# Tottenham north London riots **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 7, 2011, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tottenham-north-london-riots/591836 "2011-08-07T17:06:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tottenham-north-london-riots/591836/141 "2011-08-10T13:22:41Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > I read that as “Hitler”, which led to a worrying moment where I thought, hmm, that makes sense, but what did Adolf know about the consumer society? The little-known sequel to _Mein Kampf_ discusses conspicuous consumption and market globalisation. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tottenham-north-london-riots/591836/142 "2011-08-10T14:02:24Z")
> [@Quint](#): > > It rarely snows in London. > [@Quint](#): > > Especially in August. I have experienced snow in London in May. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tottenham-north-london-riots/591836/143 "2011-08-10T14:12:14Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > He didn’t say where he found these figures, but a British DJ over here on Bangkok radio this morning said he’d read there were 3300 more police out on the streets for the royal wedding than were out last night. Is anyone able to confirm that? Found out the DJ was full of it. The local media has been bandying about the “fact” that 5000 cops were out for the royal wedding but only 1700 for these riots. Turns out it’s actually 1700 _additional_ cops to what was out there already; the real figure is something like 16,000 cops. This will be useful to know in case you read or hear that elsewhere yourselves. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tottenham-north-london-riots/591836/144 "2011-08-10T15:54:16Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Saying “Either get this shot or you starve in the gutter” IS making it compulsory. > > What about the expected 3 in 100 failures per year? You do understand what “not 100% effective” means, yes? > > What about the fact hormonal birth control increases the risk of stroke? What provision will there be for the inevitable strokes in young women that will arise from this? > > And, as usual, it all about controlling the women - let the men run riot, they don’t have to worry about any babies they father, no punishment or coercion for _them_, right? Unless you get 100% uptake, controlling the women is more effective: 10% fertile men can pick up the slack for the other 90% easily. 10% fertile women can’t do that. It’s so obvious I don’t see why I have to explain it. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tottenham-north-london-riots/591836/145 "2011-08-10T16:24:36Z")
It’s obvious you regard the poor as sub-human, to be controlled much like cattle. Nor did you answer any of the other questions regarding less than 100% effectiveness and risk of side effects, some of which could lead to life-long disability or death. But then a few “cattle” are just collateral damage, aren’t they? It’s not like they’re _human beings_ such as yourself, right? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tottenham-north-london-riots/591836/146 "2011-08-10T16:37:11Z")
Can we also control the growth of the upper class who have fucked millions all over the world with their greed and corporate crimes. How about the same policy for all the families of the CEO’s that have sucked on the tit of the tax payer with their bail outs and tax loop holes/cuts which is costing the tax payer more than the poor. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tottenham-north-london-riots/591836/147 "2011-08-10T16:59:32Z")
Instead of birth controlling the poor, how about we (US and UK) severely limit immigration? Honestly, I don’t get the high unemployment take in more immigrants policy. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tottenham-north-london-riots/591836/148 "2011-08-10T19:22:40Z")
The army’s role is to break things and kill people. Which goes for all armies. They don’t do police work very well. And we don’t want a European-style gendarmerie, either. We leave that to Continental despotisms. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tottenham-north-london-riots/591836/149 "2011-08-10T22:13:02Z")
Well, perhaps the army could be used to stand guard and look fierce around various spots in London and affected towns, leaving the police to round up the troublemakers? These crowds seem more interested in goodies than bloodshed, so that tactic might work. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tottenham-north-london-riots/591836/150 "2011-08-11T00:35:46Z")
I find it hard to believe that this is happening in a city that went through the Blitz, but I’m an old guy, and an American as well. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tottenham-north-london-riots/591836/151 "2011-08-11T02:02:50Z")
> [@nicole1912](#): > > What would you do for the women who can’t use hormonal birth control? Or who just don’t want to? It’s not like the side effects of using the pill/the birth control injection are always small, and you don’t know til you take it how it will affect you. They’re just out of luck and should starve? > > I think the whole idea of not allowing people on benefits to have children is insane, to be clear - but the insistence on hormonal birth control suggests not even the minimum of thought into the practicalities has gone into this before fingers have started typing. If you’re going to propose ways to dehumanise poor people and strip them of their human rights, you could at least think of the practical issues involved and suggest something workable. I think it is insane to offer people money while they’re looking for work only for them to get pregnant and then require even more money. That might seem unfair, but there has to be some reciprocal obligation if you’re receiving payments from others not to increase the burden. In terms of options, what about IUD’s? Also, there is likely to be a male contraceptive pill at some point. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tottenham-north-london-riots/591836/152 "2011-08-11T02:19:26Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > Also, there is likely to be a male contraceptive pill at some point. Yeah, that’ll work like anabuse. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tottenham-north-london-riots/591836/153 "2011-08-11T02:32:27Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > I think it is insane to offer people money while they’re looking for work only for them to get pregnant and then require even more money. Do you have some sort of _proof_ that women collecting unemployment insurance becoming pregnant is a _common_ sort of thing? Or is it just fear the Morlocks might breed? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tottenham-north-london-riots/591836/154 "2011-08-11T03:16:50Z")
Tottenham does kinda sorta sound like Trollheim… ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tottenham-north-london-riots/591836/155 "2011-08-11T08:00:01Z")
I’m so glad we’ve got onto eugenics this early in the day. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tottenham-north-london-riots/591836/156 "2011-08-11T11:03:47Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Yeah, that’ll work like anabuse. That’s just man-bashing. Most men have no desire to put themselves at risk of 18 years of child support if a woman screws up her own birth control, gets unlucky, or outright lies to him about it. The reasons you don’t see a good male contraceptive yet are that there’s less funding for male targeted medical research, and it’s a harder problem since it’s difficult to eliminate male fertility without disabling male sexual function completely (You’ve heard of “chemical castration?” Some of the drugs used for that are failed attempts at male contraception). ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tottenham-north-london-riots/591836/157 "2011-08-11T11:24:51Z")
But what it comes down to is that if a woman can’t find employment she will never be allowed to have children, whereas a man, employed or not, will still be able to father children… and you don’t see anything amiss with that? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tottenham-north-london-riots/591836/158 "2011-08-11T13:41:29Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > But what it comes down to is that if a woman can’t find employment she will never be allowed to have children, whereas a man, employed or not, will still be able to father children… and you don’t see anything amiss with that? Actually I already came out against the whole idea of strongarming anyone male or female into birth control. I just get tired of men being bashed as irresponsible morons. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tottenham-north-london-riots/591836/159 "2011-08-11T13:55:01Z")
I do, too, just for the record - while there is a certain unfairness inherent in biology there’s no reason to intensify it or institutionalize it. That applies whether you discussing preferentially imposing sterility (either temporarily or permanently) on one gender or setting up a system and rules that make it more difficult for a gender to be a responsible parent. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tottenham-north-london-riots/591836/160 "2011-08-11T16:28:18Z")
Meanwhile, the looters are getting [bolder](http://twitpic.com/64dbgq)… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tottenham-north-london-riots/591836.md?page=7)