-stem-at-u-s-universities/1007792/56 "2024-10-02T22:57:16Z")
Right, from the university’s standpoint, they’re paying their own way. The university doesn’t care if it comes out of the student’s own pocket or the employer’s, just so long as it’s not out of the university’s pocket. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2024, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-number-of-major-specific-courses-for-bs-and-phd-in-stem-at-u-s-universities/1007792/57 "2024-10-03T02:07:10Z")
Or, in my case as a university employee, the program’s pocket. When I applied to my PhD program, I had already taken their first-year courses and gotten A’s as an MS student in another program, had a lab to work in, and won some research awards as an MS student. Since my staff benefits covered my tuition, the program didn’t need to use one of their assistantships on me. When the professor I worked for and who was on their program faculty confirmed he was OK with it, I was in. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2024, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-number-of-major-specific-courses-for-bs-and-phd-in-stem-at-u-s-universities/1007792/58 "2024-10-04T17:33:54Z")
My apologies for my misguided, pedantic post. I lost the thread of the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2024, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-number-of-major-specific-courses-for-bs-and-phd-in-stem-at-u-s-universities/1007792/59 "2024-10-06T05:04:11Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > I don’t recall her mentioning a need for a thesis…? Depends entirely on the major. I went to a state university and a great many of my friends were eventually biology grad students, but the terminal degree was a masters. In CA very few doctorates are offered by the state unis, that’s mostly reserved for the UC system. Despite that we had a fairly strong research-oriented department and all the masters students did full research theses and the vast majority published papers from them. A few of them went on to doctoral programs elsewhere and became full professors, several leveraged their grad degrees into government biologist positions or private consulting gigs and a few became community college instructors which only required a masters. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2024, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-number-of-major-specific-courses-for-bs-and-phd-in-stem-at-u-s-universities/1007792/60 "2024-10-09T17:26:02Z")
In many sciences, they actively discourage a long ultra-formal thesis in favor of getting one or more published articles. We did not get such liberties in PhD (same program, non-terminal masters’) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-number-of-major-specific-courses-for-bs-and-phd-in-stem-at-u-s-universities/1007792.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/total-number-of-major-specific-courses-for-bs-and-phd-in-stem-at-u-s-universities/1007792.md?page=4)